MB bluetec lawsuit in USA
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 57
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R350
@Steven Gu Suggested reading: https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/daim...ettlement-faqs
How did EPA find this software? When?
The EPA discovered the defeat devices through testing at the National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory (NVFEL) and through information requests sent to the company. This testing was performed after the EPA’s announcement on September 25, 2015, following the Volkswagen diesel emissions scandal, that it would perform additional testing “using driving cycles and conditions that may reasonably be expected to be encountered in normal operation and use, for the purposes of investigating a potential defeat device.” The EPA found a number of Auxiliary Emission Control Devices (AECDs) in the affected vehicles that were not described in the applications for the certificates of conformity that purportedly cover these motor vehicles. The United States..."I have no formal legal training, so I admire all the attorneys offering opinions here. And I take the settlement between EPA and MB respectfully, they have worked on it for years.
As a "plain" person, I can not totally understand the whole legal processes MB and EPA went through, and will not pretending that I understand it.
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2020
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R350
https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/daim...lement#penalty
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 487
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From: DFW, TX
Ml350 bluetec
EPA/USA government gets 0.75 billion from MB out of this settlement.
https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/daim...lement#penalty
https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/daim...lement#penalty
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 57
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R350
Yup, that pretty much sums it up. MB either purposely or inadvertently did not disclose the "cold temperature requirement" to EPA. And EPA knows that this is "allowed", as it's allowed with GDI engines. Soooo there is plenty of "toilet paper" going around, and EPA is covering it's ***(They DO NOT Explicitly Test Vehicles and are going "S****" we messed up again) by getting MB to cough up 0.75 billion, just as much as MB is cover it's *** for "oops we did not disclose". This is basically a case of crossing the "T"s and dotting the "I"'s and we the vehicle owners get paid $$ as innocent bystanders.
I recalled that Stern's firm tested ML, GL, E and R class bluetec not only in cold temperature, but also at normal temperature at highway and local speed. They found the cheating device kicked in under many of these real world driving conditions. So it sounds cold temperature is only one of many features the cheating device meant for.
“With the cheat device, however, outside of the testing environment, emissions are alleged to be far greater than when in the testing environment. Indeed, once the vehicle can detect it is being driven in normal, everyday driving conditions due to, for instance, steering wheel turns, changes in speed, uphill/downhill environments, etc., the “cheat device” will turn off emissions control systems. That’s a “cheat” or a scam, you might say.”
http://www.yourlegaljustice.com/mercedes-benz-emissions-scandal-bluetec-diesel/
Last edited by Steven Gu; Jun 10, 2021 at 10:45 AM.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 39
Likes: 14
E250 4M
This is what I expect from MB going forward.
Had my work done this week to my E250. Going in I knew my add blue heater was broken. Initial dealer report confirmed and had a broken heater with replacement at $2,700. I asked the service manager to go to bat for me to get this also covered by MB. They did and Mercedes paid for the parts and labor for the add blue heater. Car feels a bit more peppy but this may be due to a full system re-set. Over time the trans shift points adapt to driving style and mine is really mellow so I expect in time this perceived peppy-ness will fade.
Now, if you’re Amazon or Fed-Ex and you want all your diesel Sprinter fleets fixed for free, they will probably let their attorneys winnow the fine print of the settlement.
Having said this, I still won’t feel “made whole” by MB until I get a lifetime exhaust system warranty in hand after opting out of the settlement. With that, and regular maintenance to the bottom half of this drivetrain, I expect many more years of happy low-cost, long-range and highly reliable touring in my wonderful E250, from which I’ve had not so much as a hiccup in over 85k miles and 7 years time, the last three of which I’ve done all scheduled maintenance myself.
Last edited by Mawk1; Jun 7, 2021 at 03:17 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 17
Likes: 2
GLK250
My X204/OM651 AEM was completed earlier this week. The car seems to drive well, no perceptible difference (yet). Service report says dealer replaced DPF, SCR catalyst, front exhaust section, and nox sensor with reman parts, reprogrammed the ECU, and deleted the O2 sensor. I will be applying for the reimbursement. I figure with the new warranty I'll get another four years of service out of the car and be satisfied. Can always consider a DPF delete after that if needed.
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I think MB is going to be very generous about repairs for items that are related to the AEM. You may need to advocate a bit for yourself, but I think they just want this to go away for individual/non-commercial owners.
Now, if you’re Amazon or Fed-Ex and you want all your diesel Sprinter fleets fixed for free, they will probably let their attorneys winnow the fine print of the settlement.
Having said this, I still won’t feel “made whole” by MB until I get a lifetime exhaust system warranty in hand after opting out of the settlement. With that, and regular maintenance to the bottom half of this drivetrain, I expect many more years of happy low-cost, long-range and highly reliable touring in my wonderful E250, from which I’ve had not so much as a hiccup in over 85k miles and 7 years time, the last three of which I’ve done all scheduled maintenance myself.
