AMGDave

I think you're on the right track. Since it has sentimental value to you, I'd keep the car and turn it into a long-term project. Eventually it will need a rebuild or different engine, but you worry about that later. In the meantime, you might want to keep your eye out for a deal on another W124 that will become a daily driver... my recommendation would be a 94/95 E420 with ASR and heated seats. Best bang for the buck, IMO....

Saijin_Naib

Indeed, this has entered project car status. Now I have a bit more leeway to make some progress on it. However, the money I'd drop on buying another DD would put me that much further behind in project status >_<

The cars I'd be interested in for Daily Drivers are diesel vehicles. Possibly a w124 diesel, maybe a w123 300CD. However, I'm liking the Smart Diesel as well as the B200 CDI despite being FWD :\

I guess it can remain my DD as it has not become unreliable, just a bit slow and prone to trapping me inside the vehicle with no AC and windows, which isn't terrible now that Winter is coming on.

Does anyone know what, if any, the difference between the Renntech 3.6L conversion and the AMG 3.6L conversion is? I'm still not sold on swapping the engine for a C36 as I'd need a tech who could change the trans/dash/electronics/fuel system over as well. I'm hoping with the Renntech/AMG scavenger build that I'd be able to keep everything as is and just tweak the engine a bit to start.

I've got a quote $6825 from Renntech which doesn't seem TOO bad given I'd be getting all new parts and would be accomplishing two goals at once: 1) Restore engine to "like new" state 2) Haul *** (displacement mod)

ksing44

If you really do consider a new diesel DD, I think you should definitely try the VW Golf TDI. I love my new car. The thing handles great. I love the 6-speed manual. The car is quiet, comfortable, and a joy to drive. I have averaged just over 40 mpg for 8,000 miles and can exceed 50 mpg on an all highway drive if I don't drive at 80 mph. Honestly, I feel less and less sentimental about the E320 the more I drive my new 2010 Golf TDI.

Saijin_Naib

If the new VW Golf TDI came in well below the 5k mark, I would give it a shot :P Budgetary restraints are ever-present for me.

Did Porsche ever delve into Diesels? My friend just traded his tuned to hell mark 4.5 GTI for a 944 Turbo (951), aka, my practical dream car. He's in love and has begun to tune it already. I'd love a 944 diesel

AMGDave

Nope, I'm not sure, but RENNtech tends to copy AMG's work, often using AMG parts. They could be nearly identical. (??)



Why not buy a used C36 engine, refresh it as needed (seals/gaskets/etc) and modify the existing mechanical injection to feed the extra displacement? You're right, swapping the entire ME injection system from the C36 into the W124 would be a challenge, although it would also offer much better end results (IMO). Seems that there would be awfully low ROI on boring a block and fitting a custom crank into an existing 3.2L when you can buy a complete (used) one with all the heavy lifting already done by AMG 15 years ago.



That sounds awfully cheap. I'm assuming the $6825 quote was for a short block only, no heads or cam. (??) Their old W124 brochure quotes $13,950 for the full treatment with cams. They do claim a higher power figure than a stock C36 but I've always questioned RENNtech's power figures, particularly for the M119 airbox & chip (I know, I know, apples & oranges, but it still makes me wonder).


Any VW TDI will be the most economical DD you can get, short of finding an old 190D with a 5-speed. I spent many years in VW diesels (and a couple 16v's) but I wouldn't go back. The 2010 model comes with a nice factory warranty of course but the price tag reflects that luxury, and I don't think Saijin wants to spend that kind of $$$ (but the dealer will be happy to "work the numbers" to get the payment down! LOL!)

Saijin_Naib

Here is the full quote of what Bob from Renntech sent me regarding the pricing:
Bob also had this to say about the parts, so I think you are correct in thinking they share much of the same with the AMG build.

AMGDave

That makes more sense. He was quoting main parts only, not everything (no gaskets or head work!), and no labor. To make that a fully running engine you're looking at near $10k if you DIY (with local machine shop) or $14k+ to have RENNtech do it for you. Suddenly a 500E is looking more tempting, eh? (j/k!)



That price is WAY high, IMO - $3700 OBO? Sheesh. The warranty is useless unless you can fire the engine up and test it out within the (unspecified) warranty period, which isn't good for a long-term project where the motor might collect dust for months or years. That particular seller (bassfisher4) doesn't have a good feedback rating either - read all their negative & neutrals.

By comparison, Pomotac German in MD (a reputable MB recyler) has a C36 motor for $1450, but with 145kmi. They have another (with more miles) for $1800 (that's odd).

