Lowflyingbird

Hi,
I'm new here, and to Mercedes. I was dumbfounded to the realization that Mercedes rarely uses a limited slip.
I have a W210 E300TD, and ofcourse it has an open differential. Now I'm a mechanic and every vehicle I have ever owned has been rear wheel drive and WITH a posi!!! If not when I bought it, then it got one soon after.
I could not believe that Mercedes did not use one in this vehicle. They however did use one in other vehicles. I hope that someone here can help me. I want to know if any other vehicles diff. can be adapted in some way to install into this E body. I have found rear diff's on Ebay, and I'm willing to buy even two or tree to put together to install. The performance Mercedes companies want way to much for one.
I know (or think) that there were two size diff's in E bodys. As long as I can use my shafts, I feel that I can adapt anything. I do a bit of custom fabrication. I have not looked under my vehicle yet, but I'm led to believe that my rear ratio is either 3.07 or 3.47 or close to those numbers from memory.

PS. I know about the electronic ASR system, which is BS. It actually brakes or cuts power to the driveline. I do not want to kill power to my rear wheels, I just want better traction under hard throttle. I already drive most of the time with that switch off.


Please reply with ANY info that you might have to help me.
Thank you
Lowflyingbird

suicidal4life

I could be wrong but I think you are stuck going aftermarket. If a Quaife LSD is out of your budget you may want to look at Phantom Grip. I know there was a thread on the W211 AMG page about them. IIRC Max Hughes has one in his turbo W210. Price is substantially less then Quaife but the product doesn't appear to be as high quality of a design of Quaife.

ohlord

already know about it.Then you also know that driving with it turned off does not really turn it off completely.It will still apply the brakes to the wheel that is spinning.
You are running a diesel with 174hp. and a 2.82 rear gear ratio
Have at it,but most mechanics I know would just laugh and ask why?
17 second 1/4 miles has me scratching my noggin ,that's for sure.
Kleeman unit in a AMG V8 drops .3 0-60
can a diesel even do 0-60?

I'm led to believe that if you keep driving that old diesel the way you are that You will be needing more than a new rear diff unit

Lowflyingbird

Yes this diesel had 174 hp from the factory, But it has alot of torque. The rear axle ratio is either 3:07 or 3:47 from what I'm told, but I have to go under the car and confirm that off the diff.
I did have the computer reprogrammed add it adds 40HP and 80TQ. Once I reinstalled it there was a big improvement. I'm now fighting a fuel problem, I'm getting air bubles in my lines. When it does not get air in, the power is quite impressive for what the motor is. I can spin the one tire from a stop with ease now about two car legnths, even with the problem. When the air gets in the system, performance is non existant. Keep in mind that diesel is all about pressurizing the fuel (hydrolic), if air gets in pressure is lost.

If I keep driving it the way I do now, what do you think I will harm? The transmission was just redone before I bought it, and these engines are known to be able to hit like half a million miles.

Lowflyingbird

Hirnbeiss

ASD differentials from the 4-matics might be the cheapest solution. I don't know if there's any required change in the electronics though.

Lancelot

Quote: "I know about the electronic ASR system, which is BS. It actually brakes or cuts power to the driveline. I do not want to kill power to my rear wheels, I just want better traction under hard throttle. I already drive most of the time with that switch off."

About ASR:
First of all I highly doubt you drive with that switch off most of the time cuz the big lighted yellow triangle in the speedometer is annoying as hell.

Second of all, ASR helped me and my family safely out of a blown tyre happening at 140km/h (close to 90Miles) a few weeks ago. We were actually telling eachother 'what a bad road condition overhere' when I noticed the ASR light was on. (!) Have fun with your hard traction in case this happens to you. Not everyone is a licensed rallydriver you know...

lkchris

Because you're used to 'merikun iron.

You do not need an LSD on your Mercedes, but if you want to fantasize that your diesel's a road racer, go ahead.

Not many folks here do, and since it's not needed it's not often done and you won't find much experience here.

TMAllison

Here is a diagram of the fuel path. http://bp3.blogger.com/_p71v9ofBM6w/...h/fuelflow.JPG

Check where bubbles first appear. The bad oring will precede that point. Typically is line #2 or 5, and the leak is the pre-filter or shutoff valve orings respectively.

Lowflyingbird

I really do appreciate the info, and will check into it.

As for the others with the comments,
Have even one of you ever drove a rear wheel drive car in the snow with a posi ? It grabs better and sometimes fun.
Or in the rain, any of you simply lose traction out of that one wheel, maybe going up a hill? Only to have the computer hold the car back even more when your trying to accelerate?

Are you a bunch of commuter drivers? or Lethargic????

