E320 CDi mod
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
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From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 4
From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
.
New cams works very well. (260/260, 9,5mm lift, orig. ~2X210, 7,7mm lift)
Engine pulls fine from idling -> 5000rpm.
No more power.
Maybe little more torque, thats all.
Still something limits the power.
Only head porting undone any more...
Well, I´ll try that.
If that does not help, I´ll give up.
I am tired to work very hard to make new parts work well, and still reach only the "old" level.
New cams works very well. (260/260, 9,5mm lift, orig. ~2X210, 7,7mm lift)
Engine pulls fine from idling -> 5000rpm.
No more power.
Maybe little more torque, thats all.
Still something limits the power.
Only head porting undone any more...
Well, I´ll try that.
If that does not help, I´ll give up.
I am tired to work very hard to make new parts work well, and still reach only the "old" level.
Banned
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 5
From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
A double row chain is just stronger and can absorb more stress.
Yes, look at a 606 without its manifolds and the intake/exhaust ports on the head are huge. Probably due to cost and/or emissions.
Yes, look at a 606 without its manifolds and the intake/exhaust ports on the head are huge. Probably due to cost and/or emissions.
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
.
Cams are from local workshop. R-koneistus.
The "shape model" is VP5, exactly same, as VW enthusiasts are using.
And have rather good results with it.
I can recommend, engine behavior gets better, sharper.
Intake manifold is still stock, I forgot that.
I must think about it...
At least flaps are not "well come".
As 240D told, intake ports are surprisingly small.
Hardly forefinger fit in its.
Exhaust side is much much better, I don´t understand that.
The hole is there 34mm wide.
I have bought now two more heads.
The other is in "exploratory-use" only.
So, that the other could have as big holes, as possible.
I really want to have some real change now !
Intake
Exhaust, both sides are equal, and comes apart in one (34mm wide) hole.
Cams are from local workshop. R-koneistus.
The "shape model" is VP5, exactly same, as VW enthusiasts are using.
And have rather good results with it.
I can recommend, engine behavior gets better, sharper.
Intake manifold is still stock, I forgot that.
I must think about it...
At least flaps are not "well come".
As 240D told, intake ports are surprisingly small.
Hardly forefinger fit in its.
Exhaust side is much much better, I don´t understand that.
The hole is there 34mm wide.
I have bought now two more heads.
The other is in "exploratory-use" only.
So, that the other could have as big holes, as possible.
I really want to have some real change now !
Intake
Exhaust, both sides are equal, and comes apart in one (34mm wide) hole.
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
.
Intresting figure about MAF - sensor values (airmass).
Yellow: 2,5bar boost, orig. cams.
Red: 2,3bar, new cams.
Yes, they are equal...
No more air -> no more power.
This car is cursed.
Maybe I should stop coursing and start praying...
I sent the head to work shop.
Intresting figure about MAF - sensor values (airmass).
Yellow: 2,5bar boost, orig. cams.
Red: 2,3bar, new cams.
Yes, they are equal...
No more air -> no more power.
This car is cursed.
Maybe I should stop coursing and start praying...
I sent the head to work shop.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 4
From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
Is this called "porting"?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
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From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
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Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
.
No any news yet.
The difficult thing seems to be make the swirl stronger and get more air to cylinder.
I let you know, when there is something to tell.
I have done my first own remappings.
Driving now for my "own program"
This learning is just in the beginning, but it is very interesting.
Hoping, that I don´t need anyones help anymore.
No any news yet.
The difficult thing seems to be make the swirl stronger and get more air to cylinder.
I let you know, when there is something to tell.
I have done my first own remappings.
Driving now for my "own program"
This learning is just in the beginning, but it is very interesting.
Hoping, that I don´t need anyones help anymore.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 4
From: Aalesund, Norway
2015 E63, 1979 GD300, 1992 190E 2.6
E320CDI tune
Tuikku, congratulations with good results so far and condolences since you're not able to improve on them...
I have tuned my 2005 E320CDI with just a tuningbox so far, with about 255 hp and 570 nm on the dyno. How would you rate the following cheapish fixes to getting even more power? (but on my autobox, is it wise?):
a) gut the exhaust leaving just the rear (or none) mufflers
b) higher flow nozzles
c) larger propellers
By the way, did you ever post the company name for the larger nozzles?