Carbooks

Hello Saijin:

To convert your engine into an AMG 3.6 you would need the following parts, in addition to the list below you'll need gaskets, bearings and probably a few other little things.
Then there's machine work.
Before buying AMG's over priced and frequesntly incorrect gaskets I'd contact Fel-Pro, sometimes they do custom work and then you know it's right.
As a side note... someone said the M119 head gaskets are around $1000 each, at that price Mr. Aufrect better come over and install it himself and have a bottle of Johnnie Blue handy too.

Pistons HWA 104 030 16 18
Rods HWA 104 030 02 20
Crank HWA 104 031 01 01
Cam HWA 104 050 04 01
Cam Adjuster HWA 104 050 06 47
Oil Nozzle HWA 104 180 02 43
Oil Baffle HWA 104 010 01 61
Rocker Arm HWA 104 051 01 03
Valve Spring HWA 104 053 02 20
Valve Spring Retainer Top HWA 104 053 01 25
Valve Spring Retainer Bottom HWA 104 053 02 25

I'm tired of hearing how difficult it is to get this and that and they have to get them from Germany, these are off the shelf parts (assuming they have any stock), period. Nothing more. Big deal, place an order, give then a CC and 2 weeks later you have the stuff in your hands. It's done a million times a day throughout the world.
If you're serious send an email to Speed Auto-Teille and a few other places in Europe and the UK and ask for a quote on all the parts. Maybe if you're nice Tom at the Classic Car Center in Irvine can unblock them for you, but they'd probably be more expensive than Speed Auto-Teille in Berlin.

It's easy for the dealers, you did all the work in getting the numbers, they transmit the order and make a profit for cutting and pasting your email to the order desk. That's why they are called Stealers.

If you'd like I'll have Young Miss Rima compose and translate a letter into German for you.
A better, and cheaper, idea for the cam is contact a grinder and tell him the specs and what you'd like to accomplish and see what the charges are for a grind on your cam, I bet a couple of hundred dollars at most. The AMG item is probably around $1000 I seem to recall.
Short of passing the hat I bet the collective wisdom on this list could get your car back in top shape in no time at all.
You might want to pick up a junk 104 engine so there is little down time on your car.

Kind Regards,

Ron

Saijin_Naib

1992 400e Horn Contact Ring just arrived from member: Hanno
Looks to be complete and ready to go, just want confirmation if possible.

Thanks to all involved. I think I'm going to use the 94 wheel/bag from JoeF for now and maybe later get the molded wheel

Saijin_Naib

If the 500e was a coupe or they had made a 500ce, I would have jumped on that years ago :P (well, at least in my mind). I figure, this is the only way I'll ever have a bad-*** coupe short of getting the w208 CLK55 AMG coupe (which is the last CLK I like besides the Black Edition).
My concern with the used motor is that I'll spend (lets say for the 145kmi motor) the 1450 to get the motor to pull the parts, and have to get all new parts or mostly new parts anyway to refresh it to a like-new state. Or would this process still be cheaper than just straight ordering the parts from Renntech/Mercedes? What would and would not be "new" in that engine at 145k? Gaskets/seals will all be shot right, so what would still be okay to swap over?

Saijin_Naib

Thanks a ton Ron! That is quite the list of parts there. I'll give a few suppliers a call and see if I can't get them to give me a ballpark price for the parts listed. Where did you get this list? Is there a diagram or something I can view to get the ancillary parts or do I just need to have a knowledgeable tech who would know what is left?

Carbooks

ALL gaskets and seals should be replaced and basically... if it doesn't move and you can drop it on the floor without damaging it - it is OK to swap over.

When you get into it I'll give you some general tips on prepping a block and head.
Manifolds are OK to swap over but get a die grinder and do some port matching, if you want to enlarge the ports get the cam specs first.
I'd rebuild EVERYTHING while it's off the engine, easier and cheaper that way.
Also... might as well make a concours looking engine while it's out of the car. I'm big on powder coating, easy to keep clean and looking new.

List came from the EURO EPC, you really need to get a subscription and at $10 or so for a year it's the best buy in the Mercedes world.

Kind Regards,

Ron

AMGDave

A good used engine with 145k will still have a good crankshaft, rods, pistons, and cams... and those are the high-dollar items you'd have to buy new if converting a 3.0L or 3.2L motor. It also shouldn't need any machine work on the bottom end (nor the top end, for that matter). If the used motor is tight, all you would do is replace "soft" parts like gaskets/seals. Honestly, unless there was reason to suspect othewise, I'd drop it in nearly untouched except for a front & rear main seal and valve cover gasket(s) - then only take it apart for a refresh later on if necessary. You've got a better than 50/50 chance that the motor will be in good shape as delivered. Most reputable salvage yards do a compression test before pulling the engine, some will even tell you the compression readings. This will also ensure there's not a dead cylinder (or two, like on your existing engine).

