cdi_power

hey everyone

i have an 2001 mod e220 cdi with an 611 961 engine that is chiptuned.
what turbo an injectors do i have to buy to get ca 250-260 hp?
and where to buy the parts? turbo, injectors etc...
it now runs on ca 1,3 bar turbo pressure. how much can the turbo handle?
how much do the engine itself handle?

do the 5 speed auto transmision handle the nm?

best regards Niklas

tjwasiak

Could you write anything more about that 100mg limiter in EDC15 CDI ECUs? Our five banger did already 15kkm @ 98mg (1500 bar rail pressure - same as in C30CDI). Unfortunately gearbox (722.640 MB 5 speed auto) needs rebuild - it can not handle even half mg more. Also turbocharger is dying but we have so many other things to do at the moment... I hope it will survive at least till february-march 2010.

I was also asking about what have to be done to the non-AMG injectors to make them fully AMG beside nozzles - still did not get the answer. Our injector specialist told us they are fully AMG but did not knew about any tricks (or he did not like to tell me what he done to them).

I have poor diagnostic equipment for MB so I can not be sure if we really get 1500 bar rail pressure. Highest reading I saw was 1461 or something - not more than 1470. Our pump could be pretty worn (fuel quality here in Poland is not that good) but I assume ECU will complain about not getting requested rail pressure (I am not sure how big the difference between actual and requested have to be to trigger DTC).
I am thinking of any greater potential high pressure pump for EDC15 controlled CDI - perhaps that one from C30CDI AMG/ 400CDI or maybe the one from 420CDI (it should be even stronger I suppose)? Both can be mounted but they have an additional electronical connector and I do not know what it is used for? I need to know this before I will buy replacement pump...
What about rail pressure sensor - anyone knows if it is the same in EDC15 and EDC16 CDIs?

EDIT: OK. I already checked that EDC16 controlled CDIs have different rail pressure sensor. Does anyone know characteristics of MB 0041537528 (EDC15) and 0041536728 (EDC16) rail pressure sensors?

EDIT #2: Found rail pressure sensors characteristics. EDC15 sensor (Bosch #0 281 002 498) is 1500 bar@4.5V. EDC16 sensor (Bosch #0 281 002 504) is 1800 bar@4.5V. The only "small thing" is that in 203.(0/2)16, 209.316 and 210.(0/2)16 (engines 612.961, 612.962 and 612.967) you have to swap fuel rail to have 1800 bar sensor - threads are different (M12x1,5 on 1500bar vs M18x1,5 on 1800bar). Source for "1800 bar" rail for five banger is W211 2.7CDI (647.961 engine). I can not find any Bosch 1800 bar sensor with same characteristics and size as original 1500 bar

190Benz

anymore updates on that fantastic C200?

tuikku

.
Hi, for a long time.

Some days ago, I went quickly on dyno.
A litlle progress.
Turbo pressure peaks violency, so that´s why there is o "hole" in torq curve.
I was in a little hurry, so there was no possibility to fix it right away.
In road tests, charger control works fine, but not any more on dyno, where revs rises so quickly.
But 300-line is little closer, anyway.
I have decreased torq now, and little more fuelling in higher revs...
Thinner curves are from previous visit.

190Benz

Damn that looks nice!

I would love to see your car in real life!

But i am trying to figure out wich turbo will be best for a C200cdi.
A 270cdi GT2256V or a 32cdi amg GT2359V. A 420cdi GT1749VK is a bit over the top i guess?

What clutchplate and flyweel did you think was the most comfortable to drive with?

I am not trying to copy you but i like to do a little research before i mod.


Keep up the good work! Your w203 is amazing!

tuikku

Hi
Sorry for the late answer.

I am using 270cdi clutch/flywheel, it fits plug and play.
270cdi,s turbo is ok with the orig injectors.
To get the best benefit about the 2359, you need to do much more, than just put it in there.
Don´t work properly without reprogramming.

