Steven Gu

It is normal that different people have different opinions. I will not surprised to hear that some MB owners even donate $4000 or so to MB USA to compensate them for the harassment they go through by EPA.
Diesel cars will be hard to find soon. Owning one is fun!

we47b1me

sure, find us someone to donate to a multi billion dollar corporation with corporate liability insurance for just this reason

..........

Enough nonsense with this thread. What happened to common sense

kajtek1

When donating to MB USA might be 1 story, my father had to donate his 1987 MB diesel as he could not find a buyer. I have seen several W124 advertised by Charites in CA.
I sold 2 Bluetecs for low thousands, when they were in excelent shape, so when you would have to sell the car for $5000 and kbb gives it $12k and you are in high tax bracket, it makes more sense to donate.
But now having 4 years warranty on excelent cars, I don't think Bluetec owners will rush to give the cars away.

SEC1939

Had my work done this week to my E250. Going in I knew my add blue heater was broken. Initial dealer report confirmed and had a broken heater with replacement at $2,700. I asked the service manager to go to bat for me to get this also covered by MB. They did and Mercedes paid for the parts and labor for the add blue heater. Car feels a bit more peppy but this may be due to a full system re-set. Over time the trans shift points adapt to driving style and mine is really mellow so I expect in time this perceived peppy-ness will fade.

Mark3133

Message came up to refill my def. haven’t put 100 miles one the car since getting it back. Filling up the def is not part of the aem update?

MarylandGLK250B

Was your DEF nearly empty before the campaign? My DEF started burning after the campaign, as the temperature sensor was out. It took three weeks for my dealer to fix. I think the bill to Mercedes was in the thousands.

Mark3133

It was nearly empty. I just assumed they would fill it as part of the aem update. Guesss not. Oh well, I get it for cheap on eBay anyways.

kajtek1

Filling up DEF is part of regural maintenance.
When 4 years extended warranty is great thing, I can only wonder when owners will require flat tire replacement covered by it.

GuestFromTampa

The same thing happens to me and I also noticed that the start/stop button is not working.
Took it back to the dealer the next day. Two weeks later they still working on it trying to find the issue. Really glad that I got a loaner even though i can't say that I like GLAs

DUEWIP

You are confused. The diesel update and warranty have nothing to do with the financial settlement for owners and previous owners.

I did my update at a dealer and have the warranty, and have opted out of the settlement and hired a law firm for that completely separate issue.

we47b1me

dear lord. F*ing amateur hour.

DUEWIP

You REALLY are confused. You are not being offered a warranty to opt in. Anyone who does the update gets the warranty.

Opt in (or opt out) refers to a COMPLETELY SEPARATE issue of suing MBUSA for the class action against them which has nothing to do with the EPA settlement.

You are quick to snap at people here as if you know it all but you come off as a troll when you don't get your issues straight first.

we47b1me

maybe it's the law degree and corporate practice I have that is messing my head up. you must, as a newbie here, see something I don't.

Bye, Felicia.

DUEWIP

Do you and your law degree want the place to yourself? You will always rank very high in a world of your own making...

In above posts you conflate the warranty (which is not an offer, it is automatically applied if you do the update) with the financial settlement. They have nothing to do with one another. You do not need to opt in to the class settlement in order to get the update or the warranty. Stop confusing newbies.

we47b1me

ok

AzurSL

I just found this thread and I’m very happy I found someone who actually understands what is going on. We have a sprinter which was affected, did the recall and opted in for the settlement.

Many people are quick to think that mercedes pulled the same s*** VW did by purposely cheating the tests with defeat devices and deceiving the public, which is not true. Mercedes vehicles for the most part, met emissions requirements and only turned off the emissions system in cold temperatures, like gas cars as you mentioned! If I’m not mistaken, the EPA actually never found any defeat devices with similar purpose as VW’s.

It is my opinion that when people saw the success of the VW scandal and the lawsuits, they jumped all over it with Mercedes for the cold temperature shut off. With this logic we should recall most gas cars!

Etienne Lau

Exactly! Every single gasoline/petro powered vehicle sold by every car company would be included in a lawsuit. All gasoline/petro power vehicles shut off emissions during cold cycle. Some examples of this are EGR valves are turned on/off at various parts of the drive cycle, ie cold temperature, wide open throttle, etc.... Gasoline/petro vehicles today that use GDI produce soot just like diesel vehicles except, diesels are required to have DPF, but wait gasoline/petro vehicles where is the GPF(Soot Filter).

