MB bluetec lawsuit in USA
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 57
Likes: 11
R350
That's exactly how I am interpreting the entire issue. The lawsuit that we are all in is based on marketing claims and failing to meet marketing claims and nothing about breaking or not meeting EPA requirements. So yah, another 3-5 years for those that want to jump onto another lawsuit.....By then the vehicles will likely be worthless and sold-off.....and/or broken down....Good luck to those that want to go down that path.
Diesel cars will be hard to find soon. Owning one is fun!
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 706
Likes: 114
From: Los Angeles, CA
'22 GLE 350 | '15 ML250 | '87 560SL | '19 GLC 300 | '12 C250 (sold) | '02 ML500 | '98 C230
..........
Enough nonsense with this thread. What happened to common sense
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,224
Likes: 1,798
From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
When donating to MB USA might be 1 story, my father had to donate his 1987 MB diesel as he could not find a buyer. I have seen several W124 advertised by Charites in CA.
I sold 2 Bluetecs for low thousands, when they were in excelent shape, so when you would have to sell the car for $5000 and kbb gives it $12k and you are in high tax bracket, it makes more sense to donate.
But now having 4 years warranty on excelent cars, I don't think Bluetec owners will rush to give the cars away.
I sold 2 Bluetecs for low thousands, when they were in excelent shape, so when you would have to sell the car for $5000 and kbb gives it $12k and you are in high tax bracket, it makes more sense to donate.
But now having 4 years warranty on excelent cars, I don't think Bluetec owners will rush to give the cars away.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 436
Likes: 36
From: Barrington IL
2015 E 250, 1999 BMW M Roadster, 1939 International Harvester, 2023 GLC
Had my work done this week to my E250. Going in I knew my add blue heater was broken. Initial dealer report confirmed and had a broken heater with replacement at $2,700. I asked the service manager to go to bat for me to get this also covered by MB. They did and Mercedes paid for the parts and labor for the add blue heater. Car feels a bit more peppy but this may be due to a full system re-set. Over time the trans shift points adapt to driving style and mine is really mellow so I expect in time this perceived peppy-ness will fade.
Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 92
Likes: 13
From: Six Mile, SC
2018 SL450
Was your DEF nearly empty before the campaign? My DEF started burning after the campaign, as the temperature sensor was out. It took three weeks for my dealer to fix. I think the bill to Mercedes was in the thousands.
Newbie
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 1
cl55
It was nearly empty. I just assumed they would fill it as part of the aem update. Guesss not. Oh well, I get it for cheap on eBay anyways.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,224
Likes: 1,798
From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Filling up DEF is part of regural maintenance.
When 4 years extended warranty is great thing, I can only wonder when owners will require flat tire replacement covered by it.
When 4 years extended warranty is great thing, I can only wonder when owners will require flat tire replacement covered by it.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 580
Likes: 17
From: SoFlo
W212 E250 BT 4M
The same thing happens to me and I also noticed that the start/stop button is not working.
Took it back to the dealer the next day. Two weeks later they still working on it trying to find the issue. Really glad that I got a loaner even though i can't say that I like GLAs
Took it back to the dealer the next day. Two weeks later they still working on it trying to find the issue. Really glad that I got a loaner even though i can't say that I like GLAs
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 11
Likes: 5
2013 ML350 Bluetec
I did my update at a dealer and have the warranty, and have opted out of the settlement and hired a law firm for that completely separate issue.
Last edited by DUEWIP; Jun 3, 2021 at 11:55 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 706
Likes: 114
From: Los Angeles, CA
'22 GLE 350 | '15 ML250 | '87 560SL | '19 GLC 300 | '12 C250 (sold) | '02 ML500 | '98 C230
dear lord. F*ing amateur hour.
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 11
Likes: 5
2013 ML350 Bluetec
Ambulance chasing attorneys for the class action variety. They don't understand the intricacies of this versus the VW lawsuit. What people aren't realizing is the insane warranty MB is offering you for opting in, not only on the parts they're replacing, but close to the equivalent of a CPO warranty on critical components. But again, godspeed to the folks that think MB is going to do a buyback scenario close to the VW one. I'll take the added warranty + the 4k payout from MB any day.