My MB is the poorest version, 200cdi man.
There is nothing to see in it ....

harkgar

Long time Mr. Tuikku. Your MB may be the "poorest" in displacement but the best in Creativity! I have been a long time admirer of yours but I am totally useless with my hands! The only changes I have made to my 2006 E320 CDi is a BullyDog tuning box which is good. The next step I hope is the removal of the catalytic convertor and the total deletion of the EGR. I have been surfing the net in the last few weeks and there seems to be a universal concensus that the EGR does more harm than good. A lot of loss of power and economy for marginal NOX emmission gains.

Can you recommend an EGR delete method or commerical kit that will not trigger one of these pesky check engine lights (CEL)? Thank you.

gaiex

You can do this at the ECU, but not sure that will close all 100%, but it's better than nothing and no need to change any hardware.

tuikku

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The only way to get rid of that egr-stuff, is reprogramming - delete it from program.
And, as gaiex said, no need to do anything else.

harkgar

Gentlemen:

Did you mean that there is no need to remove the EGR, stick in a block off plate etc like all those postings on You Tube? Simply by reprogramming the ECU I can achieve the same result?

Please clarify.

tuikku

.
Yes

It is possible to change the program so, that ecu asks only clean air.
No recycling gas any more -> so, EGR-valve will be closed automatically all the time.
Then, you don´t necessary need to do any changes to the car.
And it is still very easy to return back to orig, if needed, just write the orig program in there.

...Look for some decent reprogrammer there.
Someone, who uses WinOls, and not any editor-program, which are crap.

gaiex

I never know if the EGR valve closes 100% only by program, can you confirm this?

tuikku

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Yes, it must do so, otherwise -> limp mode.

After it is deleted for program, you can block it, or leave it, or do whatever you like with it, no matter.

harkgar

Thank you Gentlemen. This is very educational. The next step, put an advertisement in Computer World for a programmer!

tuikku

.
Hi
Yesterday I was on dyno again.
I have increased fueling rate (duration time) 5%, from previous visit.
Result was 3hp less -> 287.
And smoke.
So, with these AMG injectors it is not possible to reach 300hp.
Need more cylinders.

Nevertheless, I leave this car to my wife, and try to find 320cdi - 6 cyl in line, to myself, as a "hobby car".

harkgar

Please. If you get a E320 CDi I can piggy-back on your experience to get this car to go faster. I am toying with the idea of buying a MY2011 Ford Mustang Shelby GT 500. 550 bhp out of the box. Mileage is inferior though to the MB.

diesel2fast4u

just came off the phone with a local diesel shop, AMG injector nozzle is 89€ and to mount them 9€ each...
Available in 2 days

If anyone interested

harkgar

Do they fit the straight 6 CDi engine and what power increase? Have you tried these yourself?

diesel2fast4u

No, they fit staight into the injector that fit's straight into the engine.
I didn't try them myself yet, they are for an I6 320 CDI Ibought from a scapyard for a new project....

You need a diesel shop equiped for the job to mount them (over here they charge 9€ = +/- 13usd)

They flow about 30% more, how much more power depends on tune & turbo & intercooler...

tuikku

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Orig AMG,s flows that 25-30% more.
Just change the nozzles isn´t enough, it gives something 0-5% more juice.
You have to do something to the injector-bodies, too....

My old crap, W210 320 cdi -00, gives ++260hp, with slippery gearbox and orig tech.
Only changes were bigger cooler and 3bar map-sensor.

Micah / AF1 Rac

I think I have read most of the posts on this forum (and all of this thread, several times) over the last year or so before I decided to register and actually ask a question or ten. I have an 06' e320 CDI and now that the warranty is only weeks from expiring I am getting mod hungry. I have a fairly simple list of mods planned out and need some direction and/or advice from those "in the know" about tuning these engines.

I know everyone has an opinion about EGR and I have my own as well, I hate it, and want it gone, programmed out of existence. I would like to raise the intake manifold pressure to the practical limit of the turbocharger or intake air temp depending on which comes first (I am in Texas after all). After I finish the data-logging phase on the stock engine the catalyzer is getting cut out of the down-pipe, it is WAY too close to the exit of the turbine and needs to go. I like the intake, plenty of filter area, low restriction AND it actually filters out way smaller particles than any oil/gauze filter ever will, no changes here. I have stock injectors, if possible I would like to keep these while still going up in power by a decent amount.