And the tuningbox will certainly have to go when upping the power, but I don't want to start cranking up the air or fuel until I have the exhaust temp and pressure gauges hooked up, still looking for something that I can have temporarily or permanently in the interior. Looks like I'm ending up with a homebrew ARM9 with 3,5" touch LCD, 40 A/D IOs and calibrate myself ($ 200).
I suspect that getting the same hp/l as you've shouldn't be impossible, if the slushbox can take it. My friend who runs the dyno and tuning business has a personal best with a 1.4 Yaris tdi getting 204 hp to the front wheels. Otherwise he prefers Cummins I6 in his Dodge.
Bjørnar
web.mac.com/bjornarhuse
I have tuned my 2005 E320CDI with just a tuningbox so far, with about 255 hp and 570 nm on the dyno. How would you rate the following cheapish fixes to getting even more power? (but on my autobox, is it wise?):
a) gut the exhaust leaving just the rear (or none) mufflers
b) higher flow nozzles
c) larger propellers
By the way, did you ever post the company name for the larger nozzles?
And the tuningbox will certainly have to go when upping the power, but I don't want to start cranking up the air or fuel until I have the exhaust temp and pressure gauges hooked up, still looking for something that I can have temporarily or permanently in the interior. Looks like I'm ending up with a homebrew ARM9 with 3,5" touch LCD, 40 A/D IOs and calibrate myself ($ 200).
I suspect that getting the same hp/l as you've shouldn't be impossible, if the slushbox can take it. My friend who runs the dyno and tuning business has a personal best with a 1.4 Yaris tdi getting 204 hp to the front wheels. Otherwise he prefers Cummins I6 in his Dodge.
Bjørnar
web.mac.com/bjornarhuse
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
.
Hi Björnar.
I am closer that you might expect... in Finland.
Maybe the easiest is if you can get a decent remapping from your friend.
~270hp/+600nm is possible.
I don´t personally like at all those "tuning-boxes".
You don´t need to do anything for exhaust pipe, or cats, if they are ok.
Neither new injectors, because there are no "easy" alternative to have a bigger turbo.
And what you first need is a bigger charger and cooler.
I can send pm to you, if you need the address of injectors.
I had tested a lot during last weeks.
And it seems, that I have also learned something. (I do hope so)
In orig. program, max fueling rate till 4200rpm is 54.5 milli/1000 work stroke.
That gives 122hp.
In my car it is 135milli.
You can calculate, why...
Maybe the one reason has been (too) less knowledge.
...And there are little improvement in head too. (cylinder head)
But allthough, I get now all that fuel burn practically with no smoke.
The car pulls nicely, I am planning dyno-day.
Hi Björnar.
I am closer that you might expect... in Finland.
Maybe the easiest is if you can get a decent remapping from your friend.
~270hp/+600nm is possible.
I don´t personally like at all those "tuning-boxes".
You don´t need to do anything for exhaust pipe, or cats, if they are ok.
Neither new injectors, because there are no "easy" alternative to have a bigger turbo.
And what you first need is a bigger charger and cooler.
I can send pm to you, if you need the address of injectors.
I had tested a lot during last weeks.
And it seems, that I have also learned something. (I do hope so)
In orig. program, max fueling rate till 4200rpm is 54.5 milli/1000 work stroke.
That gives 122hp.
In my car it is 135milli.
You can calculate, why...
Maybe the one reason has been (too) less knowledge.
...And there are little improvement in head too. (cylinder head)
But allthough, I get now all that fuel burn practically with no smoke.
The car pulls nicely, I am planning dyno-day.
Last edited by tuikku; Jan 1, 2009 at 02:20 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 4
From: Aalesund, Norway
2015 E63, 1979 GD300, 1992 190E 2.6
Remap
I had hoped for the tuning program in the box to contain overloaded programs, so that I would get smoke due to too less air (in or out). As it turned out, even at max setting, there was no smoke. (And I made sure I didn't get the particle filter version before I bought the car).
My dyno friend will probably end up doing the OBDII remap, but I would like to have an exhaust temp and turbo pressure gauge first. And probably new nozzles. Are there any fuel restrictors that you showed earlier, in my fueling lines too?