Now, if you’re Amazon or Fed-Ex and you want all your diesel Sprinter fleets fixed for free, they will probably let their attorneys winnow the fine print of the settlement.
Having said this, I still won’t feel “made whole” by MB until I get a lifetime exhaust system warranty in hand after opting out of the settlement. With that, and regular maintenance to the bottom half of this drivetrain, I expect many more years of happy low-cost, long-range and highly reliable touring in my wonderful E250, from which I’ve had not so much as a hiccup in over 85k miles and 7 years time, the last three of which I’ve done all scheduled maintenance myself.
Several Sprinters owners already reported that DEF heaters broke on their van after AEM and after some hassling MB USA is replacing them for no charge. The issue is that on Sprinters the heater is integrated part of $2700 reservoir.
Sure it is going to be interesting 4 years to see.
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 56
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From: Sunapee, NH
1999 CLK430, 2002 SL600 Silver Arrow, 2024 GLS450, 1980 Rolls-Royce Corniche FHC
2014 GL350 after the AEM - harder to start?
Had the emission service performed on my '14 GL350 (80K miles). Was at the dealer for 3 days. They did try to "up-sell" the service slightly - wanted to replace all the air filters (which had been replaced only about 3 months ago), and replace all the wiper blades - for the tidy sum of about $800!
Vehicle performance seems unchanged, mileage is the same, perhaps slightly better by a couple MPG. Have not tried towing trailer yet to see if anything has changed there.
What I have noticed is that in a cold start the engine cranks over once or twice before firing - and then runs fine. Before the service, it would always fire up immediately - wouldn't turn over even once. Called the dealership to ask if this might be related to the service. Got double talk for the answer - they said if something is wrong, than the check engine light should go on. Since there's no warning light, they said it must be a result of the new software and is probably "normal". Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
Based on previous experience with diesels I wouldn't be surprised if something is amiss with the glow plug circuit - or the injection timing my not be quite right when starting. We'll see...
I did ask them to put a note in my service file - in case it becomes really hard to start when it's cold (it's summer in NH right now, so I'm wondering how this upgrade may fare once it's below zero outside).
Has anyone else noticed this behavior?
Vehicle performance seems unchanged, mileage is the same, perhaps slightly better by a couple MPG. Have not tried towing trailer yet to see if anything has changed there.
What I have noticed is that in a cold start the engine cranks over once or twice before firing - and then runs fine. Before the service, it would always fire up immediately - wouldn't turn over even once. Called the dealership to ask if this might be related to the service. Got double talk for the answer - they said if something is wrong, than the check engine light should go on. Since there's no warning light, they said it must be a result of the new software and is probably "normal". Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.
Based on previous experience with diesels I wouldn't be surprised if something is amiss with the glow plug circuit - or the injection timing my not be quite right when starting. We'll see...
I did ask them to put a note in my service file - in case it becomes really hard to start when it's cold (it's summer in NH right now, so I'm wondering how this upgrade may fare once it's below zero outside).
Has anyone else noticed this behavior?
Last edited by mschirmer; Jun 17, 2021 at 03:25 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I had 3 bluetecs done and all of them starts immediately.
Scan for codes. Non crucial code will show on scanner, but will take some tome to fire CEL.
I would also observe rail pressure.
In warm weather the engine will start with no GP.
Scan for codes. Non crucial code will show on scanner, but will take some tome to fire CEL.
I would also observe rail pressure.
In warm weather the engine will start with no GP.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,053
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From: USA - Minnesota
2014 GL350
Yes, and I'm glad you mentioned it because I was wondering if I was imagining it.
My '14 GL350 has about the same milage as yours and I noticed the same thing. It's hard to describe since it always started so quickly before, at least for a diesel, but it does seem to take a couple more revolutions with the starter to fire up. It's all very smooth and there's no other noticeable symptoms other than that very slightly longer start.
Engine cold start is a nightmare for emissions so I would not be surprised if they changed the programming significantly, especially considering that was a major issue with the EPA settlement and the new hardware.
My '14 GL350 has about the same milage as yours and I noticed the same thing. It's hard to describe since it always started so quickly before, at least for a diesel, but it does seem to take a couple more revolutions with the starter to fire up. It's all very smooth and there's no other noticeable symptoms other than that very slightly longer start.
Engine cold start is a nightmare for emissions so I would not be surprised if they changed the programming significantly, especially considering that was a major issue with the EPA settlement and the new hardware.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 5
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2014 E 320
It's been about a month since my 14 E320 received the AEW mods. The car has performed just fine. I do a lot of highway driving and the only noticeable difference might be fuel mileage is a little better; maybe 1 mpg It just passed 90,000 miles and has been problem free, so hopefully that will continue.