I'm not saying what I'm asking for is for everyone, but for someone who is used to the feel of a limited slip rear to go back to a open rear,
IT BITES!!!

And, just so you know YES I do drive with the switch off with the light on while "in town" type driving. On the highway I have the ASR on.

Now, about that tire I saw shreaded. You should seriously find out if it wasnt caused by hitting something, or having old dry rot tires on your car. WHY that happened. Unless they were cheap, low tread, out of balance, or non rated tires that you were buzzing along at 90mph on.

To the "Mericun iron". My other vehicle has an all aluminum DOHC 4 cam 4.6L supercharged motor putting out nearly 500hp. I personally built, sorry no iron.

The rally driver coment I laugh at. I actually have had a couple car at the track, and build my own engines for those hot rods. So I am use to the more spirited side of driving. This Mercedes is my daily driver I bought for work where my other vehicles would cost me too much in fuel to drive around town all day.

Lowflyingbird

Lancelot

Ahh so you ARE the rally driver, lol! The rear tyres were Conti Sportcontacts in ok shape, we hit a rusty piece of metal that must've fallen off a truck or something. It was actually embedded into the plastic inner lining of the wheelwhell. I always was under the impression ASR only was a gimmick to drive-off skid-free under slippery conditions, but it also prevents the car from drifting to the sides with a busted tyre as we found out...

ohlord

you can be led to believe that some program increased your horsepower by 25% and your torque by 33% then I suppose you can be told you have a 3.07 or a 3.47 rear gear ratio and believe it.
You turn off the switch,it just turns off the torque reduction feature.The brakes still get applied if the wheels slip and over 50 mph it won't matter if you switch it off at highway speeds the system does it automatically.

You sound a lot like another recent noob that came around trying to school us on automotive science.He also barked up the wrong tree
"The rally driver coment I laugh at" I laugh at your'e out trying to chirp a few car lengths of rubber,and think we are all a bunch of lethargic commuters

the comment about I'm led to believe if you keep driving it the way you are you will need more than a new rear diff,was a cryptic hint towards the direction of a certain body shop




btw it's a 2.82... spin tire count shaft rotations,some time when you do get a chance to crawl underneath it.

Lowflyingbird

Ohlord,
I admire people who KNOW what they say, I detest people who say what they dont know.
First off my gearing is 3:07, I just checked it out getting the number off my diff carier. So your WRONG.
Second, If you actually dont believe that a reprograming of an ECU holds any benifit, then I actually dont know what to say to ignorance that grand. and, on diesels the performance benifit of reprograming is HUGE. I guess that you never had a ECU reprogrammed, for that and still spewing out garbage, your second, WRONG.

Now the ASR on this diesel does NOT apply brake, it cut power from the motor. From other posts I read the gas engines have the braking type ASR. as I said I drive with it off in town which would be at lower speeds than what the computer would over ride my turning it off would do. This makes a third WRONG.

You obviously have no idea of what you are talking about, and are not any sort of mechanic. People like you only post to make themselves feel like they are an authority on any given subject.

PS, I did not say "TRY" to chirp a few car legnths, I said that my car is able to "SPIN" the one wheel NOW about two car legnths. If your even a total dolt, you can still get it right from reading the other post when you respond. So, I now get to add this extra bonus WWRRRROOOONNNGG!!!

Geting back to my origional reason for posting...
I have found out that my car's diff is smaller than those I have seen for a E430. Mine looks very much like the earlier bodied 190's which did come with a LSD carrier. I even found one with my gearing ratio. I will take some measurements off of mine and have the seller of the other one see if they are a match. As long as physical dimensions are the same, and ratio. I see no reason why it would not go in. I did notice very slight casting differences around the rear cover though.

and, Lancelot,
Those are good tires you have, I'm a fan of Continentals myself. The only tires that I had on my trucks and got 80kmi out of them without even a flat. While also having exceptional traction. ContiTrac tr's were what I had, then another set in non TR after them.

I hope this post has been enjoyable for those who have read it,
and for Ohlord, I shall end this in the immortal words from Monty Pythons Holy Grail, " If you come back, I will have to thrash you with another taunting, you silly person. I blow my nose in your general direction".

Lowflyingbird

ohlord

have a w210 the abs asr traction control and abs were standard on all w210's.It applies the brakes whether you believe it or not.
I'm a big proponent of ECU programming when the modifications are done that are needed to require the changes.I.E. head work,boost,power adders,etc.
There is no way that you took a chip and plugged it into a 300td and started pulling 320 ft. lbs. of torque so don't even try to insult our intelligence with that drivel.
My wagon has the Euro spec 2.82 so I stand corrected if your model has a 3.07
Thrash? I reduce know nothing Kids like you to babbling laughing stock in a matter of days,so why subject yourself to the humiliation ?
when you start typing whole pages of cuss words because you can't convince us that your mystery motored diesel is capable of supercar feats of wonder,maybe then you will return back to class and act in a proper manner

'for someone who is used to the feel of a limited slip rear to go back to a open rear IT BITES!!!"
Anyone that makes a comment like this ,ought to be real careful when trying to be funny and dredging up old comedy lines.You are cannon fodder before you even try.

