OM642 Longevity
#1
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
OM642 Longevity
Thos started with my oil thread, but wanted to get some opinions/information on OM642 longevity in my 2008 GL320 (US Model). (DPF no DEF)
What are the common failure modes for this engine?
What is the best maintenance to prevent them?
Obviously oil changes, decent fuel, not abusing it with overly short drives, not pushing it hard when cold, keeping the revs down, etc.
Fuel additives?
Oil additives?
Preventative maintenance? Chain early? DPF early? Etc ?
Auxillary fuel filter/water separator?
Auxillary air/oil separator on PCV system?
What warning signs to watch for?
What are the common failure modes for this engine?
What is the best maintenance to prevent them?
Obviously oil changes, decent fuel, not abusing it with overly short drives, not pushing it hard when cold, keeping the revs down, etc.
Fuel additives?
Oil additives?
Preventative maintenance? Chain early? DPF early? Etc ?
Auxillary fuel filter/water separator?
Auxillary air/oil separator on PCV system?
What warning signs to watch for?
#2
Watch out for rising oil consumption. The oil control rings on the pistons is tasked with scraping excess oil off the cyl walls every time the piston goes down. The combination of unburnt fuel and excess heat from every time the DPF regens as well as soot from EGR can make the oil control rings become stuck in the ring groove. Once that happens the ring can no longer scrape oil off the cyl walls so the oil is instead burned in the combustion chamber. The excess oil consumption cloggs up the DPF which forces even more frequent regen cycles which in turn accelerates oil consumption further... it's a run away effect. Once oil consumption starts to increase there's nothing you can do about it besides rebuilt or replace the engine. It doesn't help that MB specified low viscosity gasoline engine oil in its diesel engine but that's a discussion for another thread. I don't think any engine oil can prevent this failure mode, only delay it. If you notice oil consumption rise above baseline even a little bit, sell the car quickly.
Heres an example of a stuck om642 oil control ring. The top 2 compression rings are perfectly normal. This engine cold started and ran perfectly every time with plenty of power when it wasn't in limp home mode. The 3rd ring down is the oil control ring. Notice how it sits flush with the piston. On tear down 4 of 6 oil control rings were stuck. Owner complained of excess oil consumption for years (unknown amount), and getting stuck in limp home mode with DPF codes. The car was dealer maintained it's entire life on the dealer schedule. Dealer installed a new DPF at owners expense which also quickly clogged up. At 220k miles dealer told the owner it needed a new engine at which point he dumped it.
for comparison here are new rings. The piston rings are supposed to be springy, free to press up against the cylinder walls.
Heres an example of a stuck om642 oil control ring. The top 2 compression rings are perfectly normal. This engine cold started and ran perfectly every time with plenty of power when it wasn't in limp home mode. The 3rd ring down is the oil control ring. Notice how it sits flush with the piston. On tear down 4 of 6 oil control rings were stuck. Owner complained of excess oil consumption for years (unknown amount), and getting stuck in limp home mode with DPF codes. The car was dealer maintained it's entire life on the dealer schedule. Dealer installed a new DPF at owners expense which also quickly clogged up. At 220k miles dealer told the owner it needed a new engine at which point he dumped it.
for comparison here are new rings. The piston rings are supposed to be springy, free to press up against the cylinder walls.
Last edited by tjts1; 03-07-2023 at 10:19 AM.
#3
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: V E G A S
Posts: 9,119
Received 1,749 Likes
on
1,394 Posts
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Some of those engines exceeded 1/2 million miles in Sprinters, where they work at least twice harder than in SUV.
Common issue on them are oil cooler seals and intake flaps gumming.
Suppose the seals got updated in later years, but they are still not bulletproof.
For intake gunk, there are intake cleaners available. MB shop in Colorado gives good recommendations. for BG (?) cleaner, who require expensive injector.
I bought Liqui Moly cleaner and still have it on the shelf since all 3 of my Bluetecs run perfectly.
I mean main engines as emission systems are still weak point and lately I had $6000 jobs done on my Sprinter on DEF system.
$5000 covered by warranty and $1020 cash.
Common issue on them are oil cooler seals and intake flaps gumming.
Suppose the seals got updated in later years, but they are still not bulletproof.
For intake gunk, there are intake cleaners available. MB shop in Colorado gives good recommendations. for BG (?) cleaner, who require expensive injector.
I bought Liqui Moly cleaner and still have it on the shelf since all 3 of my Bluetecs run perfectly.
I mean main engines as emission systems are still weak point and lately I had $6000 jobs done on my Sprinter on DEF system.
$5000 covered by warranty and $1020 cash.
Last edited by kajtek1; 03-07-2023 at 11:32 AM.