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GLK250
Update after trip
After a 600-mile roundtrip through the mountains the car has performed great. Fuel mileage is quite a bit better - I'd never seen 37mpg in this car before now. There is definitely another revolution or two when starting - it no longer catches instantly as it used to with the button. I also notice the glow plug light on briefly during that startup sequence now. The only driveability change I noticed is just the slightest sluggishness when accelerating from a steady speed on the highway. Overall that's a minor consequence.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2021
Posts: 51
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From: Central FL
2014ML 350 Blutec
Yes I also received one and after reading it I was wondering what I missed or didn’t understand. Maybe they are just making us feel better that they still have our names! Might have been something about a final,approval,date? Have to read it again but I don’t think it meant much if you have submitted everything, maybe a blanket reminder to file soon. Didn’t see anything about money disbursal date! Probably still 6 months off.
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
ML350 Bluetec, E250 Bluetec
Hi Folks!
Reqeusting help/advice:
My 2012 ML350 Bluetec has 165,000 miles. Had the AEM done and got a check engine light (CEL) almost immediately. Finally got the car back to dealer last week and complained about the CEL and slow start many of us seem to have. They identifed the CEL as EGR valve, which they are replacing under our new warranty. They told me the slow start was also triggering the CEL and that it was a fuel pump issue located above the fuel tank. They said it was not covered and would cost $2,500 to fix.
Given the number of folks here who have the slow start only after the AEM, and the fact I never had it before the AEM, I'm skeptical. I think I'll push back..but hoping you guys may have some good advice to push with...
Add'l info: Wife's E250 drives very well (better) after AEM. My ML is fine except for the description above.
Take care and thank you all for your help,
Tom
Reqeusting help/advice:
My 2012 ML350 Bluetec has 165,000 miles. Had the AEM done and got a check engine light (CEL) almost immediately. Finally got the car back to dealer last week and complained about the CEL and slow start many of us seem to have. They identifed the CEL as EGR valve, which they are replacing under our new warranty. They told me the slow start was also triggering the CEL and that it was a fuel pump issue located above the fuel tank. They said it was not covered and would cost $2,500 to fix.
Given the number of folks here who have the slow start only after the AEM, and the fact I never had it before the AEM, I'm skeptical. I think I'll push back..but hoping you guys may have some good advice to push with...
Add'l info: Wife's E250 drives very well (better) after AEM. My ML is fine except for the description above.
Take care and thank you all for your help,
Tom
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
You should post the codes as guessing without them will not be precise.
I don't know ML, but all affected diesels that I know have electric fuel pump INSIDE the tank and than HP fuel pump on the engine.
Electric pumps are not that expensive, so $2500 would indicate HP pump.
Those pumps are wearables, although can last, so when 164k, miles might be premature, consider that regural maintenance.
Still try to play hard ball with dealer and call MB hotline for assistance.
I don't know ML, but all affected diesels that I know have electric fuel pump INSIDE the tank and than HP fuel pump on the engine.
Electric pumps are not that expensive, so $2500 would indicate HP pump.
Those pumps are wearables, although can last, so when 164k, miles might be premature, consider that regural maintenance.
Still try to play hard ball with dealer and call MB hotline for assistance.
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 54
Likes: 1
2005 C55 AMG; 2000 CLK320 Cabriolet, 2000 C230 Kompressor & 2001 ML430
I have a 2011 w212 and still waiting too.
i currently have a check engine light for the swirl flap , since the they are on the intake, I am hoping they are covered with the new extended warranty, since the intake is covered apparently . Staying tuned....
i currently have a check engine light for the swirl flap , since the they are on the intake, I am hoping they are covered with the new extended warranty, since the intake is covered apparently . Staying tuned....
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
It is going to be tricky situation, but call your friendly SA and ask him for advise. That is what they are for.
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
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2005 C55 AMG; 2000 CLK320 Cabriolet, 2000 C230 Kompressor & 2001 ML430
there is an extended warranty on several components after the AEM is performed , one of them says intake, and isn’t the flap motor and linkage on the the intake?
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
The extended warranty also says "parts affected by AEM"
It is going to be long debate what is covered and what not.
So far I read that Bluetec sedan owners are refused coverage on DEF heaters, while Sprinter owners have them replaced for no cost.
On Sprinters DEF heater is integrated part of $2500 reservoir, so not cheap part.
It is going to be long debate what is covered and what not.
So far I read that Bluetec sedan owners are refused coverage on DEF heaters, while Sprinter owners have them replaced for no cost.
On Sprinters DEF heater is integrated part of $2500 reservoir, so not cheap part.
