Consumer Report Gives Thumbs Down on German Cars
11-19-2005, 02:41 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by rjm
…it’s all about Prestige and Image and Snob Appeal...
Why is it that you are buyig a Lexus? Why not buy a Toyota... Not only is the reliability the same, but it is propably an even better value.
Don't mind difference of opinion. debate is great, but be honest with yourself man. You can lie to others but your just cheatin yourself. Makes me question your motivation for the debate. Maybe a need to justify your purchase. Maybe your looking for some acceptance to make you feel better. I would suggest some soul searchin.
11-19-2005, 03:06 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by platinumsc
I have owned both and here's my 2 cents.
No other car drives and feels like a benz. When you close the door a feeling of serenity and security envelops you. The ride is buttery smooth. Yes, I miss that. BUT, the dark side:
battery dies for no correctible reason
radio doesn't work at times for no correctible reason
engine leaked oil
coolant system had issues
gear shifter broke
air conditioner would mysteriously not work at times them blow super cold the next
It's been a few years and I'm sure I'm forgetting something. I agree that having a benz is still a desire but I won't do it until the cars are more reliable because that's important to me. You all will notice that not once will I degrade or put down the car or the people who own them the way some of you do here with us lexus owners. Someone mentioned the behavior of people on lexus sites. Well try it. Go to www.clublexus.com and browse around. You won't see us putting down benzes or people who own them. A lot of us had one and remember the sweetness and long for it's return.
In conclusion, from someone with experience, both are great cars. It depends on what's important to you. Like I said, for me it's reliability. Nothing rides like a benz but right now, lexus is on top.
No other car drives and feels like a benz. When you close the door a feeling of serenity and security envelops you. The ride is buttery smooth. Yes, I miss that. BUT, the dark side:
battery dies for no correctible reason
radio doesn't work at times for no correctible reason
engine leaked oil
coolant system had issues
gear shifter broke
air conditioner would mysteriously not work at times them blow super cold the next
It's been a few years and I'm sure I'm forgetting something. I agree that having a benz is still a desire but I won't do it until the cars are more reliable because that's important to me. You all will notice that not once will I degrade or put down the car or the people who own them the way some of you do here with us lexus owners. Someone mentioned the behavior of people on lexus sites. Well try it. Go to www.clublexus.com and browse around. You won't see us putting down benzes or people who own them. A lot of us had one and remember the sweetness and long for it's return.
In conclusion, from someone with experience, both are great cars. It depends on what's important to you. Like I said, for me it's reliability. Nothing rides like a benz but right now, lexus is on top.
11-19-2005, 03:10 PM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
One thing lost in this discussion..
Snobbery can only be laid on a car, if that car has a reason to have earned it.
I.E. MB cars have for 120 years been among the best (and most expensive) available. This will (due to the failings of human nature) lead to a "snob appeal" to such cars, as some who buy them, will buy them based on the fact that they ARE EXPENSIVE, but not for the reasons that they are expensive.. (if that makes any sense).
What I'm trying to say is... you generally get what you pay for, and the reason MB is pricey, is it's a lot of car..
I want people who see me in my E, not to say he's got $$.. I would like them to say, he has taste, or he's a smart guy driving the safest car in the world.. but frankly, the car isn't that expensive in todays world.. there are guys driving loaded up F350/450 Trucks with Diesels out here with stickers North of $60K.. it's about that legendary German manor, and driving experience that Japan cannot match. Japan has Germany beat hands down in reliability, but the overall driving experience is unmatched. My best friend has a Lexus coupe (SC430), and while it's a nice car in many ways it holds no comparison to an SL500.. let alone my E320 CDI.. I dove both and I can tell you the E is more sure footed, and elicits a sense of confidence the Lexus doesn't.
Joe, if you agree with me (and most of us here) that MB quality has fallen off, and that 20 years ago their cars were beyond reproach, why not share that view with MB, and MBUSA as a favor to all of us, and yourself so as to get them to return to that day.. rather than waste your time and ours trying to get us to drive a glorified Toyota.. which no matter how you engineer it, is still a Toyota.