The following 3 users liked this post by kajtek1:
#4
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
Are there any fuel additives that help the rings before they are stuck?
if it was a gas engine I would fill each cylinder with solvent. Let it sit and then turn it over slowly a few times.
I don't know what to do with a diesel.
Guess you could do about the same, but would have to pull the injectors or glow plugs.
And I understand that also has risks.
if it was a gas engine I would fill each cylinder with solvent. Let it sit and then turn it over slowly a few times.
I don't know what to do with a diesel.
Guess you could do about the same, but would have to pull the injectors or glow plugs.
And I understand that also has risks.
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: V E G A S
Posts: 9,119
Received 1,749 Likes
on
1,394 Posts
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
I don't know tjts votes for using oil outside of MB classifications and now he comes with frozen piston rings.
Never heard about frozen piston rings from people who did use proper oils.
Never heard about frozen piston rings from people who did use proper oils.
The following users liked this post:
gone gone gone (11-16-2023)
#6
😂
Last edited by tjts1; 03-07-2023 at 10:49 PM.
The following users liked this post:
olesouthernboy (06-21-2023)
#7
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
So . . .
Are stuck rings the high failure item?
What oil do MB dealers put in Sprinters?
I see a lot of commercial Sprinters getting service at MB dealers?
given that companies with fleets would more quickly notice correlation between MB service and failures, they must be doing something right.
If they use a CK oil, maybe 228.51, does it shorten DPF life, or maybe DPF replacement is seen like other service items and expected at some number of miles/years?
All that aside, other suggestions for longevity would be great.
Are stuck rings the high failure item?
What oil do MB dealers put in Sprinters?
I see a lot of commercial Sprinters getting service at MB dealers?
given that companies with fleets would more quickly notice correlation between MB service and failures, they must be doing something right.
If they use a CK oil, maybe 228.51, does it shorten DPF life, or maybe DPF replacement is seen like other service items and expected at some number of miles/years?
All that aside, other suggestions for longevity would be great.
Last edited by N_Jay; 03-08-2023 at 09:01 AM.
Trending Topics
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: V E G A S
Posts: 9,119
Received 1,749 Likes
on
1,394 Posts
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Oils don't have direct affect on DPF life, but read the topic about seized engines.
When it was never investigated that far, some indication shows that 228.51 category oils dealers put in those engine, created phenomena turning oils into gelatin.
Modern diesels require much more than just lubrication from the oils.
When it was never investigated that far, some indication shows that 228.51 category oils dealers put in those engine, created phenomena turning oils into gelatin.
Modern diesels require much more than just lubrication from the oils.
#9
Last edited by tjts1; 03-08-2023 at 12:03 PM.
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: V E G A S
Posts: 9,119
Received 1,749 Likes
on
1,394 Posts
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
You need to work on your English comprehension. As I wrote, there was nothing proven as the owners usually wear out with field of lawyers MB USA has on its payroll.
When dealers denied any wrongdoing, the owners check that they most likely used the oil they had in bulk in barrels, not spending big money the 229.52 cost at the time.
Doesn't take much thinking what oils MB dealers used in bulk 5 or 10 years ago. At least for person who knows something about oils.
When dealers denied any wrongdoing, the owners check that they most likely used the oil they had in bulk in barrels, not spending big money the 229.52 cost at the time.
Doesn't take much thinking what oils MB dealers used in bulk 5 or 10 years ago. At least for person who knows something about oils.
The following users liked this post:
gone gone gone (11-16-2023)
#11
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
#12
SAPS doesn't kill a DPF, it cloggs it up. You can always take off the DPF and have it cleaned out, reinstall and it's still good. I've seen these engines burn 1qt/100 miles, constant limp home mode and that DPF can still be brought back to life. SAPS is only a issue for MB's emissions compliance perspective. If the DPF cloggs up before 150k? miles it's a warranty claim they have to deal with. They'd rather have your engine destroy itself on low SAPS oil than deal with a DPF warranty claim. There are very good reasons why diesel engine oils are engineered with certain additives. MB decided to tell its owners to use low SAPS gasoline oil in diesels engines to protect their bottom line. They know that of the engine fails on low SAPS oil, it'll probably happen outside the shorter engine warranty period. You have to choose between your engine longevity or having the DPF cleaned once in a while. We already know what Mercedes chose for you.
Last edited by tjts1; 03-08-2023 at 05:16 PM.
#13
Out Of Control!!