Let's all file a lawsuit and go after the Ford, GM, VW, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Merces, Nissan, etc...Have you guys looked at soot on the tail pipe of the GDI vehicles and then compared the clean tail pipe of the Bluetec? I have, and it's night and day. The DPF keeps the Bluetec tailpipe nice and clean, but the GDI engines, are black as ever.

AzurSL

Exactly!! If I look at the tail pipes of my 2020 C300 with almost 11k miles, they are super black! One of which was just replaced 2k miles ago after I was rear ended. I will admit I do drive it a little hard hahaha so it might be a littler darker than average. From what I’ve heard, they shut off the emissions in those circumstances (gas and diesel) to stop from damaging the engine and emissions systems.

But seriously, what’s stopping us from going after gas cars for the same logic? This whole settlement has shown that people will sue for anything. It isn’t about making a company pay for its lack of morals, cough VAG cough, it’s about making an easy buck at the expense of others.

Steven Gu

Great company MB has been harassed by EPA and EU EPA to pay billions for this!
Why not we donate money to MB to compensate their losses?

AzurSL

No need for you to get all sarcastic when I mention that I opted IN for the settlement. I’m just stating facts, that this is something ALL gas cars on the market do, so how exactly is this any different?

Steven Gu

No intention to offend. Just followed the logics.
In maths, one of the most challenging issue is: many foundmental theories can not be proved, they are self referencing. Means in order to prove theory A is right, you have to prove theory A is wrong. But most folks don't even bother, far away from their everyday life.

As for the bluetec cheating thing, besides cold temperature, I seemed read from somewhere the cheating software also skip the emission control system in many daily driving situation. The result is more NOX emitted, but better mileage and less use of DEF fluid. Bosch supplied such cheating ware to many car manufacturers. If you are really interested, just search and read more info.

AzurSL

From what I’ve seen in the settlement, the EPA never admitted to finding cheat devices like VW. The other driving situations include things like full throttle (gas cars shut off emissions under full load as well), and going up a steep incline where u need more power. I read an article a while back that stated the the EPA only found defeat devices similarly used to the ones by VAG in FCA cars. The “issue” with bluetec was that this was never disclosed to people, however it’s not disclosed when you buy a gas car either. VW and FCA went in and completely cheated the tests, and those cars where heavy over polluters, bluetec vehicles followed the same ideals as a conventional GDI car, but yet here we are.

AzurSL

I would like to clear something up, which I think I made sound kind of confusing. VW abs FCA defeat devices were designed to fool tests. The bluetec vehicles aren’t free of defeat devices, instead they are similar to the ones found in GDI vehicles, where they defeat emissions under certain circumstances. Many articles refer to these defeat devices, but very few actually explain them.

Etienne Lau

How is turning off emissions under cold temperature cheating? Gasoline engines do the same thing for EGR as an example. DEF fluid freezes when it's too cold (12F/-11C), so if any diesel engine is unable to pump the DEF fluid until the DEF fluid heater has heated up the fluid, you would define that as cheating, following your logic "bluetec cheating"!!!!

Yes there is no denying that more NOX is emitted during the period where the DEF fluid is frozen. MB and EPA both have stated that this is not an issue. However the law firm that is involved in this lawsuit has decided to file their claim that this is unacceptable as Mercedes claim their vehicles do not pollute. Their lawsuit is not about MB not meeting EPA requirements it's about marketing/false advertising! And that is why the payments to the car owners are nothing compared to VW paid their owners. In VW case, they outright cheated by turning off their emissions systems entirely as it causes dramatic performance loss. In order for VW to fix their vehicles properly, they would have had to install DEF system where none existed.

In MB case, to "fix" there issue, they have re-programmed their vehicles to get them up to operating temperature faster(Owners are reporting better throttle response), and replaced the Catalyst with Copper Catalyst to enhance it's ability reduce NOX during cold temperature driving to mitigate the fact the DEF fluid is frozen.

Etienne Lau

@Steven Gu Suggested reading: https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/daim...ettlement-faqs