Opt in (or opt out) refers to a COMPLETELY SEPARATE issue of suing MBUSA for the class action against them which has nothing to do with the EPA settlement.
You are quick to snap at people here as if you know it all but you come off as a troll when you don't get your issues straight first.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 706
Likes: 114
From: Los Angeles, CA
'22 GLE 350 | '15 ML250 | '87 560SL | '19 GLC 300 | '12 C250 (sold) | '02 ML500 | '98 C230
You REALLY are confused. You are not being offered a warranty to opt in. Anyone who does the update gets the warranty.
Opt in (or opt out) refers to a COMPLETELY SEPARATE issue of suing MBUSA for the class action against them which has nothing to do with the EPA settlement.
You are quick to snap at people here as if you know it all but you come off as a troll when you don't get your issues straight first.
Opt in (or opt out) refers to a COMPLETELY SEPARATE issue of suing MBUSA for the class action against them which has nothing to do with the EPA settlement.
You are quick to snap at people here as if you know it all but you come off as a troll when you don't get your issues straight first.
Bye, Felicia.
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 11
Likes: 5
2013 ML350 Bluetec
In above posts you conflate the warranty (which is not an offer, it is automatically applied if you do the update) with the financial settlement. They have nothing to do with one another. You do not need to opt in to the class settlement in order to get the update or the warranty. Stop confusing newbies.
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 706
Likes: 114
From: Los Angeles, CA
'22 GLE 350 | '15 ML250 | '87 560SL | '19 GLC 300 | '12 C250 (sold) | '02 ML500 | '98 C230
Do you and your law degree want the place to yourself? You will always rank very high in a world of your own making...
In above posts you conflate the warranty (which is not an offer, it is automatically applied if you do the update) with the financial settlement. They have nothing to do with one another. You do not need to opt in to the class settlement in order to get the update or the warranty. Stop confusing newbies.
In above posts you conflate the warranty (which is not an offer, it is automatically applied if you do the update) with the financial settlement. They have nothing to do with one another. You do not need to opt in to the class settlement in order to get the update or the warranty. Stop confusing newbies.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 527
Likes: 167
From: SoCal, Cannes France
1986 Light Ivory R107 560SL & 2024 W206 Starling Blue C300 4MATIC AMG-Line, Exclusive Trim
The poster and a number of others on here are planning on opting out and filing a separate lawsuit to force MB to buy back their vehicles. They are comparing MB situation with VW. Sadly they are missing the point, which is VW is/was unable to repair a number of their vehicles to meet EPA and CARB requirements, because they could not and cannot install the DEF system to compensate for the NOX emissions. While in MB's case they are able to apply the repairs to make them compliant with EPA and CARB requirements.
Remember VW ECU explicitly turn on/off their emissions system based on whether it was being tested on 2 or 4 wheel rolling road/dyno. While MB's issue is they turned off the emissions systems when vehicles were being driven in colder temperature, but the emissions system were working in warmer/normal operating temperature. What bother's me the most is EGR and other gasoline vehicle emissions systems are also turned off in colder temperature and yet we don't see EPA or CARB bouncing all over that!!! Which is why I think this entire issue is a political issue rather than an actual "we need to bring all vehicles into compliance", if they were after actual compliance, they would be after all other petro/gasoline vehicles as well which they are not. It's purely political.
Remember VW ECU explicitly turn on/off their emissions system based on whether it was being tested on 2 or 4 wheel rolling road/dyno. While MB's issue is they turned off the emissions systems when vehicles were being driven in colder temperature, but the emissions system were working in warmer/normal operating temperature. What bother's me the most is EGR and other gasoline vehicle emissions systems are also turned off in colder temperature and yet we don't see EPA or CARB bouncing all over that!!! Which is why I think this entire issue is a political issue rather than an actual "we need to bring all vehicles into compliance", if they were after actual compliance, they would be after all other petro/gasoline vehicles as well which they are not. It's purely political.
Many people are quick to think that mercedes pulled the same s*** VW did by purposely cheating the tests with defeat devices and deceiving the public, which is not true. Mercedes vehicles for the most part, met emissions requirements and only turned off the emissions system in cold temperatures, like gas cars as you mentioned! If I’m not mistaken, the EPA actually never found any defeat devices with similar purpose as VW’s.
