E-Class (W124) 1984-1995: E 260, E 300, E 320, E 420, E 500 (Includes CE, T, TD models)

Possible Modifications to 1991 300ce?

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Old 04-20-2010, 02:42 PM
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1989 300ce
from my notes on w124, the k=xxxx equates to the rear end ratio to be used with that speedo

on a 124, stickers on the speedo head

k=1425 is 3.69
k=1330 is 3.46
k=1200 is 3.07
k=1100 is 2.88
_______________
Old 04-20-2010, 02:50 PM
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Thanks, that's useful info!
Old 04-20-2010, 09:51 PM
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Originally Posted by teezer
from my notes on w124, the k=xxxx equates to the rear end ratio to be used with that speedo

on a 124, stickers on the speedo head

k=1425 is 3.69
k=1330 is 3.46
k=1200 is 3.07
k=1100 is 2.88
_______________
Really awesome, thanks a ton man!
Old 04-20-2010, 09:55 PM
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Originally Posted by AMGDave
Any gearing change will require a speedometer adjustment, so that's a bare minimum requirement. Most diff swaps will require *some* amount of hardware changes, but it varies depending on the donor.
Hmm, I think Rick @ OverSeasSpeedo can do the gear change. I hope he is still well and in business, he didn't get back to p2scho which surprised me
Originally Posted by AMGDave
OK - just remember that the lower gears will also cause more traction problems, which may not be an issue with a stock engine, but if you make more power it's not always fun to watch it go up in smoke when you're not trying to.
Very true. Also a big issue seeing as I don't have Traction Control on this thinger.
Originally Posted by AMGDave
Well, non-North American anyway, in the 124, for 210mm diffs. There might be something from a US-spec W140/S320 but you'll have to do some homework.
Eh, I think I'm going to give this line of thought up. Difficulty seems to outweigh any potential benefits.
Originally Posted by AMGDave
Depends on the donor. Might be as easy as swapping rear covers, or it could get more complicated with swapping output flanges, or the input flange (which requires a special tool to do correctly).
Way beyond me, and I don't know of a shop/indie that will undertake that kind of work nearby. Dead-ended methinks.
Originally Posted by AMGDave
Lemme put it this way - I'd rather spend the ~$1500 for limited-slip in your current diff, than $300 for lower gears. LSD will help put power to the ground, lower gears do not; they mostly just get the engine into the powerband a bit quicker from low speeds. If you had an E320 coupe with 2.65 gears I could understand wanting something a bit lower, but sheesh, you're already at 3.27...!
This may sound stupid, but how does LSD affect the handling dynamics of the car under cornering/accelerating? Would it push the car more towards neutral, understeer, or oversteer?

Also, do they in any way add drag to the trans and slow you down, or is that only for AWD?

Thanks
Old 04-21-2010, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib
This may sound stupid, but how does LSD affect the handling dynamics of the car under cornering/accelerating? Would it push the car more towards neutral, understeer, or oversteer?
Well, it depends. In theory it will push things more towards oversteer... from understeer to neutral, or neutral to oversteer. This is mostly true if there is enough lockup (or not enough grip), which allows both rear tires to spin, which will let the rear end come out. However, the "limited" part of limited-slip usually keeps this from happening, at least on clean dry pavement.

The most noticeable change is on wet or dirty pavement... with the stock open diff, when turning from a stop sign I'd often sit there and spin one tire. You have to let off the throttle and wait for it to hook up again - very annoying. With LSD driving both tires, it will push the car forward instead of sitting there, unless neither tire has traction. On really slick surfaces (snow/ice) you're more likely to encounter oversteer with LSD than without it, but it will also get you moving in a straight line where you might otherwise be stuck. Installing LSD in my 1987 300D completely cured the "one wheel peel" problem, I can turn and hit the throttle and actually accelerate! It won't cut throttle like ASR so you'll need to do that yourself if required.



Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib
Also, do they in any way add drag to the trans and slow you down, or is that only for AWD?
There is a tiny amount of added drag just due to the extra components inside the diff, but we're talking miniscule amounts - nothing like AWD where you have a whole transfer case plus front axles driving front wheels, connected to the whole mass of the wheels/tires/rotors/axles/etc. The improved traction greatly outweighs any tiny loss from the added differential weight.