Snobbery can only be laid on a car, if that car has a reason to have earned it.
I.E. MB cars have for 120 years been among the best (and most expensive) available. This will (due to the failings of human nature) lead to a "snob appeal" to such cars, as some who buy them, will buy them based on the fact that they ARE EXPENSIVE, but not for the reasons that they are expensive.. (if that makes any sense).
What I'm trying to say is... you generally get what you pay for, and the reason MB is pricey, is it's a lot of car..
I want people who see me in my E, not to say he's got $$.. I would like them to say, he has taste, or he's a smart guy driving the safest car in the world.. but frankly, the car isn't that expensive in todays world.. there are guys driving loaded up F350/450 Trucks with Diesels out here with stickers North of $60K.. it's about that legendary German manor, and driving experience that Japan cannot match. Japan has Germany beat hands down in reliability, but the overall driving experience is unmatched. My best friend has a Lexus coupe (SC430), and while it's a nice car in many ways it holds no comparison to an SL500.. let alone my E320 CDI.. I dove both and I can tell you the E is more sure footed, and elicits a sense of confidence the Lexus doesn't.
Joe, if you agree with me (and most of us here) that MB quality has fallen off, and that 20 years ago their cars were beyond reproach, why not share that view with MB, and MBUSA as a favor to all of us, and yourself so as to get them to return to that day.. rather than waste your time and ours trying to get us to drive a glorified Toyota.. which no matter how you engineer it, is still a Toyota.
11-19-2005, 04:06 PM
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i hate how the once-perfect german build quality is just deteriorating faster and faster. Why can't these German Companies realize that the reason people ar buying German cars, is so that they can have the best.
11-19-2005, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by CE750
Joe, if you agree with me (and most of us here) that MB quality has fallen off, and that 20 years ago their cars were beyond reproach, why not share that view with MB, and MBUSA as a favor to all of us, and yourself so as to get them to return to that day.. rather than waste your time and ours trying to get us to drive a glorified Toyota.. which no matter how you engineer it, is still a Toyota.
11-19-2005, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ajm0824
Given your pusuit and your afront to prestige, I ask you this...
Why is it that you are buyig a Lexus? Why not buy a Toyota... Not only is the reliability the same, but it is propably an even better value.
Why is it that you are buyig a Lexus? Why not buy a Toyota... Not only is the reliability the same, but it is propably an even better value.
Last edited by rjm; 11-19-2005 at 04:56 PM.
11-19-2005, 05:02 PM
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2005 E320
Originally Posted by rjm
Size, features, luxury, comfort, power, performance, reliability and dependibility, resale value....
hmmm... youve been touting reliability and value. Why not buy and Avalon instead of an LS430, a Camery instead of ES, and so on.
I think you forgot one atribute... prestige!
Thanks for making my point...lol
11-19-2005, 05:24 PM
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check this out:
"The Lexus brand is not well recognized in Europe, despite being there for nearly 15 years.
And even in the U.S., the cars' popularity is attributed primarily to price competitiveness, rather than to high-quality brand image, said Akihiro Nagaya, the general manager of Toyota's Lexus brand planning department.
For example, the Lexus flagship model, the LS, is about 20 percent cheaper than the BMW 7 series and the Mercedes-Benz S class, he said.
Nagaya said this "value-for-money" image must be altered and customers worldwide should be persuaded to pay more for the label.
"Japanese manufacturers in general have been mass-producing reasonably priced, high-quality goods, but each product generates only small profits," Nagaya said. "This is also true in the automobile industry and if we continue to stick to this process, the industry will be trapped in a narrow-margin business."
Over the past 12 years, Toyota's luxury car sales have declined 29 percent to 184,000 vehicles, while BMW sales have surged 36 percent to 38,700 units and Mercedes-Benz sales have jumped 50 percent to 44,400 vehicles, Nikko Citigroup said. (this is probably the figures for Japan. I'm not sure)
source:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/print...20050827a3.htm
"The Lexus brand is not well recognized in Europe, despite being there for nearly 15 years.
And even in the U.S., the cars' popularity is attributed primarily to price competitiveness, rather than to high-quality brand image, said Akihiro Nagaya, the general manager of Toyota's Lexus brand planning department.