Thread Starter
SAPS doesn't kill a DPF, it cloggs it up. You can always take off the DPF and have it cleaned out, reinstall and it's still good. I've seen these engines burn 1qt/100 miles, constant limp home mode and that DPF can still be brought back to life. SAPS is only a issue for MB's emissions compliance perspective. If the DPF cloggs up before 150k? miles it's a warranty claim they have to deal with. They'd rather have your engine destroy itself on low SAPS oil than deal with a DPF warranty claim. There are very good reasons why diesel engine oils are engineered with certain additives. MB decided to tell its owners to use low SAPS gasoline oil in diesels engines to protect their bottom line. They know that of the engine fails on low SAPS oil, it'll probably happen outside the shorter engine warranty period. You have to choose between your engine longevity or having the DPF cleaned once in a while. We already know what Mercedes chose for you.
https://youtube.com/shorts/NArwYdVReUA?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/NArwYdVReUA?feature=share
Something doesn't add up?
#14
CK-4
229.52
But more importantly, CK-4 oils are engineered for diesel engines, 229.52 oils are engineered for gasoline engines. Choose wisely.
Last edited by tjts1; 03-08-2023 at 09:11 PM.
The following users liked this post:
E55Greasemonkey (04-13-2023)
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: V E G A S
Posts: 9,119
Received 1,749 Likes
on
1,394 Posts
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Was the owner listening to your advise of using oils without MB classifications?
#17
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SC
Posts: 86
Received 28 Likes
on
22 Posts
2013 GL350, 2002 ML320, 1995 E300D, 1983 E300TD-D
2013 GL350 198k+ 56k past AEM. Burns no oil between 5k OCI and runs like a top. Just replaced engine mounts so that tells you how I drive it, pretty hard. I have owned it since 92k miles and ran T6 in it for about 50k and delvac ESP 5-40 since about 150k. I know the oil thing starts plenty of arguments however, I do subscribe to a diesel needs diesel oil. If the DPF has to be replaced a little sooner so be it. I’m getting between 425 & 490 miles average between regens.
#18
Senior Member
2013 GL350 198k+ 56k past AEM. Burns no oil between 5k OCI and runs like a top. Just replaced engine mounts so that tells you how I drive it, pretty hard. I have owned it since 92k miles and ran T6 in it for about 50k and delvac ESP 5-40 since about 150k. I know the oil thing starts plenty of arguments however, I do subscribe to a diesel needs diesel oil. If the DPF has to be replaced a little sooner so be it. I’m getting between 425 & 490 miles average between regens.
Recently my GL350 had a check engine light after period of time with nothing but short trips. I told my wife to take a trip on highway for a while and the light went away. I’m guessing these don’t have a separate DPF light?
#19
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SC
Posts: 86
Received 28 Likes
on
22 Posts
2013 GL350, 2002 ML320, 1995 E300D, 1983 E300TD-D
Is there a way to tell when the vehicle is doing a regen or when it needs one? My VW TDI will have a DPF light, and run the fans (plus a noticeable smell).
Recently my GL350 had a check engine light after period of time with nothing but short trips. I told my wife to take a trip on highway for a while and the light went away. I’m guessing these don’t have a separate DPF light?
Recently my GL350 had a check engine light after period of time with nothing but short trips. I told my wife to take a trip on highway for a while and the light went away. I’m guessing these don’t have a separate DPF light?
#20
Senior Member
Does the MB just use the CEL instead of a specific DPF light?
#21
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SC
Posts: 86
Received 28 Likes
on
22 Posts
2013 GL350, 2002 ML320, 1995 E300D, 1983 E300TD-D
#22
Senior Member
Found my answer. The clogged DPF will give a check engine light under code P2463XX. So there is not a seperate indicator for DPF like the VW has. If I see it again I will get it scanned to be sure. We cleared the code by taking a trip on the highway.
The following users liked this post:
olesouthernboy (06-23-2023)
#23
Karma
Wrong oil - Stuck rings.
But it's not my fault 'cause I know more than MB.
MAybe he asked Sephens what oil to use.
Just use oils that are approved for 229.52 and you will be fine. I'm only just turning 160k miles, Don't burn a drop between 7500 mile OCIs.
Wrong oil - Stuck rings.
But it's not my fault 'cause I know more than MB.
MAybe he asked Sephens what oil to use.
Just use oils that are approved for 229.52 and you will be fine. I'm only just turning 160k miles, Don't burn a drop between 7500 mile OCIs.
Last edited by gone gone gone; 07-03-2023 at 10:43 AM.
#24
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: V E G A S
Posts: 9,119
Received 1,749 Likes
on
1,394 Posts
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Only in last years MB start installing DEF level gauges.
Turn out important as on some models DEF has heater above the bottom, so low fluid level would expose the heater, overheat and burn it.
On Sprinters the heater is integrated part of $3000 reservoir.
#25
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Beaters 'til they die