Old 04-23-2010, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by AMGDave
Well, it depends. In theory it will push things more towards oversteer... from understeer to neutral, or neutral to oversteer. This is mostly true if there is enough lockup (or not enough grip), which allows both rear tires to spin, which will let the rear end come out. However, the "limited" part of limited-slip usually keeps this from happening, at least on clean dry pavement.
Ahh, okay. I'm looking to shift the car from understeer towards neutral/slightly oversteer. I can handle that a lot easier than I can deal with understeer. I hate how my friend's GTI drives once it breaks traction. Blegh.
Originally Posted by AMGDave
The most noticeable change is on wet or dirty pavement... with the stock open diff, when turning from a stop sign I'd often sit there and spin one tire. You have to let off the throttle and wait for it to hook up again - very annoying. With LSD driving both tires, it will push the car forward instead of sitting there, unless neither tire has traction. On really slick surfaces (snow/ice) you're more likely to encounter oversteer with LSD than without it, but it will also get you moving in a straight line where you might otherwise be stuck. Installing LSD in my 1987 300D completely cured the "one wheel peel" problem, I can turn and hit the throttle and actually accelerate! It won't cut throttle like ASR so you'll need to do that yourself if required.
Good good. Pretty much exactly what I want to hear. I feel like my car is really dead under heavy cornering situations to the point that I can barely accelerate. This may also be due to something else because it feels more like the engine is struggling to produce power rather than wheel spin, but this should help my AutoX a bit.
Originally Posted by AMGDave
There is a tiny amount of added drag just due to the extra components inside the diff, but we're talking miniscule amounts - nothing like AWD where you have a whole transfer case plus front axles driving front wheels, connected to the whole mass of the wheels/tires/rotors/axles/etc. The improved traction greatly outweighs any tiny loss from the added differential weight.
Hmm, okay. I'd like to not have my fuel economy completely go to **** and this seems like it won't hurt much if at all.

The LSD documents are on your site right? I'll have to give them a pouring over.

If you could, about how many hour's job is the LSD install into the rear diff? Is it something I need a specialist for or is it a job a decent mechanic should be able to tackle?

Thanks as always!
Old 04-23-2010, 02:13 PM
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Updates:
Got my K&N filter today, will try heatwrapping my intake (Just for yucks, only cost me 4$ in HVAC supplies lol).

Managed to get a 94/95 e320 wheel/airbag/ring from Joe for an amazing deal, thank you a ton Joe!
Excited to have a slightly nicer wheel + a safe airbag! Now I can upgrade easier to a newer wheel if I find one for cheap.

To Do:
Check sparkplugs and see how each one is doing. I suspect that they are fouled at this point. I am thinking NGK Iridium plugs. Sound good?
Attached Thumbnails Possible Modifications to 1991 300ce?-dscf4064.jpg   Possible Modifications to 1991 300ce?-dscf4065.jpg   Possible Modifications to 1991 300ce?-dscf4066.jpg   Possible Modifications to 1991 300ce?-dscf4067.jpg  

Last edited by Saijin_Naib; 04-23-2010 at 07:04 PM.
Old 04-23-2010, 04:40 PM
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Ed, I have no idea where to install my oil catch can between. Can you help me out?


Last edited by Saijin_Naib; 04-23-2010 at 07:06 PM.
Old 04-23-2010, 06:56 PM
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Update:
US Spec Amber Reflector Housing is NOT compatible with Euro Spec fog reflector housing. Sad, sad day.
Looks like I could force them in and install them, but they are shaped differently and I assume throw light a bit different.
I'm again on the hunt for Euro Spec Amber Fog Reflector Housings.

Update:
I've installed one side (Right Side) of my new wiper panels/wiper motors. The motor does not appear to be active although it is hooked up to the harness properly. Is there a fuse or something I may be missing?
Attached Thumbnails Possible Modifications to 1991 300ce?-photo076.jpg   Possible Modifications to 1991 300ce?-photo077.jpg   Possible Modifications to 1991 300ce?-dscf4069.jpg  

Last edited by Saijin_Naib; 04-23-2010 at 07:06 PM.
Old 04-24-2010, 02:00 PM
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Question:
Is it possible to safely remove and re-insert the spark plugs without the special pliers/tool Mercedes specifies in the repair manual?

