Torque Converter Question
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Joined: May 2009
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From: Staunton,VA USA
2001 E-430
Torque Converter Question
I have a 2000 E-430 with 160,000 miles. I bought it in November of last year. It had been serviced recently before I purchased it....dealer showed me a healthy stack of receipts for routine maintenance. After driving for six months,I decided it was time for an oil change.So I took it to an Indie that I trust. However after picking the car up I discovered that he put too much oil in ....10 quarts of Mobil 1 0w-40. only drove a few miles back to his shop next morning and had him drain out the 1 1/2 quarts too much. (don't know if I trust him anymore)
Up until this point the car run and drove like a dream. It now makes a noise that sounds like it is in the rear of the passenger side....the noise occurs around 40mph when you ease off of the pedal to even out speed. The noise is also accompanied by a slight jerk as though the car is in between gears. When you mash down on the gas at this point it smooths out and is fine while accelerating.
I then took the car to another trusted source who thinks the problem is in the torque converter. Is it possible that the first mechanic started draining what he thought was the oil and was tranny fluid....discovered his error and didn't replace what had been drained or used regular tranny fluid instead of that from MB ? I just don't understand why this problem appeared right after the oil change.
Any thoughts on what I should do ?
Up until this point the car run and drove like a dream. It now makes a noise that sounds like it is in the rear of the passenger side....the noise occurs around 40mph when you ease off of the pedal to even out speed. The noise is also accompanied by a slight jerk as though the car is in between gears. When you mash down on the gas at this point it smooths out and is fine while accelerating.
I then took the car to another trusted source who thinks the problem is in the torque converter. Is it possible that the first mechanic started draining what he thought was the oil and was tranny fluid....discovered his error and didn't replace what had been drained or used regular tranny fluid instead of that from MB ? I just don't understand why this problem appeared right after the oil change.
Any thoughts on what I should do ?
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: May 2009
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From: Staunton,VA USA
2001 E-430
Thanks for responding. The dealer wouldn't let me keep the records because of privacy laws concerning the original owner.(wish he would have just cut the names off of them)..but the transmission had been serviced several times .
I'm sure that changing the fluid & filter wouldn't hurt, but do you drain the converter seperately ? Does the converter use a different fluid than the tranny itself ?
I'm sure that changing the fluid & filter wouldn't hurt, but do you drain the converter seperately ? Does the converter use a different fluid than the tranny itself ?
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
You're welcome. You can't drain the converter because there is no drain plug. Those disappeared sometime in 1999. The only way to change the fluid (which is the same as what is in the rest of the transmission) is to flush the whole system with a machine designed for that purpose. The downside there is you can't flush with the pan removed.
People seem to be split about 50/50 on whether that is a good idea. So, without a flush, the most you can remove is about 4 quarts by dropping the pan and that's where the filter is. BTW, the system holds about 8.5 quarts. That's all I have had done and it smoothed out the shifting somewhat.
If that was my car, I'd start by changing the filter and replacing as much fluid as you can. As you said, it can't hurt anything.
People seem to be split about 50/50 on whether that is a good idea. So, without a flush, the most you can remove is about 4 quarts by dropping the pan and that's where the filter is. BTW, the system holds about 8.5 quarts. That's all I have had done and it smoothed out the shifting somewhat.
If that was my car, I'd start by changing the filter and replacing as much fluid as you can. As you said, it can't hurt anything.
Last edited by Musikmann; May 9, 2009 at 08:44 PM.
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From: Bostonian Ma
2012 CLS63 AMG
+1 160,000 miles I would hope that the tranny oil was changed as MB requires tranny oil change every 80k miles ever since they turned back on the lifetime tranny oil
(I'd say every 60k mi) play it safe
-Armani
(I'd say every 60k mi) play it safe-Armani
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
ArmaniE55,
Every 60,000 miles is sort of the schedule I'm on. I had the 1st done at 58,000 and sent the oil for analysis. The guy told me that I should do a partial change again at 90,000 so you and I are saying the same thing. Change all of it every 60,000 or roughly half of it every 30,000.
Every 60,000 miles is sort of the schedule I'm on. I had the 1st done at 58,000 and sent the oil for analysis. The guy told me that I should do a partial change again at 90,000 so you and I are saying the same thing. Change all of it every 60,000 or roughly half of it every 30,000.
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From: Bay Area, CA
09' E320
In 05 the service interval changed from lifetime to once at 39k miles. Sometime in early 09 it changed to every 39K miles to the best of my knowledge. This applies to 722.6 & 9 trans.
I don't see how a mech could have mistakenly drained the trans when attempting to drain engien oil.
I don't see how a mech could have mistakenly drained the trans when attempting to drain engien oil.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Bostonian Ma
2012 CLS63 AMG
In 05 the service interval changed from lifetime to once at 39k miles. Sometime in early 09 it changed to every 39K miles to the best of my knowledge. This applies to 722.6 & 9 trans.
I don't see how a mech could have mistakenly drained the trans when attempting to drain engien oil.
I don't see how a mech could have mistakenly drained the trans when attempting to drain engien oil.
