300E Performance
04-13-2010, 03:35 PM
#52
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88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
Wasn't that the main point of this and the other thread started by the fifteen year old ???
If you're stuck with what you have for whatever reason, then you must understand that "it is what it is" and won't go noticeably faster without an infusion of major bucks...
Then the decision must be made as to what else can I do with the money to start with a much better platform !
"Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go.."
Learn that old gear head axiom and you won't throw money away "on the cheap"...
Not addressed to you, but to anyone who thinks they can make anything go fast on a shoestring..
It defies all laws of physics and economics...
Ed A.
04-13-2010, 03:46 PM
#54
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Brett
Wasn't that the main point of this and the other thread started by the fifteen year old ???
If you're stuck with what you have for whatever reason, then you must understand that "it is what it is" and won't go noticeably faster without an infusion of major bucks...
Then the decision must be made as to what else can I do with the money to start with a much better platform !
"Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go.."
Learn that old gear head axiom and you won't throw money away "on the cheap"...
Not addressed to you, but to anyone who thinks they can make anything go fast on a shoestring..
It defies all laws of physics and economics...
Ed A.
Wasn't that the main point of this and the other thread started by the fifteen year old ???
If you're stuck with what you have for whatever reason, then you must understand that "it is what it is" and won't go noticeably faster without an infusion of major bucks...
Then the decision must be made as to what else can I do with the money to start with a much better platform !
"Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go.."
Learn that old gear head axiom and you won't throw money away "on the cheap"...
Not addressed to you, but to anyone who thinks they can make anything go fast on a shoestring..
It defies all laws of physics and economics...
Ed A.
Ideally, I'd love to start with a C36 or a w208 CLK55 Coupe but they remain outside of my price range and I really have no reason to ever get rid of this car. It is proven itself to be reliable, comfortable, and it performs well beyond my and other's expectations. I've posted SCCA AutoX times 6s shy of a M5 and I placed 9/53 in a 350+ mile off-road TDS rally in a Pine/Sand forest in South NJ using my car. The closest WRX was 13th and I was the first non-SUV vehicle.
It is a fantastic car and I see much potential in it. Plus, the F-U factor of a purple, old benz is just too good for words. I love making pretentious asshats eat their words/times when I roll up to an event
Speaking of, I've begun looking over my intake and I need to get my hands on some measurements of C36 and 300sl intake/exhaust systems. I'm also looking at a Vortech V5 F HD supercharger for an eventual install. I spoke with the rep today and he seemed confident that this SC would be more than sufficient to meet my 300/300 Crank HP/TQ desires without much fuss. I ideally would like an Eaton TSV 2300 but the work required to get that installed and running is much greater :\
Oddly, the rep told me to contact Mosselman for a Turbo kit
I had to tell him that those are nigh on impossible to find and pricey at that. However, a good info gathering session.
04-13-2010, 04:22 PM
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88-300CE TWIN TURBO, 99-C43, 05-G55K, 71-280SL, 94-E320 CAB, 08 CLK63 BLACK SERIES
The new "Mosselman" has nothing to do with the originator ***** Mosselman.
They no longer produce or support any of the "legacy" kits.
Just stuff for late model applications.
The C124 is a fantastic platform, but it takes a major investment to first make power and second control the power.
If I didn't have anything better to do and wasn't as hung up as I am on building a "tribute" car, I would have not even gone the TT route.
But when period pieces are available at a bargain, I can't resist.
It's all relative.
Learn on and enjoy your C124...
If you want bang for your buck then a CLK55 will do it..
Just ask "Chappy"..
He don't need no stinking "juice"...
Ed A.
04-15-2010, 05:28 PM
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e400
So..
If i am willing to spend $2000-$3000 what are the very best performance parts i can get?
How much money would a good exhaust kit cost? And how much HP will it add?
And i thought an ECU tune can give like 10-15 hp? Or will it not even give that much?
Then i will go get my car checked for any leaks, and run some fuel injector cleaner through it.
Any other ideas or suggestions?
Thanks
If i am willing to spend $2000-$3000 what are the very best performance parts i can get?
How much money would a good exhaust kit cost? And how much HP will it add?
And i thought an ECU tune can give like 10-15 hp? Or will it not even give that much?