I tried manually pulling them out and it was a no-go.
Old 04-24-2010, 07:59 PM
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Thanks Rik for the guide, managed to finally get my warning triangle installed.
Also adjusted the spring tension for the decklid to the furthest spot so that the trunk lid will open and close properly.
Attached Thumbnails Possible Modifications to 1991 300ce?-dscf4070.jpg   Possible Modifications to 1991 300ce?-dscf4071.jpg   Possible Modifications to 1991 300ce?-dscf4072.jpg  
Old 04-26-2010, 01:21 AM
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I'm reading through the w124 Shop Manual and I've come across the section on m104 Program Repairs for CIS-E. I've found this heading:
Complaint: Engine misfires around fuel reserve quantity and when cornering.

I do believe that this is what I've been experiencing in my car when I try to accelerate out of a hard cornering situation. The engine feels like it sort of dies off for a bit until the car becomes level and mostly straightened out. Once the car is level again the engine pulls strong, but while cornering and just after, it feels really limp. I don't hear tire spin and I don't feel it losing grip so I think it must be something with the fuel system.

The repair in the manual is to replace the fuel tank () I'm certain that after 20 years of fueling that it has probably accumulated some crap in the tank, especially since we've not always run the highest grade/quality fuel in it.

Do you think it could possibly be fixed by changing out the mesh strainer in the fuel tank and maybe trying to remove/lift out any debris, or should I just have someone replace the tank?

Or am I misdiagnosing this? The car maintains full power when straight/level but sometimes gets a bit limp when cornering. I've not noticed this behavior at any other time.

Thanks guys.
Old 04-26-2010, 01:24 AM
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1990 300ce 24v I6
Air Temp Sensor

What exactly does this bad-boy do? It is located on the side of my intake duct right before the airbox. Mine is rather laden with buildup/crap and I'm not certain if it is reading properly.

Obviously, this measures the intake air temperature. What effect does this have on the car if this is not working 100% properly? Can this be cleaned manually? I've got Tuff Stuff (general purpose cleaner, works amazing on pretty much anything) + a hard bristle toothbrush which I could take to it, but I'm not certain whether or not I would break it?
Old 04-26-2010, 09:21 AM
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Brett

Oil catch can...

Looking at the front of the car, mount it to the right or the side where the vent hose runs from the engine to the ait cleaner.

You should have room in the front fender area near the ABS and behind the headlight.

Ed A.
Old 04-26-2010, 09:25 AM
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88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib
Obviously, this measures the intake air temperature. What effect does this have on the car if this is not working 100% properly? Can this be cleaned manually? I've got Tuff Stuff (general purpose cleaner, works amazing on pretty much anything) + a hard bristle toothbrush which I could take to it, but I'm not certain whether or not I would break it?
Clean it, I'd use a solvent or even gasoline.
It slightly enrichens the AFR until the intake air temp warms up

Last edited by RBYCC; 04-26-2010 at 09:44 AM.
Old 04-26-2010, 09:26 AM
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88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib
I'm reading through the w124 Shop Manual and I've come across the section on m104 Program Repairs for CIS-E. I've found this heading:
Complaint: Engine misfires around fuel reserve quantity and when cornering.

I do believe that this is what I've been experiencing in my car when I try to accelerate out of a hard cornering situation. The engine feels like it sort of dies off for a bit until the car becomes level and mostly straightened out. Once the car is level again the engine pulls strong, but while cornering and just after, it feels really limp. I don't hear tire spin and I don't feel it losing grip so I think it must be something with the fuel system.

The repair in the manual is to replace the fuel tank () I'm certain that after 20 years of fueling that it has probably accumulated some crap in the tank, especially since we've not always run the highest grade/quality fuel in it.

Do you think it could possibly be fixed by changing out the mesh strainer in the fuel tank and maybe trying to remove/lift out any debris, or should I just have someone replace the tank?

Or am I misdiagnosing this? The car maintains full power when straight/level but sometimes gets a bit limp when cornering. I've not noticed this behavior at any other time.

Thanks guys.
Have you ever changed your fuel filter ?
Old 04-26-2010, 09:28 AM
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88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib
Question:
Is it possible to safely remove and re-insert the spark plugs without the special pliers/tool Mercedes specifies in the repair manual?

I tried manually pulling them out and it was a no-go.
Brett

Are you saying you can't remove the spark plug wire from the plug?

Don't pull by the wire...
Hold it by the insulator boot/sleeve and wiggle or rotate.
They should then pop off.

Ed A.
Old 04-26-2010, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib
The LSD documents are on your site right? I'll have to give them a pouring over.
It's mostly photos of my two LSD builds, but yes. I just used the factory service manual for documentation.



Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib
If you could, about how many hour's job is the LSD install into the rear diff? Is it something I need a specialist for or is it a job a decent mechanic should be able to tackle?
You have to ask the mechanic... if they've done it before, they will let you know. But in general you'd need to have a rear-end (differential / driveline) shop do actual LSD install. Most mechanics would likely remove the diff from the car for you, then send it to the rear-end shop for the LSD conversion, then re-install the modified diff back in your car. Two separate steps. Wild guesses would be approx 4 hours to R&R the diff from the car, and then roughly another $400-$500 to have the new LSD carrier put into the diff. Plus the cost of the parts. And this assumes you are NOT changing gears. If they try to talk you into a full rebuild, I'd decline, unless your diff is noisy right now.



Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib
Obviously, this measures the intake air temperature. What effect does this have on the car if this is not working 100% properly?
It may also pull ignition timing when air temps get too high. Clean it, and you can also check if it's working properly via an ohm meter.
Old 04-26-2010, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RBYCC
Brett
Oil catch can...

Looking at the front of the car, mount it to the right or the side where the vent hose runs from the engine to the ait cleaner.

You should have room in the front fender area near the ABS and behind the headlight.
Ed A.
Okay, so I am bypassing the breather hose (2 in this picture)?


Sorry, I know I'm being a bit slow with this
Old 04-26-2010, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RBYCC
Clean it, I'd use a solvent or even gasoline.
It slightly enrichens the AFR until the intake air temp warms up
Alright, excellent. Will do that now.
Old 04-26-2010, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by RBYCC
Have you ever changed your fuel filter ?
Which one? The mesh strainer inside the tank or the stand-alone unit that is somewhere outside the gas tank?

I'm 99% sure the answer is no to both of those.
Old 04-26-2010, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RBYCC
Brett
Are you saying you can't remove the spark plug wire from the plug?

Don't pull by the wire...
Hold it by the insulator boot/sleeve and wiggle or rotate.
They should then pop off.

Ed A.
Yeah, I was grabbing the red plastic boot and applying what I thought was a fair amount of force but it just stayed quite happily in place. I figured I was going to strip something or break something so I just let it go.

I saw the MB tool in the shop manual and I figured it was probably one of the times that a special tool is necessary so I gave it up.

I guess I'll go ahead and give them another yank to see.
Old 04-26-2010, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AMGDave
It's mostly photos of my two LSD builds, but yes. I just used the factory service manual for documentation.

You have to ask the mechanic... if they've done it before, they will let you know. But in general you'd need to have a rear-end (differential / driveline) shop do actual LSD install. Most mechanics would likely remove the diff from the car for you, then send it to the rear-end shop for the LSD conversion, then re-install the modified diff back in your car. Two separate steps. Wild guesses would be approx 4 hours to R&R the diff from the car, and then roughly another $400-$500 to have the new LSD carrier put into the diff. Plus the cost of the parts. And this assumes you are NOT changing gears. If they try to talk you into a full rebuild, I'd decline, unless your diff is noisy right now.
Hmm, alright. Not too terribly expensive but certainly something I can't afford right now. I'll back-burner this. Thanks for the info though, certainly going to come in handy.
Originally Posted by AMGDave
It may also pull ignition timing when air temps get too high. Clean it, and you can also check if it's working properly via an ohm meter.
Hmm, okay. Is the proper spec/reading for it available in the shop manual? I've got my multimeter sitting here with me so I can take a reading so long as I know what I'm looking for.
Old 04-26-2010, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Saijin_Naib
Hmm, okay. Is the proper spec/reading for it available in the shop manual? I've got my multimeter sitting here with me so I can take a reading so long as I know what I'm looking for.
Here is a link for the IAT sensor values on the M119 / LH injection... however I don't think your M104 / CIS sensor is the same. Maybe check if they are the same part number in the EPC, if so, here's the chart!

http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...sor_values.pdf

Old 04-30-2010, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by AMGDave
Here is a link for the IAT sensor values on the M119 / LH injection... however I don't think your M104 / CIS sensor is the same. Maybe check if they are the same part number in the EPC, if so, here's the chart!

http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...sor_values.pdf

Thanks Dave. I cleaned it with ToughStuff & my bristle brush and a fair amount of crap came off of it so I think that may have helped. I've not gotten around to taking the multimeter to it yet, I got distracted by something else as I'm wont to do.


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