For example, the Lexus flagship model, the LS, is about 20 percent cheaper than the BMW 7 series and the Mercedes-Benz S class, he said.
Nagaya said this "value-for-money" image must be altered and customers worldwide should be persuaded to pay more for the label.
"Japanese manufacturers in general have been mass-producing reasonably priced, high-quality goods, but each product generates only small profits," Nagaya said. "This is also true in the automobile industry and if we continue to stick to this process, the industry will be trapped in a narrow-margin business."
Over the past 12 years, Toyota's luxury car sales have declined 29 percent to 184,000 vehicles, while BMW sales have surged 36 percent to 38,700 units and Mercedes-Benz sales have jumped 50 percent to 44,400 vehicles, Nikko Citigroup said. (this is probably the figures for Japan. I'm not sure)
source:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/print...20050827a3.htm
Last edited by mick1; 11-19-2005 at 05:33 PM.
11-19-2005, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rjm
I'm not trying to get anyone to buy a Lexus ("glorified Toyota") or any other make of car. You should drive what you like. What I object to is the utter blindness of posters who think they are driving the best and most advanced car in the world and REFUSE to face the simple fact that, as you say, "MB quality has fallen off" (drastically) and that they have a long way to go to regain the number one spot in quality and value.
I personally have had none of the problems you happily report here in your posts and I DO think I'm driving a better car than yours according to my experiences as a owner.... So what, get over it. This is my opinion and I report it here on a Mercedes forum and not the Lexus forum.... I have no quality issues so the fact that MB quality has "fallen off" doesn't apply in my case and I'm not alone.
I'm happy for you that you bought a Lexus, now post the love for your car and its reliability at the lexus forum. Your posts aren't going to change anything here as much as we writing a letter to MB about cost cutting. If you know this to be fact as I do then your well aware that your posts are nothing more than "troll like" thus your reputation you have set for yourself.
11-19-2005, 06:32 PM
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2023 GLC 300 4MATIC
Hey, guess why I bought my Benz.................value? not really, quality? na not really, safety? uh, no, but all are nice perks..................I bought mine for the SNOB APPEAL and because it's so good looking!
Remember the little story of my manager and her LS getting no respect from the general public? Well, I followed her to the Benz dealer friday (she traded!) but on the way we made one call to an office. Three of the staff came outside as we left and with our cars parked beside each other (my 4 year old E and her 8 month old LS430) and they said, "Who's Benz!" She looked over at me and just laughed. "See my point now?" she said.
So that says it all.
I would never waste that much money on an LS. My sister has an Avalon and come on, how much different are they? About $30,000 different I guess. Now that is a waste of money.
Remember the little story of my manager and her LS getting no respect from the general public? Well, I followed her to the Benz dealer friday (she traded!) but on the way we made one call to an office. Three of the staff came outside as we left and with our cars parked beside each other (my 4 year old E and her 8 month old LS430) and they said, "Who's Benz!" She looked over at me and just laughed. "See my point now?" she said.
So that says it all.
I would never waste that much money on an LS. My sister has an Avalon and come on, how much different are they? About $30,000 different I guess. Now that is a waste of money.
11-20-2005, 08:05 AM
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'09 911 C4S
So far I'm extremely happy with my purchase of the W211, buttery smooth ride, reasonably good on the twisty. I had a chance to drive on a Route 3A from Boston to Hingham yesterday. I was happily surprised that the beast in stock form is so maneuverable. If you're a happy owner of the W211, why bother with this dude? He's just a troll that needs to justify his insecurities about buying a Lexus.
11-21-2005, 01:34 PM
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Celebrate diversity fellas!
Sorry, just had to interject some Monday morning humor here.
We all drive what we like. We all drive what we've got in our garages. We all have our opinions. Anybody remember the Dr. Seuss book with the "one stars" and "no stars" creatures? This conversation reminds me of that story....
Sorry, just had to interject some Monday morning humor here.
We all drive what we like. We all drive what we've got in our garages. We all have our opinions. Anybody remember the Dr. Seuss book with the "one stars" and "no stars" creatures? This conversation reminds me of that story....