Then i will go get my car checked for any leaks, and run some fuel injector cleaner through it.
Any other ideas or suggestions?
Thanks
04-15-2010, 05:37 PM
#58
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So..
If i am willing to spend $2000-$3000 what are the very best performance parts i can get?
How much money would a good exhaust kit cost? And how much HP will it add?
And i thought an ECU tune can give like 10-15 hp? Or will it not even give that much.
Then i will go get my car checked for any leaks, and run some fuel injector cleaner through it.
Any other ideas or suggestions?
Thanks
If i am willing to spend $2000-$3000 what are the very best performance parts i can get?
How much money would a good exhaust kit cost? And how much HP will it add?
And i thought an ECU tune can give like 10-15 hp? Or will it not even give that much.
Then i will go get my car checked for any leaks, and run some fuel injector cleaner through it.
Any other ideas or suggestions?
Thanks
Exhaust may net you some few HP (I heard around 40hp gain was possible if all cats/precats were removed), however how much is uncertain.
ECU tuners claim much but I've yet to see any dyno results of a chipped m104/m103.
04-15-2010, 08:22 PM
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e400
Is a centrifugal Supercharger different than just a Supercharger?
Or will it just not give as big of gains as twin turbos? Because i know a new mosselman is like $7500, and about $4000 used. All i really know about superchargers is that they are mechanically driven not turbine. And i know the torque doesnt usually come in until higher engine speeds...I think
Would this supercharger get my 0-60 into the low 7s if not better for sure??
But if i could really get a Superchager for under $3000 and spend no more than $3500 in total to purchase it and have it installed, then i would love to get one.
And yeah i was worried about spending around $800+ for an exhaust kit and then have it only give like 5-10 hp.
Dont the mosselman twin turbos boost the car up to about 300 hp 320 torque or so..So how would this supercharger compare to that?
40 hp 50 torque? Maybe not even that much?
And i would have thought there would be a chip for the 300E but everyone on this thread seems to say they don't work.
I know it wouldnt work for the claimed 40-50 hp, but even if i spent $300 on a chip and got 10 hp, id be happy with that.
I do think that a 300E is a pretty good performance car, but 0-60, it cant even keep up with some of the modern day 4 cylinder cars.
80-90 mph it would definately start fighting back though.
Which is why i want acceleration in the low 7s..i want to be able to keep up with people and then blow them away after about 70 or 80 mph.
Or will it just not give as big of gains as twin turbos? Because i know a new mosselman is like $7500, and about $4000 used. All i really know about superchargers is that they are mechanically driven not turbine. And i know the torque doesnt usually come in until higher engine speeds...I think
Would this supercharger get my 0-60 into the low 7s if not better for sure??
But if i could really get a Superchager for under $3000 and spend no more than $3500 in total to purchase it and have it installed, then i would love to get one.
And yeah i was worried about spending around $800+ for an exhaust kit and then have it only give like 5-10 hp.
Dont the mosselman twin turbos boost the car up to about 300 hp 320 torque or so..So how would this supercharger compare to that?
40 hp 50 torque? Maybe not even that much?
And i would have thought there would be a chip for the 300E but everyone on this thread seems to say they don't work.
I know it wouldnt work for the claimed 40-50 hp, but even if i spent $300 on a chip and got 10 hp, id be happy with that.
I do think that a 300E is a pretty good performance car, but 0-60, it cant even keep up with some of the modern day 4 cylinder cars.
80-90 mph it would definately start fighting back though.
Which is why i want acceleration in the low 7s..i want to be able to keep up with people and then blow them away after about 70 or 80 mph.
Last edited by zach1328; 04-15-2010 at 08:31 PM.
04-15-2010, 08:34 PM
#60
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Is a centrifugal Supercharger different than just a Supercharger?
Or will it just not give as big of gains as twin turbos? Because i know a new mosselman is like $7500, and about $4000 used.
Would this turbo get my 0-60 into the low 7s if not better for sure??
But if i could really get a Superchager for under $3000 and spend no more than $3500 in total to purchase it and have it installed, then i would love to get one.
And yeah i was worried about spending around $800+ for an exhaust kit and then have it only give like 5-10 hp.
