E320 CDi mod
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Joined: Mar 2008
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C200cdi
Thats why it is so difficult to compare,
no, it is practically impossible for common user to compare different chips.
We must only trust.
It does not seem so good, or what do you think ?
Most compares power, the bigger, the better (chip).
Personally, I dont think so.
For me, good workmanship indicator could be for instance that tuner limits the torque/power to certain level, which technics can last.
The fact is, that technical features makes the true limits for outcoming power.
No reprogrammer can go over these limits, in real life.
There is always a common sense explanation to every power increase.
Or if not, it is not true.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,482
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From: Portugal
'13 E500 Coupe AMG// '17 E350d // '24 E53 AMG
Here are some graphs for Analise, box Carlsson vs MBpower chip tuned of my car...
Carlsson announced 170Hp and 390Nm but where did they go!?? (164Hp and 348Nm)
Carlsson
MBpower
Carlsson announced 170Hp and 390Nm but where did they go!?? (164Hp and 348Nm)
Carlsson
MBpower
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Joined: Mar 2008
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C200cdi
.
Nice curves.
Especially torque-curve is good.
No peak, and max is over 2000rpm.
Max power is also in good place.
No smoke yet.
You had two different dyno-days.
Start levels are different.
Power increase is about same.
If the dyno tells the truth, it is an accident.
The power-difference between reference and tuned is important.
There are few percents fault always.
I am not going to explain, too many words, that I dont know.
Maybe some native-English can help.
Even couple of percents difference is quite noticeable.
This my car have over hundred dynoruns.
I have had very different amount of power, with exactly same consistence.
But I think, that 190kw, might be near truth.
Everything you want between 250-270.
I mean this, when I wrote start-level.
Nice curves.
Especially torque-curve is good.
No peak, and max is over 2000rpm.
Max power is also in good place.
No smoke yet.
You had two different dyno-days.
Start levels are different.
Power increase is about same.
If the dyno tells the truth, it is an accident.
The power-difference between reference and tuned is important.
There are few percents fault always.
I am not going to explain, too many words, that I dont know.
Maybe some native-English can help.
Even couple of percents difference is quite noticeable.
This my car have over hundred dynoruns.
I have had very different amount of power, with exactly same consistence.
But I think, that 190kw, might be near truth.
Everything you want between 250-270.
I mean this, when I wrote start-level.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
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C200cdi
.
Little about torque.
The chiptuning problem is, that low-end torque increases too much, easily.
More than flywheel and clutch can stand.
High low-end torque stresses technics very much.
So, it is very easy to have too much torque, and it is quite challenging to limit it without loosing max power.
But it is possible.
The highest torque is not the evidence of good workmanship, but the right amount of it is.
It is quite same thing about max revs.
When max power rpm,s comes clearly under 4000rpm, there is too long spraying-time or too little air-flow.
Practically, thermal stress goes up at the same time as max power rpm,s goes down.
Yes, little more power and much more smoke.
Turbo dont like that.
~20%-law, is, in fact quite good.
When you compares reference-level and tuned-level.
There are exceptions, but also common sense explanations to them.
Different shape torque curves
Blue = stock
Red = Chiptuned
Green = Well tuned
Black = Hopefully my engine.
I have tried to build that kind of torque-curve to my engine.
Enough torque to low revs, but the max in quite high revs, when engine already runs more smoothly.
Controlling the boost pressure rising speed, is one key.
Boost pressure rising curve = low-end torque rising curve.
When boost pressure reach the max level, fuelling level do it also.
.
Little about torque.
The chiptuning problem is, that low-end torque increases too much, easily.
More than flywheel and clutch can stand.
High low-end torque stresses technics very much.
So, it is very easy to have too much torque, and it is quite challenging to limit it without loosing max power.
But it is possible.
The highest torque is not the evidence of good workmanship, but the right amount of it is.
It is quite same thing about max revs.
When max power rpm,s comes clearly under 4000rpm, there is too long spraying-time or too little air-flow.
Practically, thermal stress goes up at the same time as max power rpm,s goes down.
Yes, little more power and much more smoke.
Turbo dont like that.
~20%-law, is, in fact quite good.
When you compares reference-level and tuned-level.
There are exceptions, but also common sense explanations to them.
Different shape torque curves
Blue = stock
Red = Chiptuned
Green = Well tuned
Black = Hopefully my engine.
I have tried to build that kind of torque-curve to my engine.
Enough torque to low revs, but the max in quite high revs, when engine already runs more smoothly.
Controlling the boost pressure rising speed, is one key.
Boost pressure rising curve = low-end torque rising curve.
When boost pressure reach the max level, fuelling level do it also.
.
Last edited by tuikku; May 2, 2008 at 06:21 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,482
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From: Portugal
'13 E500 Coupe AMG// '17 E350d // '24 E53 AMG
When I did the chiptune I asked to make the car similiar to the Carlsson box (first dyno) but to improve it at high rpms.
Off course it had improved in all rpm, and the car feels a lot diferent, much much better now.
Soon I will have new Intercooler and turbo, and then I will ask for different setup, better, but based on the one I have, few changes
Off course it had improved in all rpm, and the car feels a lot diferent, much much better now.
Soon I will have new Intercooler and turbo, and then I will ask for different setup, better, but based on the one I have, few changes
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C200cdi
.
A good friend of mine dynoed his car (E220cdi A) yesterday.
560nm torque, but only nearly same power, than mine.
He has little different program, more spraying time.
It gives more torque.
It really seems, that 240D.. was right.
So, this Garrett map is quite realistic.
I need bigger charger.
And I might have found it, it is already here, in Finland.
A good friend of mine dynoed his car (E220cdi A) yesterday.