My dyno looks like this:
I tried to find out where you live, if you're in Rovaniemi (I found a mention of a tuning shop there) we are about one days drive apart. In my previous job I used to travel a lot on the Norwegian north end, but seldom over the border to Sweden or Finland...
My dyno friend will probably end up doing the OBDII remap, but I would like to have an exhaust temp and turbo pressure gauge first. And probably new nozzles. Are there any fuel restrictors that you showed earlier, in my fueling lines too?
My dyno looks like this:
I tried to find out where you live, if you're in Rovaniemi (I found a mention of a tuning shop there) we are about one days drive apart. In my previous job I used to travel a lot on the Norwegian north end, but seldom over the border to Sweden or Finland...
Banned
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 5
From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 4
From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
If it is pointless then why are all the diesel muscle trucks smoking like crazy during their runs at events? I am talking about thick solid clouds billowing out of stacks continuously. Is that all for show too or a way to increase power and torque at races?
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 4
From: Aalesund, Norway
2015 E63, 1979 GD300, 1992 190E 2.6
Smoke?...
Smoke means that the engine is getting more fuel than it can burn in the alloted time (work stroke), so unburnt fuel (and burning fuel) is being expelled through the exhaust and some of it is burning through past the valves, ports, manifold and turbo. This leads to excessive temperature, but is simultaneously the only visible sign that you are finally supplying enough fuel! (or too much, thinking economy and environment).
You can very well drive with a smoking car, but you should be running an exhaust temp gauge before the turbo. The limit is 900 deg F, 1100 deg F in short bursts (10-30 sec). A small turbo will limit the amount of air, leading to smoke. A clogged kataclysmic perverter or particle filter/exhaust the same.
I had a drag race can only on my Ford Excursion and I reached 900 degrees after the turbo (equals about 1250 before the turbo) in about 15 seconds at 2500 rpms flat out. But that was a very quick 3,5 tons truck...
If you have a specially prepared engine with more heat tolerant innards and turbo, you can run with smoke poring out with not much concern. On a standard passenger car this will lead to cracked heads, broken turbo vanes, cracked valves or valve seats or pistons with holes in them.
A quick and easy way of making lots more power is of course propane injection, which works on a diesel the way NOS works on a gas engine. A 30-50% power burst is possible. Which will of course lead to engine wear, like on my friends Ford F-250 PowerStroke with around 750 hp, at least two of the pistons burned through and jammed, the rods broke at the little end and to make sure the breakdown would be outrageously expensive the broken rods came out the block on the side and pierced the starter.
Propane injection is probably the quickest and possibly the cheapest way to make more burst power, but it must be electronically controlled. Adding propane at too low revs WILL break the engine.
Hehe.... Good luck... :-)
You can very well drive with a smoking car, but you should be running an exhaust temp gauge before the turbo. The limit is 900 deg F, 1100 deg F in short bursts (10-30 sec). A small turbo will limit the amount of air, leading to smoke. A clogged kataclysmic perverter or particle filter/exhaust the same.
I had a drag race can only on my Ford Excursion and I reached 900 degrees after the turbo (equals about 1250 before the turbo) in about 15 seconds at 2500 rpms flat out. But that was a very quick 3,5 tons truck...
If you have a specially prepared engine with more heat tolerant innards and turbo, you can run with smoke poring out with not much concern. On a standard passenger car this will lead to cracked heads, broken turbo vanes, cracked valves or valve seats or pistons with holes in them.
A quick and easy way of making lots more power is of course propane injection, which works on a diesel the way NOS works on a gas engine. A 30-50% power burst is possible. Which will of course lead to engine wear, like on my friends Ford F-250 PowerStroke with around 750 hp, at least two of the pistons burned through and jammed, the rods broke at the little end and to make sure the breakdown would be outrageously expensive the broken rods came out the block on the side and pierced the starter.
Propane injection is probably the quickest and possibly the cheapest way to make more burst power, but it must be electronically controlled. Adding propane at too low revs WILL break the engine.
Hehe.... Good luck... :-)
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 4
From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
Treehuggers are Catatonic Perverters indeed!
Smoke means that the engine is getting more fuel than it can burn in the alloted time (work stroke), so unburnt fuel (and burning fuel) is being expelled through the exhaust and some of it is burning through past the valves, ports, manifold and turbo. This leads to excessive temperature, but is simultaneously the only visible sign that you are finally supplying enough fuel! (or too much, thinking economy and environment).