Now that I have stated what I want I am on to the asking phase. I work in motor R&D in the motorcycle industry specializing in Aprilia motorcycles and dyno tuning which means I have some pretty strong opinions on how fuel tuning should be done. I am not a fan of the add-on boxes or piggy-back systems unless they are the only practical option. I am looking for a re-flash or eProm that has EGR deleted, boost pressure increased and fuel well matched to that increase in pressure. Ideally I would like a custom mapping session done but, here in Texas at least, I have found no options I trust when it comes to custom tuning my car. I am not opposed to driving anywhere from Guatemala to Canada to get it done right though. I do accept that I am probably not going to get what I consider to be an ideal solution so I am looking to you guys for advice on getting as close as possible to what I want!

I have seen Kleeman, Carlsson, Bullydog, and other "boxes" mentioned as well as flashes available from a couple of those. I have also found a semi-local shop that deals in Piasini Engineering mapping re-flashes and they have done a couple of base maps in motorcycle ecu's for me so I trust them enough to hand over my car/computer. Does anyone have any experience with Piasini Engineering? Does anyone actually know what the flash from them or Kleeman or anyone else does? Rail pressure, boost pressure, EGR...etc? This is the information I have been unable to find.

In the end I would like to see 270 bhp with astounding torque and little in the way of smoke...I can dream right! I do have live datalogging and EGT so I can monitor the data to stay safe on my own.

You guys have been an awesome resource so far, please let me know your thoughts and Tuikku, your work is amazing, you could probably make a very good living doing your sort of tuning in the USA! Short of the truck crowd I have yet to see anyone here do any serious tuning on the CDI cars. I am sure there are places out there, just not in my neck of the woods.

Sorry for the novel of a post...my introduction on this forum I guess.

240D 3.0T

Waiting until the warranty expires has no benefit. Modifying the engine will not alter your warranty except on the components you modify.

Very good. I'm glad to see somebody doesn't want one of those garbage "performance" filters!

2slowcdi

Micah / AF1 Rac
I had my CDI ECU remapped over in Fort Worth by a Upsolute dealer , I had run their program in a VW TDI for seven years with no problems.
But the program leaves the EGR alone and the top end is still 130mph in the CDI, but I have 34 hp and 51 ft lbs tq more now.
I have found a person in the DFW area that has a person that is remapping his TDI to run a intake and turbo that he is selling.
He is pushing around 260 hp out of his 1.9L 4cly, he told that the guy that programs the ECU for him can program any mods in.
I was at a TDI get together when I talked to him. I think I almost talked him into getting his wife a CDI.
I will find his business card with his web site and post it.

His web site is driverfire.com but it under construction so I called him one programer is on the west coast and sends him his own programs and he uploads them himself so I don't know how that will work. He did not get his wife ths CDI she got a new TDI.
He is going to call and let me know what can be done as far as the top end limiter and the EGR.
I take mine out on a track every once in a while and it would be nice to have a car that was at least as fast as my old TDI was.

tuikku

.
The problem with V6-engine is too small charger, the engine itself has big potential.
++300hp is possible, but it is too much for that turbo.
270-280 is quite "safe" level, and ~650nm torq.

In line 320cdi, 270hp/650nm is also quite possible, but needs a good remapping and bigger coooler, the original one is nonsense.


Little uppgrade for my own 320 project.
I have now orig. AMG charger, in there, new, with a little bigger compressor wheel, it is from garrett gt3267.

AMG injectors flows so much, that I need a bigger pump.
Orig. do not produce enough fuel.
So, new high pressure pump is from 400cdi, AMG uses the same one.
Pump is so big that I must do some modifications to my cars front, again, to get enough room in there.

2slowcdi

In the U.S. the 2006 was the last year for the in line six. In 2007 the 3.0 V6 started for the U.S. but here it is still a E-320 "Bluetec".

Your right about the intercooler, the one I put in my VW TDI 1.9L was the same size as my 3.2L Benz has now.