It is my opinion that when people saw the success of the VW scandal and the lawsuits, they jumped all over it with Mercedes for the cold temperature shut off. With this logic we should recall most gas cars!
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 487
Likes: 114
From: DFW, TX
Ml350 bluetec
Exactly! Every single gasoline/petro powered vehicle sold by every car company would be included in a lawsuit. All gasoline/petro power vehicles shut off emissions during cold cycle. Some examples of this are EGR valves are turned on/off at various parts of the drive cycle, ie cold temperature, wide open throttle, etc.... Gasoline/petro vehicles today that use GDI produce soot just like diesel vehicles except, diesels are required to have DPF, but wait gasoline/petro vehicles where is the GPF(Soot Filter).
Let's all file a lawsuit and go after the Ford, GM, VW, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Merces, Nissan, etc...Have you guys looked at soot on the tail pipe of the GDI vehicles and then compared the clean tail pipe of the Bluetec? I have, and it's night and day. The DPF keeps the Bluetec tailpipe nice and clean, but the GDI engines, are black as ever.
Let's all file a lawsuit and go after the Ford, GM, VW, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Merces, Nissan, etc...Have you guys looked at soot on the tail pipe of the GDI vehicles and then compared the clean tail pipe of the Bluetec? I have, and it's night and day. The DPF keeps the Bluetec tailpipe nice and clean, but the GDI engines, are black as ever.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 527
Likes: 167
From: SoCal, Cannes France
1986 Light Ivory R107 560SL & 2024 W206 Starling Blue C300 4MATIC AMG-Line, Exclusive Trim
Exactly! Every single gasoline/petro powered vehicle sold by every car company would be included in a lawsuit. All gasoline/petro power vehicles shut off emissions during cold cycle. Some examples of this are EGR valves are turned on/off at various parts of the drive cycle, ie cold temperature, wide open throttle, etc.... Gasoline/petro vehicles today that use GDI produce soot just like diesel vehicles except, diesels are required to have DPF, but wait gasoline/petro vehicles where is the GPF(Soot Filter).
Let's all file a lawsuit and go after the Ford, GM, VW, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Merces, Nissan, etc...Have you guys looked at soot on the tail pipe of the GDI vehicles and then compared the clean tail pipe of the Bluetec? I have, and it's night and day. The DPF keeps the Bluetec tailpipe nice and clean, but the GDI engines, are black as ever.
Let's all file a lawsuit and go after the Ford, GM, VW, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Merces, Nissan, etc...Have you guys looked at soot on the tail pipe of the GDI vehicles and then compared the clean tail pipe of the Bluetec? I have, and it's night and day. The DPF keeps the Bluetec tailpipe nice and clean, but the GDI engines, are black as ever.
so it might be a littler darker than average. From what I’ve heard, they shut off the emissions in those circumstances (gas and diesel) to stop from damaging the engine and emissions systems. But seriously, what’s stopping us from going after gas cars for the same logic? This whole settlement has shown that people will sue for anything. It isn’t about making a company pay for its lack of morals, cough VAG cough, it’s about making an easy buck at the expense of others.
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 57
Likes: 11
R350
I just found this thread and I’m very happy I found someone who actually understands what is going on. We have a sprinter which was affected, did the recall and opted in for the settlement.
Many people are quick to think that mercedes pulled the same s*** VW did by purposely cheating the tests with defeat devices and deceiving the public, which is not true. Mercedes vehicles for the most part, met emissions requirements and only turned off the emissions system in cold temperatures, like gas cars as you mentioned! If I’m not mistaken, the EPA actually never found any defeat devices with similar purpose as VW’s.
It is my opinion that when people saw the success of the VW scandal and the lawsuits, they jumped all over it with Mercedes for the cold temperature shut off. With this logic we should recall most gas cars!
Many people are quick to think that mercedes pulled the same s*** VW did by purposely cheating the tests with defeat devices and deceiving the public, which is not true. Mercedes vehicles for the most part, met emissions requirements and only turned off the emissions system in cold temperatures, like gas cars as you mentioned! If I’m not mistaken, the EPA actually never found any defeat devices with similar purpose as VW’s.