You can very well drive with a smoking car, but you should be running an exhaust temp gauge before the turbo. The limit is 900 deg F, 1100 deg F in short bursts (10-30 sec). A small turbo will limit the amount of air, leading to smoke. A clogged kataclysmic perverter or particle filter/exhaust the same.
I had a drag race can only on my Ford Excursion and I reached 900 degrees after the turbo (equals about 1250 before the turbo) in about 15 seconds at 2500 rpms flat out. But that was a very quick 3,5 tons truck...
Bjorn,
Thanks for your very informative post. You are obviously an enthusiasist. I love the Excursion too which is really a F250 truck with an enclosed bed. Are there lots of diesel fans in Norway too? I watch a lot of Finnish diesel clips on You Tube. Very impressive.
Maybe I should radically tune my car after the warranty expires. The trouble in North America is insufficient demand for tuning parts for diesel motor cars (a mere 3% of all cars). Trucks, of course, are totally different.
If you have a specially prepared engine with more heat tolerant innards and turbo, you can run with smoke poring out with not much concern. On a standard passenger car this will lead to cracked heads, broken turbo vanes, cracked valves or valve seats or pistons with holes in them.
A quick and easy way of making lots more power is of course propane injection, which works on a diesel the way NOS works on a gas engine. A 30-50% power burst is possible. Which will of course lead to engine wear, like on my friends Ford F-250 PowerStroke with around 750 hp, at least two of the pistons burned through and jammed, the rods broke at the little end and to make sure the breakdown would be outrageously expensive the broken rods came out the block on the side and pierced the starter.
Propane injection is probably the quickest and possibly the cheapest way to make more burst power, but it must be electronically controlled. Adding propane at too low revs WILL break the engine.
Hehe.... Good luck... :-)
You can very well drive with a smoking car, but you should be running an exhaust temp gauge before the turbo. The limit is 900 deg F, 1100 deg F in short bursts (10-30 sec). A small turbo will limit the amount of air, leading to smoke. A clogged kataclysmic perverter or particle filter/exhaust the same.
I had a drag race can only on my Ford Excursion and I reached 900 degrees after the turbo (equals about 1250 before the turbo) in about 15 seconds at 2500 rpms flat out. But that was a very quick 3,5 tons truck...
Bjorn,
Thanks for your very informative post. You are obviously an enthusiasist. I love the Excursion too which is really a F250 truck with an enclosed bed. Are there lots of diesel fans in Norway too? I watch a lot of Finnish diesel clips on You Tube. Very impressive.
Maybe I should radically tune my car after the warranty expires. The trouble in North America is insufficient demand for tuning parts for diesel motor cars (a mere 3% of all cars). Trucks, of course, are totally different.
If you have a specially prepared engine with more heat tolerant innards and turbo, you can run with smoke poring out with not much concern. On a standard passenger car this will lead to cracked heads, broken turbo vanes, cracked valves or valve seats or pistons with holes in them.
A quick and easy way of making lots more power is of course propane injection, which works on a diesel the way NOS works on a gas engine. A 30-50% power burst is possible. Which will of course lead to engine wear, like on my friends Ford F-250 PowerStroke with around 750 hp, at least two of the pistons burned through and jammed, the rods broke at the little end and to make sure the breakdown would be outrageously expensive the broken rods came out the block on the side and pierced the starter.
Propane injection is probably the quickest and possibly the cheapest way to make more burst power, but it must be electronically controlled. Adding propane at too low revs WILL break the engine.
Hehe.... Good luck... :-)
Thanks for your very informative post. You are obviously an enthusiasist. I love the Excursion too which is really a F250 truck with an enclosed bed. Are there lots of diesel fans in Norway too? I watch a lot of Finnish diesel clips on You Tube. Very impressive.
Maybe I should radically tune my car after the warranty expires. The trouble in North America is insufficient demand for tuning parts for diesel motor cars (a mere 3% of all cars). Trucks, of course, are totally different.
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
.
Thick black smoke means huge heat stress also.
In race cars...ok, but not "in every days drive".
There are various reasons for black smoke.
Lack of air is only one of them, and definitely not the worst.
Too long spraying time is worse, wrong timing...
Björnar, I am working on railroads, and living a bit souther and smaller town.