Dont the mosselman twin turbos boost the car up to about 300 hp 320 torque or so..So how would this supercharger compare to that?
40 hp 50 torque? Maybe not even that much?
And i would have thought there would be a chip for the 300E but everyone on this thread seems to say they don't work.
I know it wouldnt work for the claimed 40-50 hp, but even if i spent $300 on a chip and got 10 hp, id be happy with that.
I do think that a 300E is a pretty good performance car, but 0-60, it cant even keep up with some of the modern day 4 cylinder cars.
80-90 mph it would definately start fighting back though.
Which is why i want acceleration in the low 7s..i want to be able to keep up with people and then blow them away after about 70 or 80 mph.
Or will it just not give as big of gains as twin turbos? Because i know a new mosselman is like $7500, and about $4000 used.
Would this turbo get my 0-60 into the low 7s if not better for sure??
But if i could really get a Superchager for under $3000 and spend no more than $3500 in total to purchase it and have it installed, then i would love to get one.
And yeah i was worried about spending around $800+ for an exhaust kit and then have it only give like 5-10 hp.
Dont the mosselman twin turbos boost the car up to about 300 hp 320 torque or so..So how would this supercharger compare to that?
40 hp 50 torque? Maybe not even that much?
And i would have thought there would be a chip for the 300E but everyone on this thread seems to say they don't work.
I know it wouldnt work for the claimed 40-50 hp, but even if i spent $300 on a chip and got 10 hp, id be happy with that.
I do think that a 300E is a pretty good performance car, but 0-60, it cant even keep up with some of the modern day 4 cylinder cars.
80-90 mph it would definately start fighting back though.
Which is why i want acceleration in the low 7s..i want to be able to keep up with people and then blow them away after about 70 or 80 mph.
For acceleration, look into getting the trans/rear diff from the r129 300sl
Last edited by Saijin_Naib; 04-15-2010 at 08:38 PM.
04-15-2010, 09:29 PM
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e400
Ok..How much is this new high flow cat that can add 15 hp?
And is the R129 300sl the one with the 3.69?? Do you know the cost of getting it changed to that of a R129 300sl?
And also i have been looking for the 0-60 time and top speed of a 300E 2.8 with the custom rear differential, but i have not found any numbers yet.
Cuz doesnt the new differential slowyour top speed down a bit?
And is the R129 300sl the one with the 3.69?? Do you know the cost of getting it changed to that of a R129 300sl?
And also i have been looking for the 0-60 time and top speed of a 300E 2.8 with the custom rear differential, but i have not found any numbers yet.
Cuz doesnt the new differential slowyour top speed down a bit?
04-15-2010, 09:34 PM
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e400
Na probably not much above 120..i just wanted to make sure its not slowed down to like 120. As long as its 125 or 130 im fine with it.
By the way, ive been meaning to ask where you live in New Jersey?
And do you have an accurate or estimated time if i got the R129 300sl rear diff.
Thankssssss
By the way, ive been meaning to ask where you live in New Jersey?
And do you have an accurate or estimated time if i got the R129 300sl rear diff.
Thankssssss
04-15-2010, 09:41 PM
#65
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North Central NJ, about 20min from Newark. I go to school in Rochester, NY though.
No, I've got no concrete numbers.
They way I am visualizing it is this:
Rear Diff m104 300ce
3.27
Rear Diff m104 300sl
3.69
% Increase in gearing: 11.4%
Now, what this means for acceleration times? I have no idea. I am guessing that it is not a linear or 1to1 response, but if it were 0-60 would go from about 8.4s to 7.4s.
That is my guess. No idea if it works that way. Plus, the gearing on the 300sl trans is different.
No, I've got no concrete numbers.
They way I am visualizing it is this:
Rear Diff m104 300ce
3.27
Rear Diff m104 300sl
3.69
% Increase in gearing: 11.4%
Now, what this means for acceleration times? I have no idea. I am guessing that it is not a linear or 1to1 response, but if it were 0-60 would go from about 8.4s to 7.4s.
That is my guess. No idea if it works that way. Plus, the gearing on the 300sl trans is different.
04-15-2010, 10:39 PM
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e400
ok thanks. I dont think the tranny would affect it at all..maybe i am wrong tho idk
I usually go to Stone Harbor New jersey every summer if you know where that is..