11-21-2005, 01:59 PM
#64
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This forum is always full with mucho ego tied to a car or a brand. Open mindness is complete lacking.
MB is not what it used to be. Face it. The quality is in the dumpster and design is not what is used to be as well (except the new S-class, based on what i have read so far, looks like a technical wonder. That is what MB should be at all time, but has been lacking during last 15 years or so).
Japanese do make good cars. The GS drives better than the W211 simple as that. I can careless where a car came from as long as the product itself is good. What is wrong with a glorified toyota? Does that mean toyota is a bad company makes bad product?
Don't think so. Without company like toyota, MB will never react and quality will continue to slide. No one benefit from that.
In addition, MB's product until the new S-class arrives are badly designed and poorly assembled.
Take my wife's CLK for example. Within 16k miles, transmission already died and replaced, rear sway nearly disassembled itself, tailight diassembled by itself and fell to the ground while driving, 1st top replaced due to damaged cause by poor alignment of top, and the top died again. The SOHC 3.2 V6 is loud and sound horrible. Yes it does look good and get attention. But the product itself is bad.
Personally i buy a car because the car itself is good. I don't care what kind of attention i am getting. The simple fact is that current MB product offering is simply not up to par for the $$ DCX is charging.
I feel kind of sad that I have become so familiar with Enterpise rental car agents (i still have not gone through a week that I don't have a DCX rental in my drive way- except on vacation).
Never understood why blind faith is so persistent especially for people who spend $$$ on the car.
MB is not what it used to be. Face it. The quality is in the dumpster and design is not what is used to be as well (except the new S-class, based on what i have read so far, looks like a technical wonder. That is what MB should be at all time, but has been lacking during last 15 years or so).
Japanese do make good cars. The GS drives better than the W211 simple as that. I can careless where a car came from as long as the product itself is good. What is wrong with a glorified toyota? Does that mean toyota is a bad company makes bad product?
Don't think so. Without company like toyota, MB will never react and quality will continue to slide. No one benefit from that.
In addition, MB's product until the new S-class arrives are badly designed and poorly assembled.
Take my wife's CLK for example. Within 16k miles, transmission already died and replaced, rear sway nearly disassembled itself, tailight diassembled by itself and fell to the ground while driving, 1st top replaced due to damaged cause by poor alignment of top, and the top died again. The SOHC 3.2 V6 is loud and sound horrible. Yes it does look good and get attention. But the product itself is bad.
Personally i buy a car because the car itself is good. I don't care what kind of attention i am getting. The simple fact is that current MB product offering is simply not up to par for the $$ DCX is charging.
I feel kind of sad that I have become so familiar with Enterpise rental car agents (i still have not gone through a week that I don't have a DCX rental in my drive way- except on vacation).
Never understood why blind faith is so persistent especially for people who spend $$$ on the car.
11-21-2005, 05:10 PM
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'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by lig
^^^ Well said, krispy.
A bit over the top for me..
The E is 90% perfect.. it just needs a company to implement it better.. remove it's lows.. revamp its electrical system... thats all.
Listing to Krispy you get the impression the E is below a Toyota Corolla..
11-21-2005, 06:14 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by CE750
A bit over the top for me..
The E is 90% perfect.. it just needs a company to implement it better.. remove it's lows.. revamp its electrical system... thats all.
Listing to Krispy you get the impression the E is below a Toyota Corolla..
The E is 90% perfect.. it just needs a company to implement it better.. remove it's lows.. revamp its electrical system... thats all.
Listing to Krispy you get the impression the E is below a Toyota Corolla..
yeah yeah. who is comparing the E to corolla?
Stop putting word in my mouth.
The simple fact is that the current E does not have good vehicle dynamic, nor has quality to justify the price tag.
Since i owned two W211, i think i know what I am talking about.
11-21-2005, 06:57 PM
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2011 E350 Cabriolet..White and Almond Mocha
My W211 was a jewel...not a service call in 2 years (except to replace a noisey power steering pump the SA found). It handled as well as any MB I ever had, was a beautiful design and was consistent with my prior MB's (17 of them so I know what I am talking about.)