I'd say 60k should be a.ok
Cheers-
Armani
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: Bostonian Ma
2012 CLS63 AMG
ArmaniE55,
Every 60,000 miles is sort of the schedule I'm on. I had the 1st done at 58,000 and sent the oil for analysis. The guy told me that I should do a partial change again at 90,000 so you and I are saying the same thing. Change all of it every 60,000 or roughly half of it every 30,000.
Every 60,000 miles is sort of the schedule I'm on. I had the 1st done at 58,000 and sent the oil for analysis. The guy told me that I should do a partial change again at 90,000 so you and I are saying the same thing. Change all of it every 60,000 or roughly half of it every 30,000.
Happen to be a friend of a friend when I would take my Ex S500 in for service.I like the E55 gives me that DIY fuzzy feeling......
-Armani
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
In 05 the service interval changed from lifetime to once at 39k miles. Sometime in early 09 it changed to every 39K miles to the best of my knowledge. This applies to 722.6 & 9 trans. I don't see how a mech could have mistakenly drained the trans when attempting to drain engien oil.
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Joined: May 2009
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From: Staunton,VA USA
2001 E-430
I'm not certain the mechanic did drain any fluid...but I'm sure that I did not have an issue prior to taking it to him.
I am definitely going to change fluid/filter and see what happens. Is the complete system flush a good idea ? I've heard that the flush could send any floating metal particles into critical fluid passages, thereby possibly clogging them.
I guess if that's the only way to change the converter fluid I'd almost have to use the flush method in order to eliminate potential problems.
Do you think that this will improve the performance of the converter ?
Thanks for all of the info.
I am definitely going to change fluid/filter and see what happens. Is the complete system flush a good idea ? I've heard that the flush could send any floating metal particles into critical fluid passages, thereby possibly clogging them.
I guess if that's the only way to change the converter fluid I'd almost have to use the flush method in order to eliminate potential problems.
Do you think that this will improve the performance of the converter ?
Thanks for all of the info.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,627
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From: West Virginia
2001 E320 RWD - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 100,000+
On the other hand, my favorite MB tech at the dealer recommends it. I don't understand why we can't remove the pan, drain that ATF and then flush the rest of the fluid out replacing the filter along the way somewhere. If that is possible, I'd consider doing it.
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300E a couple 1994 w124wagon E320 Wagon/,1971MGB Track/Rally, MG Midget Autocross ,2000 E320 wagon.
Everyone
needs help on this one.The 722.6 after 99 had no drain plug for the tc but you can drain it and do so without the flush machine.Use 722.6 mb fluid,I have the dipsticks for sale and diy is on benzworld.org w210 section.
TSB from mb indicates 39K for the w211 models,same trans so good for them is good for you
Why would a trusted mechanic be draining oil from the engine?If he was trusted he would have been sucking the oil out.
Do it yourself next time.Takes 10 minutes to do a proper oil and filter change.
Do not flush machine a 722.6 trans.Drain pan replace filter fill with like amount and pump out till cleared via the trans cooling line.Easy diy.
BTW`if this is true
"but the transmission had been serviced several times"
You may have located the problem
And in my experience,if someone has 1 or more trusted mechanics they probably should A. Either have deep pockets.Or B. not be owning an old benz
TSB from mb indicates 39K for the w211 models,same trans so good for them is good for you
Why would a trusted mechanic be draining oil from the engine?If he was trusted he would have been sucking the oil out.
Do it yourself next time.Takes 10 minutes to do a proper oil and filter change.
Do not flush machine a 722.6 trans.Drain pan replace filter fill with like amount and pump out till cleared via the trans cooling line.Easy diy.
BTW`if this is true
"but the transmission had been serviced several times"
You may have located the problem
And in my experience,if someone has 1 or more trusted mechanics they probably should A. Either have deep pockets.Or B. not be owning an old benz
Last edited by ohlord; May 12, 2009 at 04:28 AM.
Thread Starter
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From: Staunton,VA USA
2001 E-430
Follow Up
Just wanted to let you all know that the problem was diagnosed and fixed ....the hydraulic motor mounts had collapsed completely and were allowing the motor and transmission to put the drivetrain in a bind. The repair shop put in the new mounts and flushed and refilled the transmission w/MB Fluid.....the car is so quiet now I hardly hear it running at all. Guess the other guys were wrong about the torque converter.
They also said that the engine was extremely strong to have 160,000 miles and because I had the excess oil drained almost immediately they don't think anything else was affected.
The only logic I can come up with as to why the car just started making this noise after the oil change is that the mechanic had parked the car on an extremely steep incline and left it there for me to pick up......the leaking motor mounts must have drained themselves completely while sitting at that incline.
Thanks to all for your input.
They also said that the engine was extremely strong to have 160,000 miles and because I had the excess oil drained almost immediately they don't think anything else was affected.
The only logic I can come up with as to why the car just started making this noise after the oil change is that the mechanic had parked the car on an extremely steep incline and left it there for me to pick up......the leaking motor mounts must have drained themselves completely while sitting at that incline.
Thanks to all for your input.