If not..Its near Altantic City..ocean city..Avalon..Cape may
Kind of in that area
I usually go to Stone Harbor New jersey every summer if you know where that is..
If not..Its near Altantic City..ocean city..Avalon..Cape may
Kind of in that area
04-15-2010, 11:09 PM
#67
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Of course the trans will affect it. The trans in the r129 300sl is geared differently than the trans in the m104 300e.
Read this:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...l_info_Stu.txt
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...ferentials.pdf
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...nny_ratios.pdf
Read this:
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...l_info_Stu.txt
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...ferentials.pdf
http://www.w124performance.com/docs/...nny_ratios.pdf
Last edited by Saijin_Naib; 04-15-2010 at 11:17 PM.
04-16-2010, 06:42 PM
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e400
Oh wow i never really realized the transmission had certain gearing. I know that there are different gear ratios for cars, but i didnt know it was in the transmission. I thought the gearing was completely seperate from the tranny.
I thought the actual gears were just in the engine, and the tranny just changes them. As in, if i got a new 4 speed tranny, i dont have to get the gear ratios changed. And i can get them changed and keep the same tranny. Its not like if you get a new tranny, then u get new gear ratios. Or vice versa.
Idk im confused know lol. Ill probably just get the 3.69 rear differential, and just be happy with what it does
But yeah ive been looking into getting my gears changed to be faster also.
So if i got a new 4 speed tranny with different gear ratios, would that increase my acceleration?
I just wont worry about it..what happens is what happens. I think the new rear differential would drop the accel to like 7.5 or 7.6. Then ill find a way to get it to around 7.2 or so from there.
I thought the actual gears were just in the engine, and the tranny just changes them. As in, if i got a new 4 speed tranny, i dont have to get the gear ratios changed. And i can get them changed and keep the same tranny. Its not like if you get a new tranny, then u get new gear ratios. Or vice versa.
Idk im confused know lol. Ill probably just get the 3.69 rear differential, and just be happy with what it does
But yeah ive been looking into getting my gears changed to be faster also.
So if i got a new 4 speed tranny with different gear ratios, would that increase my acceleration?
I just wont worry about it..what happens is what happens. I think the new rear differential would drop the accel to like 7.5 or 7.6. Then ill find a way to get it to around 7.2 or so from there.
04-17-2010, 08:04 PM
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e400
Any ideas on a good exhaust system that i could buy? I don't want it to sound too deep, i want the same sound just kind of louder. I really like the way it sounds now, and i dont want to make it sound too different, just louder.
So what exhaust would do that?
And ps2cho said new high flow cats can add 15 hp.
And saijin you said you have heard of up to 40 hp gains from taking all that stuff off. By that do you mean just running the car straight off the headers?
And does anyone have any dyno results for a chipped ECU tuner. Saijin you said that they claim huge gains. So i was just wondering if anyone knew how much? Usually they claim like 30-40 hp but i wouldnt expect that much, but i figured it would work for maybe 10.
Maybe not?
Idk
Thanks everyone who has given me ideas, answers, and comments
So what exhaust would do that?
And ps2cho said new high flow cats can add 15 hp.
And saijin you said you have heard of up to 40 hp gains from taking all that stuff off. By that do you mean just running the car straight off the headers?
And does anyone have any dyno results for a chipped ECU tuner. Saijin you said that they claim huge gains. So i was just wondering if anyone knew how much? Usually they claim like 30-40 hp but i wouldnt expect that much, but i figured it would work for maybe 10.
Maybe not?
Idk
Thanks everyone who has given me ideas, answers, and comments
04-18-2010, 10:41 PM
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e400
Alright thanks. Do you know what really will make the reponse time faster? Like anything you have ever used, or anyone else on this thread?
If it were only $100 then i would go for it, but $300+ is a lot to throw away on something that may not even work.
And i just added some Prestone Fuel System Cleaner, so i'm hoping my car will be running noticeably faster and better once i have run that through my tank.
Also, I was in my friends Civic Si the other day, and we stopped at exxon quickly and picked up some STP Octane Booster just to try it out. Once he put it in and it was mixed around well, his car was accelerating much faster than usual. Usually a stock Si runs about 7.1s 0-60. I would say we were doing 0-60 in 6.9. Maybe even 6.8.