My S (being considered a classic design) is the absolutely best MB's I have owned. It is flawless in it's fit and finish and the engine and transmission is a fantastic combination of power and smoothness.
Yes the quality problems with the MB are mostly the electrical and newer engineered features and I am sure that some products have been less than satisfactory for some buyers. However, I am not going to join the bash party and totally trash the brand like some enjoy doing on these forums. Everyone seems to be an expert on MB and what it was like and how it has been relegated to the bottom of the JD Power rankings. All I know is I had first hand experience with some of the problem models and I do not find nor can I agree with the criticisms and comparisons with Lexus. Lexus can copy the design and add the junk trims but they cannot reproduce the ride nor the ambiance a MB.
If you are not happy sell your POS MB and go buy some other brand. I for one do not give a damn about the features of other cars or how they compare...you are damn right I have a closed mind and am a "True Believer." That's why I have made MB my primary car for 30 years. That is why I partcipate on these forums. I enjoy my MB and I will continue to enjoy them.
My S (being considered a classic design) is the absolutely best MB's I have owned. It is flawless in it's fit and finish and the engine and transmission is a fantastic combination of power and smoothness.
Yes the quality problems with the MB are mostly the electrical and newer engineered features and I am sure that some products have been less than satisfactory for some buyers. However, I am not going to join the bash party and totally trash the brand like some enjoy doing on these forums. Everyone seems to be an expert on MB and what it was like and how it has been relegated to the bottom of the JD Power rankings. All I know is I had first hand experience with some of the problem models and I do not find nor can I agree with the criticisms and comparisons with Lexus. Lexus can copy the design and add the junk trims but they cannot reproduce the ride nor the ambiance a MB.
If you are not happy sell your POS MB and go buy some other brand. I for one do not give a damn about the features of other cars or how they compare...you are damn right I have a closed mind and am a "True Believer." That's why I have made MB my primary car for 30 years. That is why I partcipate on these forums. I enjoy my MB and I will continue to enjoy them.
11-21-2005, 07:17 PM
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2005 E320
Originally Posted by krispykrme
...
Since i owned two W211, i think i know what I am talking about.
Since i owned two W211, i think i know what I am talking about.
I too have my gripes about the car/brand yet still would make the same decision again..
Supprising that no one has yet made mention of safty record. While I'm sure the Toyota brand bodes well.
"...A new report by the Insurance Instt for Highway Safety has rthe mercedes E class with the lowest fatality rate of ANY car/SUV/pickup on the road. The numbers are stunning, with E class having 10 fatalities per million registered vehicles with Chevvy Blazer having 308!!. This is partly due to design and partly due to driving habits, however, Jaguar S type was 68...."
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211/101494-new-insurance-institute-highway-safety-report.html
SRC: Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, Highway Loss Data Institute http://www.iihs.org/ratings/summary.aspx?class=10
I don't know about you but I both enjoy the ride and... rest a bit more assured when my family is in the car.
oh yeah.. sure Nevada take us in the right direction!
11-21-2005, 07:36 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by Nevada Jack
My W211 was a jewel...not a service call in 2 years (except to replace a noisey power steering pump the SA found). It handled as well as any MB I ever had, was a beautiful design and was consistent with my prior MB's (17 of them so I know what I am talking about.)
My S (being considered a classic design) is the absolutely best MB's I have owned. It is flawless in it's fit and finish and the engine and transmission is a fantastic combination of power and smoothness.
Yes the quality problems with the MB are mostly the electrical and newer engineered features and I am sure that some products have been less than satisfactory for some buyers. However, I am not going to join the bash party and totally trash the brand like some enjoy doing on these forums. Everyone seems to be an expert on MB and what it was like and how it has been relegated to the bottom of the JD Power rankings. All I know is I had first hand experience with some of the problem models and I do not find nor can I agree with the criticisms and comparisons with Lexus. Lexus can copy the design and add the junk trims but they cannot reproduce the ride nor the ambiance a MB.