TMAllison

LFB - You've got the SpeedTuning Aggressive chip?

Lowflyingbird

I did purchase from Speedtuning, only after talking to him a while over the phone. It seems like he normally takes tuning a bit further than what I bought.
I also told him that I would be opening up the exhaust a bit to allow the turbo to spool up faster, and would be raising the boost as much as the fuel delivery would permit. Mention was made of the cat. converter. I know from the past that turbo's hate cats, not only the flow issue which has been debated but for the excess heat issue upon the turbo. I'm leaving the cat in untill the spring.
As of now I have the flashed ECU in, as well as a Magnaflow muffler and raised boost level via. manual controller. Although our cars turbo systems work off vac control, you can use a manual controller to raise turbo boost. It's just a little different. If anyone wants to know how just ask. The only other thing done was the addition of a K&N filter, dont laugh. It needed a new filter and the K&N was only $20. more than a paper element filter. it couldn't hurt.

Once agin, Ohlord,
RIF = Reading is fundamental. At no point did I cuss at you, ridiculed you YES!!!
Note that this is the second time that you failed to read a post before responding. Since you feel that I'm a kid, I can only imagine that you must be much older than I, are you senile? Dont worry, you probably will forget that I just insulted you in another minute or two, just as you can not clearly remember what I had in previous posts.
Your car is GAS so your ASR works off brake. These DIESELS ASR work off power reduction, (RIF) READ A MANUAL!!!
I also never made a Supercar claim on this car, So you must also be dillusional. However I did state above a boost increase and exhaust modification.
Sorry I can not respond well to the other babble in your last post because it is just that, babble and .

Now, just so you know I'm almost 40 and started learing automotive work at 17 from working in a parts/ machine shop run by an ex PanAm head tech. I'm now an Industrial designer and several friends are engineers all of us with degree's, who also are my hotroding buddies. Collectively we would make up the better portion of a dealerships shop crew, not to mention all the custom fabrication skills we have. Recent projects covering from a 2.3 Ford turbo and BBC ZZ502 in a boat, to a 6.2 Detriot diesel with a complete Banks turbo system. So when it comes to automotive knowledge here you are definitly the kid.

I can only hope that you ACTUALLY READ A BOOK, KINDLY LEARN SOMETHING BEFORE RESPONDING!!!
Sorry you don't find Monty Python to be funny, work on your sense of humor.

Lowflyingbird

ohlord

magnaflow,opened up the exhaust.WOW show us the numbers.320 ft.lbs. out of speed tunings 289buck chip. You may be 40 however you are gullible like 17 if you believe those numbers.
I'll sit back and watch you make a fool of yourself.I enjoy Monty Python,your'e not him.

The new tommyboy, but certainly not the new Python

lkchris

No word in the English language is made plural by adding apostrophe-s.

In the phrase "the paper my degree's printed on," the apostrophe is used to create the contraction "degree is."

In the phase "my degree's worth," the apostrophe is used to create a possessive, i.e. the worth possessed by my degree.

Those are the only uses of apostrope-s when attached to the word degree.

Your degree's clearly not equal to the worth of the degrees of those who designed your Mercedes.

Lowflyingbird

No one has ever done that typing before. SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!!!!!
I guess my design degree was mistaken for an english degree.
I'll go back immediately and correct this offensive miss use of the language.
right!
And not everything that Mercedes had done has been flawless you know. Lets see now, plastic fuel lines, those work real good. NO, but the earlier banjo metal lines were very good. and, The water base paint, great idea ?? I've already started on rust repair on this car, and a friends earlier 87 Mercedes has to be totally stripped and re shot the paint is so bad. Oh wait, lets not forget the great spring mount design on our W210's.

and now Ohlord, you don't believe that after market performance mufflers aid in flow improvement ? So I guess that everyone who upgrades a system is wrong and you must be correct.

and, Monty Python a him?? Monty Python is a collective name for the group of actors, not an actual persons name you are a COMPLETE MORON!!!