It is my opinion that when people saw the success of the VW scandal and the lawsuits, they jumped all over it with Mercedes for the cold temperature shut off. With this logic we should recall most gas cars!
Why not we donate money to MB to compensate their losses?
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 527
Likes: 167
From: SoCal, Cannes France
1986 Light Ivory R107 560SL & 2024 W206 Starling Blue C300 4MATIC AMG-Line, Exclusive Trim
No need for you to get all sarcastic when I mention that I opted IN for the settlement. I’m just stating facts, that this is something ALL gas cars on the market do, so how exactly is this any different?
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 57
Likes: 11
R350
In maths, one of the most challenging issue is: many foundmental theories can not be proved, they are self referencing. Means in order to prove theory A is right, you have to prove theory A is wrong. But most folks don't even bother, far away from their everyday life.
As for the bluetec cheating thing, besides cold temperature, I seemed read from somewhere the cheating software also skip the emission control system in many daily driving situation. The result is more NOX emitted, but better mileage and less use of DEF fluid. Bosch supplied such cheating ware to many car manufacturers. If you are really interested, just search and read more info.
Last edited by Steven Gu; Jun 6, 2021 at 04:05 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 527
Likes: 167
From: SoCal, Cannes France
1986 Light Ivory R107 560SL & 2024 W206 Starling Blue C300 4MATIC AMG-Line, Exclusive Trim
No intention to offend. Just followed the logics.
In maths, one of the most challenging issue is: many foundmental theories can not be proved, they are self referencing. Means in order to prove theory A is right, you have to prove theory A is wrong. But most folks don't even bother, far away from their everyday life.
As for the bluetec cheating thing, besides cold temperature, I seemed read from somewhere the cheating software also skip the emission control system in many daily driving situation. The result is more NOX emitted, but better mileage and less use of DEF fluid. Bosch supplied such cheating ware to many car manufacturers. If you are really interested, just search and read more info.
In maths, one of the most challenging issue is: many foundmental theories can not be proved, they are self referencing. Means in order to prove theory A is right, you have to prove theory A is wrong. But most folks don't even bother, far away from their everyday life.
As for the bluetec cheating thing, besides cold temperature, I seemed read from somewhere the cheating software also skip the emission control system in many daily driving situation. The result is more NOX emitted, but better mileage and less use of DEF fluid. Bosch supplied such cheating ware to many car manufacturers. If you are really interested, just search and read more info.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 527
Likes: 167
From: SoCal, Cannes France
1986 Light Ivory R107 560SL & 2024 W206 Starling Blue C300 4MATIC AMG-Line, Exclusive Trim
I would like to clear something up, which I think I made sound kind of confusing. VW abs FCA defeat devices were designed to fool tests. The bluetec vehicles aren’t free of defeat devices, instead they are similar to the ones found in GDI vehicles, where they defeat emissions under certain circumstances. Many articles refer to these defeat devices, but very few actually explain them.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 487
Likes: 114
From: DFW, TX
Ml350 bluetec
As for the bluetec cheating thing, besides cold temperature, I seemed read from somewhere the cheating software also skip the emission control system in many daily driving situation. The result is more NOX emitted, but better mileage and less use of DEF fluid. Bosch supplied such cheating ware to many car manufacturers. If you are really interested, just search and read more info.
Yes there is no denying that more NOX is emitted during the period where the DEF fluid is frozen. MB and EPA both have stated that this is not an issue. However the law firm that is involved in this lawsuit has decided to file their claim that this is unacceptable as Mercedes claim their vehicles do not pollute. Their lawsuit is not about MB not meeting EPA requirements it's about marketing/false advertising! And that is why the payments to the car owners are nothing compared to VW paid their owners. In VW case, they outright cheated by turning off their emissions systems entirely as it causes dramatic performance loss. In order for VW to fix their vehicles properly, they would have had to install DEF system where none existed.
In MB case, to "fix" there issue, they have re-programmed their vehicles to get them up to operating temperature faster(Owners are reporting better throttle response), and replaced the Catalyst with Copper Catalyst to enhance it's ability reduce NOX during cold temperature driving to mitigate the fact the DEF fluid is frozen.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 487
Likes: 114
From: DFW, TX
Ml350 bluetec