How bad is this for the car if you did it every now and again?
If it were only $100 then i would go for it, but $300+ is a lot to throw away on something that may not even work.
And i just added some Prestone Fuel System Cleaner, so i'm hoping my car will be running noticeably faster and better once i have run that through my tank.
Also, I was in my friends Civic Si the other day, and we stopped at exxon quickly and picked up some STP Octane Booster just to try it out. Once he put it in and it was mixed around well, his car was accelerating much faster than usual. Usually a stock Si runs about 7.1s 0-60. I would say we were doing 0-60 in 6.9. Maybe even 6.8.
How bad is this for the car if you did it every now and again?
Last edited by zach1328; 04-18-2010 at 10:44 PM.
04-18-2010, 11:34 PM
#72
Zach. As said earlier I believe, I would bet 90% of ALL 103 + 104 engines on the road are not properly tuned. Start by figuring out your true 0-60 and compare it to the stock.
Have you even done a compression and leakdown test on the engine yet? It is pointless looking at all these modifications if your engine isn't even solid.
Have you even done a compression and leakdown test on the engine yet? It is pointless looking at all these modifications if your engine isn't even solid.
04-19-2010, 06:03 PM
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e400
Well i know for sure that at 101k miles we had a bunch of things done to it. I cant tell you exactly what because this was about 1 year ago before i was too interested in the car.
What i can tell you is that the car has been very well maintained over the years. We have always had it serviced when it was supposed to be, and it lives in the garrage except for when i take it out to drive around. I live in Texas and we don't get any snow here, so they never lay salt down on the road.
I don't know if that means anything. Maybe it still has problems, but i can tell you for sure it doesn't do 0-60 in 8.4 seconds. Right now it just has horrible response time, so i don't know what is causing that problem. Or maybe none of the 300Es have good response times?
Any idea what could be causing slow response times, and very slow 0-20 times? I know that the car doesnt have a lot of low end torque, but it seems extrordinarely slow!
But I am already planning on taking it in to get it checked for any leaks, since you recommended that a while ago on this thread.
Another thing which i want to get fixed is the "squeeky" sound coming from my engine. I think i mentioned this on the other thread and someone said it could be expensive to fix. Does anyone have any idea what this sound is?!?!? But hopefully my parents will pay for all of the stuff other than aftermarket.
What i can tell you is that the car has been very well maintained over the years. We have always had it serviced when it was supposed to be, and it lives in the garrage except for when i take it out to drive around. I live in Texas and we don't get any snow here, so they never lay salt down on the road.
I don't know if that means anything. Maybe it still has problems, but i can tell you for sure it doesn't do 0-60 in 8.4 seconds. Right now it just has horrible response time, so i don't know what is causing that problem. Or maybe none of the 300Es have good response times?
Any idea what could be causing slow response times, and very slow 0-20 times? I know that the car doesnt have a lot of low end torque, but it seems extrordinarely slow!
But I am already planning on taking it in to get it checked for any leaks, since you recommended that a while ago on this thread.
Another thing which i want to get fixed is the "squeeky" sound coming from my engine. I think i mentioned this on the other thread and someone said it could be expensive to fix. Does anyone have any idea what this sound is?!?!? But hopefully my parents will pay for all of the stuff other than aftermarket.
04-19-2010, 07:07 PM
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93 300E 2.8
A squeaky engine noise may be due to a bad tensioner, in which case must be replaced, and in doing so may require a new drive belt if you are doing the tensioner anyways, especially if you still have the original drive belt
Tensioner = could be $100ish for OEM I think....I am sure a simple online search could find a result, or a quick call to dealer
Drive belt = $80ish to $100 from dealer
Tensioner = could be $100ish for OEM I think....I am sure a simple online search could find a result, or a quick call to dealer
Drive belt = $80ish to $100 from dealer
Last edited by W124_2.8; 04-19-2010 at 07:13 PM.
04-19-2010, 08:27 PM
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e400
Ok thank you very much! I see you have the exact same car as me 1993 300E 2.8L. Do you have any upgrades on your car? Any recomendations on good performance upgrades?