560nm torque, but only nearly same power, than mine.
He has little different program, more spraying time.
It gives more torque.
It really seems, that 240D.. was right.
So, this Garrett map is quite realistic.
I need bigger charger.
And I might have found it, it is already here, in Finland.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,116
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From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
It really seems, that 240D.. was right.
So, this Garrett map is quite realistic.
So, this Garrett map is quite realistic.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
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C200cdi
That is not the problem.
It is compressor air flow capacity, especially under high pressure.
Problem, or problem .
GT2359 is surely a good charger.
I recommend it also to you.
Works very well, even with simple mechanical control.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
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C200cdi
.
Hopefully I have solved the turbo-problem.
I get Garrett 3067 VNT hybrid charger.
Turbine wheel is 1mm larger, than now.
That is ok.
Compressor wheel comes similar than this.
That is excellent to my purpose.
Hopefully I have solved the turbo-problem.
I get Garrett 3067 VNT hybrid charger.
Turbine wheel is 1mm larger, than now.
That is ok.
Compressor wheel comes similar than this.
That is excellent to my purpose.
Last edited by tuikku; May 10, 2008 at 07:46 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
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From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
Do you have any suggestions to soup up my 2006 E320 CDi (straight six, not Bluetec)? I do not wish to be too radical and want a daily driver which can easily be converted back to stock when it comes time to sell.
For example:
Bigger injectors.
Bigger intercooler (though I can see no room for a bigger one)
Single side exit exhaust immediately after the catalyst.
Carlsson tuning box.
Your comments please.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 66
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CLK 270CDi
Tuikku,
Do you have any suggestions to soup up my 2006 E320 CDi (straight six, not Bluetec)? I do not wish to be too radical and want a daily driver which can easily be converted back to stock when it comes time to sell.
For example:
Bigger injectors.
Bigger intercooler (though I can see no room for a bigger one)
Single side exit exhaust immediately after the catalyst.
Carlsson tuning box.
Your comments please.
Do you have any suggestions to soup up my 2006 E320 CDi (straight six, not Bluetec)? I do not wish to be too radical and want a daily driver which can easily be converted back to stock when it comes time to sell.
For example:
Bigger injectors.
Bigger intercooler (though I can see no room for a bigger one)
Single side exit exhaust immediately after the catalyst.
Carlsson tuning box.
Your comments please.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 5
From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
Tuikku,
Do you have any suggestions to soup up my 2006 E320 CDi (straight six, not Bluetec)? I do not wish to be too radical and want a daily driver which can easily be converted back to stock when it comes time to sell.
For example:
Bigger injectors.
Bigger intercooler (though I can see no room for a bigger one)
Single side exit exhaust immediately after the catalyst.
Carlsson tuning box.
Your comments please.
Do you have any suggestions to soup up my 2006 E320 CDi (straight six, not Bluetec)? I do not wish to be too radical and want a daily driver which can easily be converted back to stock when it comes time to sell.
For example:
Bigger injectors.
Bigger intercooler (though I can see no room for a bigger one)
Single side exit exhaust immediately after the catalyst.
Carlsson tuning box.
Your comments please.
As LOB says, reprogramming might be the best alternative for you.
With "hard" chip, that engine gives ~270kw, ++600nm.
And works still very reliable.
It is very close to charger limit.
Bigger injectors cannot give much more.
Exhaust pipe is enough big.
Bigger cooler is always a good purchase.
If there are not any tuner there, maybe then the only alternative is sent the ECU-box here, in Europe.
Your job is only drive and enjoy and make the front wheels suffer.
Charger is originally used on Hino-diesel-engines.
Trucks.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 108
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2001 E320 Avant turbo diesel
Hi, Just wondering are the parts interchangable to the point of being able to put smaller injectors on .. say if you wanted to save the planet and some money on fuel... and does the charger have a adjustable blow of valve if so where is it.. I would like to make my cars dump louder .. I am not to bothered if it sacrifaces a few horseys
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2001 E320 Avant turbo diesel
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
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C200cdi
Check air hoses, and cooler.
240D.. is right.
Any extra valve in air-hoses is against diesel engine working principals.
Diesel needs air-surplus.
Non-smoke bases on that.
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2001 E320 Avant turbo diesel
and when my pal was driving behind me he was saying there was allot of white/grey smoke when I had the hammer down.. I never get black smoke, or smoke at all at low speeds
and there is no venting at high speed..
its a shame its not in the design because it really is quite cool reving up next to a sti and hearing a actuall blowing off sound and then watch the jaw drop and you leave him in a cloud of diesel smoke heheh yep we are always picking on you STI drivers
thats what you get for driving a road going rally car
Last edited by ncd20; May 12, 2008 at 06:32 AM.
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 108
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2001 E320 Avant turbo diesel
ok I had a look under the hood and gues what I can see the valve mounted on a bracket and a actuator going to it from the turbo.. also a vacume line comes back to block off vacume nipples and on the bottom of that another vacume line goes down to a thing that looks like fish tank filter/fuel filter but instead of going some where it just has what looks like a peice of cork in it !! ??
The Valve is incrusted with oil and **** so I will steam clean it later!!
The Valve is incrusted with oil and **** so I will steam clean it later!!
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
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C200cdi
.
Same age engines are equal.
Only difference is program.
You can self check it here.
Same age 200cdi A = 220cdi A.
(Difference is in program)
Only real difference, that matters, is between same age 200/220 man. transmission models.
220cdi has stronger clutch/flywheel.
Same age engines are equal.
Only difference is program.
You can self check it here.
Same age 200cdi A = 220cdi A.
(Difference is in program)
Only real difference, that matters, is between same age 200/220 man. transmission models.
220cdi has stronger clutch/flywheel.