Bottom line: Don't spend more money than necessary, and don't replace things that ain't broke - especially when you don't have the discretionary funds burning a hole in your Swiss banque account. You could buy five good used AMG C36 engines for the cost of one new RENNtech motor!

Saijin_Naib

Sweet, thanks again Ron. I've got the Free Subscription to the EPC which AFAIK only limits me to not getting Item Pricing, right? So I'll see if I can't get together a list of extra parts to supplement what you've given me thus far.

I've been trying to figure out of the exhaust manifolds on the C36 (later m104) will work on the early m104 in my car. I believe there is some issue with maybe a sensor location? If they are compatible, I was thinking about maybe getting custom ones made or checking out the ones from Bekkers.

Saijin_Naib

Mm, I'm still not sure the swap of the whole engine over is feasible. I'll have to ask my mechanic if he'd be willing to tackle that (the electronics fiddling). Lets say I just buy the C36 engine for a parts pull, meaning my block is going to be bored out to match the C36 dimensions. I should still come in well below the Renntech price right? I'm getting most of the mech bits from the C36 block but adding the cost of a cylinder bore (I'm guessing 1-2k?), so I'm guessing that I'll be looking at around 7k all said and done.

Saijin_Naib

Saw this badboy at my school's lot back in the cool-kid section (WRX/WRX/WRX/EVO/EVO/GTI/GTI/EVO).

Mad that those actually look really nice on that car. When am I going to have a nice looking ride? Damnit.

Also, pretty sure one of the status signs at the Klee's carwash is the front end/grille edge of a red/burgundy w124. Pretty awesome Going to go back and snipe a shot as I'm going through.

Saijin_Naib

Anyone find it odd/sad that our steering wheel diameter is the same as the stock rim diameter?

I bet there was a reason :P I remember hearing something about how it made the pre-power steering cars more manageable to drive.

AMGDave

Ah, but it's already been done successfully. Neil V put a C36 engine into his 1988 300TE wagon and it worked great. I believe he swapped all the C36 engine management as well, which is the preferred method, IMO.


Well, there would be some savings, as you'd have the proper crank, rods, camshaft, heads, etc. I don't think there would be any advantage to boring your block and then hoping the used C36 pistons would match properly; and then having to transfer all the stuff from a perfectly good C36 motor to your hybrid project. Why not take the complete C36 longblock (valve cover to oil pan) and try to retrofit your CIS injection, if you don't want to do the computerized thing? You really don't want to pull apart a Mercedes bottom end (crank, pistons, etc) unless something is worn out or broken.

Saijin_Naib

Thanks for the heads up. I believe I've Private Messaged the correct user asking for some general pointers and SNAFUs, so hopefully I can make some progress on this in due time.
You're probably right of course. For some reason I have this idea that it would be easier to hybridize the two engines, but I'm probably quite mistaken. I'll keep an eye out on what I can find. Realistically, this won't happen for quite some time unfortunately However, I'm all about the pursuit of knowledge and whether I move on this now or 5 years from now, at least I have done my research.

Saijin_Naib

Hey, is anyone interested in these?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mercedes-W124-W1...item1e5e3062a5

I've been having some contact with the seller over the past few months, and I think we're finally making some progress on getting US-Spec MPH gauges made. I'm taking some pictures and am asking if anyone else would be willing to supply shots of the cluster along with Model/Year info.

Thanks,
Brett

Saijin_Naib

I did the unthinkable today. I drove a Prius :P

It is an interesting vehicle, especially the difference in the engine and how the braking feels. The shifter is a huge usability fail, and there is no physical key backup if the fob/keyless start doesn't feel like working. Nice.

Saijin_Naib

Thinking of fighting my compression issues with a 3-Stage engine decarbonizer. I've been told the dealership can perform this service.

Thoughts/suggestions? I've got my valve seal kit on stand-by from last year, so I've got most of what I believe would be necessary to restore power.

Saijin_Naib

Made another odometer milestone today, this one was pretty significant

I missed 123456 though, and I'll never forgive myself for that.

tmaguire

Interested in the plasma in mph..... 1994 E320 Coupe... 160mph, 7K RPM, no economizer, image attached

Saijin_Naib

Thanks! Forwarded this post on to MoMan and reposted your shot on my Photobucket (images upped to MBworld can't be viewed by non-members).