BoS7463

wow this post turned into an online wrestling match of text
seriously why argue over anything to do with someone's will;
no matter what is said apparently everybody is going to continue to do what they've done and believe what they believe; no matter how much you try to prove one another wrong you'll never believe one another anyway so whats the use?

what_boost

ohlord:

sounds like you barked up the wrong tree! Whammy

ohlord

Your mere lack of reply to the last thread justified your total lack of anything to do with suspension science.Why expose yourself to more airing of your shortcomings?
Barked up the wrong tree?
$289 for a 33% increase in Torque,He believes it,so you must believe it.After all you believed an under the hood tube with a foam filter sucking in super heated air would increase horsepower.You might as well believe he is a design engineer that needs a posi rear end in his 300d because he was dumbfounded
I thought you were the new tommy,you lost the crown and it only took a few weeks you should be ashamed
Most ascendants to the throne try to hang onto it for as long as he did, at least until he crashed like a ****

EdzBenz

LowFlyingBird,
Welcome as another owner of a diesel W210. You can see that many of the people on here are very spirited members of the forum.
I have been thinking on a speedtunining chip for my diesel, but haven't ever seen a dyno test from a E300 that can prove the gains. I'm also a little worried about having temperature issues after increasing hp gains on the engine. If you can, try and post some dyno results.
You can easily hollow out your trap/cat on the exhaust system. The element in mine started to break loose which caused a nasty rattle. I broke up the element inside of it with a long screwdriver making it hollow. Its not as good as a straight pipe (which is on my list of to do's) but I did notice a slight difference in turbo lag.

Lowflyingbird

I know that Ohlord is going to ream me for this ( not being able to dyno)but, I live in NYC and there is nowhere to get a Dyno done for a reasonable rate. Here on Long Island there are a few Mustang shops that will , but unless you spend some good $$$ in their shops they blow you off. Maybe with the economy falling off their business will follow suit and they will think twice.
I recomend that you give him a call, and talk to him. He seems to be quite a knowledgeable guy. After I spoke with him, I felt much better about mailing away my crazily expensive ECU. I boxed it like an Omaha frozen steak. Two inches of foam and then plastic wrapped, surounded by foam peanuts. That box could have been dropped off a ten story building and there would not have been an issue. No matter what, the performance gain was well worth the $225. I've never seen this much of a gain for that amount of money on anything. Note that he includes free return shipping, but I spent the extra couple $ and had him send it covered for an additional $500. in my box provided.
Although I cannot give you a data slip, I will tell you that my car now really takes off from a stop strongly. It seems best when you do not stomp on the accelerator, rather ease into it firmly. I would not be at all concerned about temp increase, I've run my car hard at times and the temp never raises above 80 (mid way) on the gauge.
In the past I have hollowed out cats , not with the best result. The hollow cat always acted like an echo chamber. I dont think that the rebounding flow within it helped matters either. I'll wait until I have more time and pipe the area. As of now the cats shell looks good with no sign of heat discoloration. I can only believe it's OK, but know that without it it is better.
I never got to see on my gauge, If you have a gauge, what is your stock boost ? I heard it's 9psi. I origionally thought it was 12psi. I'm now at between 15 and 20 but have not as of yet resolved my fuel delivery issues. I do not recomend raising boost much on a factory tune, but if you choose to do a tune, then follow it with a boost increase.


I see now that my thought were correct about Ohlord, He just posts on everything = (no life). One person here disagrees with him and he is off the hook, as can be seen by the last members post he had to lash out at. I do feel the need to agree with him about the open element filters though. It's better to keep a stock air box, which actually is a cold air intake and add a better filter element like I did, than to do one of those flashy pipes and filters open under hood. However The filter like I did most likely gives NO better performance than stock.

BUT, AGAIN Ohlord cant read and calls me a DESIGN ENGINEER, to which I am NOT. I'm an industrial designer aka. product designer. An engineer is a white collar profession and holds a barred licence.
And, I was not dumbfounded because I need a posi diff.
I was dumbfounded to find out the Mercedes, a high end auto manufacturer stopped using a limited slip diff in a vehicle, which they used to use(previous body). Obvieously it was to cut corners, just like those plastic fuel lines.

I simply have to ask, HOW DO YOU GET THRU EVERY DAY BEING SO NARROW MINDED, INGNORANT, AND FOR THE LACK OF A BETTER WORD...STUPID!!!

Ohlord Please sit back and let this little bunny from Caerbannog have at you, it would end all that missery obviously in your misserable life.

Lowflyingbird

Hirnbeiss

Habt Ihr beide 'ne Meise oder wat?

illmeth0d

LFB you should have someone rebuild the turbo to better specs, and maybe get the chip retuned. I think the performance gains would be great.

I always wondered about turning up the boost on the diesel, I'm glad someone actually tried it.

I too would love to see the dyno results , there is actually alot of dynos out here in NY (Queens has a few at a reasonable price). Also if you get it dynod maybe you can get the A/F results to speedtuning and really get the appropriate parameters dialed in. It may cost you some $$ but I think its a lot safer for your engine.