This is "only" hobby.
AMG injectors fits perfectly to your engine and works decently even with the orig. program, idling works also.
They gives +30% power and torque immediately.
But, as I said before, your orig. turbo is too small to those injectors, if you will use the full capacity of them.
Thick black smoke means huge heat stress also.
In race cars...ok, but not "in every days drive".
There are various reasons for black smoke.
Lack of air is only one of them, and definitely not the worst.
Too long spraying time is worse, wrong timing...
Björnar, I am working on railroads, and living a bit souther and smaller town.
This is "only" hobby.
AMG injectors fits perfectly to your engine and works decently even with the orig. program, idling works also.
They gives +30% power and torque immediately.
But, as I said before, your orig. turbo is too small to those injectors, if you will use the full capacity of them.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 20
Likes: 4
From: Aalesund, Norway
2015 E63, 1979 GD300, 1992 190E 2.6
AMG nozzle
Do you have part numbers (or a vendor link) for AMG nozzles?
As for US diesel tuning; while I lived in Seattle we had a F-250 SuperCab to haul a 11.000 lbs semi fifthwheel camper. With a 460 gas 250hp engine it sure guzzled a large quantity of gas. A diesel would be better, but the good PowerStroke didn't come until the late 90s, when I was back in Norway. Tuning diesel engines in the US is no problem, as long as it is one of the (previous?) big three. For car engines, there is far less than in Europe. Having the biggest and baddest truck engine is fine, but the handling and weight of the trucks make much of the power advantage vanish. See for instance http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/0...ine/index.html
By the way, if I want to go really fast, I jump onto the Duc... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIGjmyiDmI0
As for US diesel tuning; while I lived in Seattle we had a F-250 SuperCab to haul a 11.000 lbs semi fifthwheel camper. With a 460 gas 250hp engine it sure guzzled a large quantity of gas. A diesel would be better, but the good PowerStroke didn't come until the late 90s, when I was back in Norway. Tuning diesel engines in the US is no problem, as long as it is one of the (previous?) big three. For car engines, there is far less than in Europe. Having the biggest and baddest truck engine is fine, but the handling and weight of the trucks make much of the power advantage vanish. See for instance http://www.dieselpowermag.com/news/0...ine/index.html
By the way, if I want to go really fast, I jump onto the Duc... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIGjmyiDmI0
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
S212 350cdi-4-matic `11 "AMG" // C207 350cdi ´10 "AMG"
MB OEM number 6120700287 and Bosch number 044110151 for injector.
Nozzle: Bosch number 0433171798 DLLA 156p 1256+
If you can buy injector or nozzle somewhere in very good price , tell us too..
Nozzle: Bosch number 0433171798 DLLA 156p 1256+
If you can buy injector or nozzle somewhere in very good price , tell us too..
Last edited by joskami; Jan 9, 2009 at 11:18 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
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From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
Hey Joskami, would these injectors and nozzles fit my 2006 E320 CDi too and if so what would be the expected benefit?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 4
From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
I had hoped for the tuning program in the box to contain overloaded programs, so that I would get smoke due to too less air (in or out). As it turned out, even at max setting, there was no smoke. (And I made sure I didn't get the particle filter version before I bought the car).
My dyno friend will probably end up doing the OBDII remap, but I would like to have an exhaust temp and turbo pressure gauge first. And probably new nozzles. Are there any fuel restrictors that you showed earlier, in my fueling lines too?
My dyno looks like this:
I tried to find out where you live, if you're in Rovaniemi (I found a mention of a tuning shop there) we are about one days drive apart. In my previous job I used to travel a lot on the Norwegian north end, but seldom over the border to Sweden or Finland...
My dyno friend will probably end up doing the OBDII remap, but I would like to have an exhaust temp and turbo pressure gauge first. And probably new nozzles. Are there any fuel restrictors that you showed earlier, in my fueling lines too?
My dyno looks like this:
I tried to find out where you live, if you're in Rovaniemi (I found a mention of a tuning shop there) we are about one days drive apart. In my previous job I used to travel a lot on the Norwegian north end, but seldom over the border to Sweden or Finland...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 4
From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
Another question Joskami
If I gut the catalytic converter and take away the mufflers as Bjorn suggested would EGT still be a problem afterwards?