If you are not happy sell your POS MB and go buy some other brand. I for one do not give a damn about the features of other cars or how they compare...you are damn right I have a closed mind and am a "True Believer." That's why I have made MB my primary car for 30 years. That is why I partcipate on these forums. I enjoy my MB and I will continue to enjoy them.
My S (being considered a classic design) is the absolutely best MB's I have owned. It is flawless in it's fit and finish and the engine and transmission is a fantastic combination of power and smoothness.
Yes the quality problems with the MB are mostly the electrical and newer engineered features and I am sure that some products have been less than satisfactory for some buyers. However, I am not going to join the bash party and totally trash the brand like some enjoy doing on these forums. Everyone seems to be an expert on MB and what it was like and how it has been relegated to the bottom of the JD Power rankings. All I know is I had first hand experience with some of the problem models and I do not find nor can I agree with the criticisms and comparisons with Lexus. Lexus can copy the design and add the junk trims but they cannot reproduce the ride nor the ambiance a MB.
If you are not happy sell your POS MB and go buy some other brand. I for one do not give a damn about the features of other cars or how they compare...you are damn right I have a closed mind and am a "True Believer." That's why I have made MB my primary car for 30 years. That is why I partcipate on these forums. I enjoy my MB and I will continue to enjoy them.
Gee what a double standard.
You can believe all you want, just like people who believed that earth is flat. Nobody is forcing you to grow up or mature and use your brain cell for once in your life.
New engineering feature? I failed to see a 5 speed automatic gear box would breakdown and needs a replacement, tailight would disintegrate, sway bar become loose, two bad convertible top (this is my 2nd control unit and motor on the wife's lemon) as NEW ENGINEER ITEM or ELECTRICAL PROBLEMS. None of these are new or super advance in their design or application.
MB is no so perfect in terms of original idea. Guess they copied BMW's I-drive design and shifter as well. Funny thing is that DCX is the one who took out full page ad slamming the I-drive only to comeback and design their own version of i-drive.
See the reality is always different from imagination of a "true believer". MB would never improve if there are customer that is stuck in dark age. Perhaps we should all go back to the earth is flat dark age. Everyone would be happy to use their feet to get from point A to point B. Obviously to some people in this forum, the mere concept of competition brings innovation is scary and heresy.
11-21-2005, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by krispykrme
MB is not what it used to be. Face it. The quality is in the dumpster and design is not what is used to be as well (except the new S-class, based on what i have read so far, looks like a technical wonder. That is what MB should be at all time, but has been lacking during last 15 years or so).
Krispy,
Please explain why is it you own 3 MB's yet hate them so much.... I'm sure it could'nt be that you didn't know that they were such P.O.S's before you bought them????? I mean you clearly state the quality has been "in the dumpster" for 15 years, yet you still bought them....
It seems to me you get great pleasure from coming here to tell us how Phucked-up our cars are.....
11-21-2005, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by krispykrme
This forum is always full with mucho ego tied to a car or a brand. Open mindness is complete lacking.
MB is not what it used to be. Face it. The quality is in the dumpster and design is not what is used to be as well (except the new S-class, based on what i have read so far, looks like a technical wonder. That is what MB should be at all time, but has been lacking during last 15 years or so).
Japanese do make good cars. The GS drives better than the W211 simple as that. I can careless where a car came from as long as the product itself is good. What is wrong with a glorified toyota? Does that mean toyota is a bad company makes bad product?
Don't think so. Without company like toyota, MB will never react and quality will continue to slide. No one benefit from that.
In addition, MB's product until the new S-class arrives are badly designed and poorly assembled.
Take my wife's CLK for example. Within 16k miles, transmission already died and replaced, rear sway nearly disassembled itself, tailight diassembled by itself and fell to the ground while driving, 1st top replaced due to damaged cause by poor alignment of top, and the top died again. The SOHC 3.2 V6 is loud and sound horrible. Yes it does look good and get attention. But the product itself is bad.
Personally i buy a car because the car itself is good. I don't care what kind of attention i am getting. The simple fact is that current MB product offering is simply not up to par for the $$ DCX is charging.
I feel kind of sad that I have become so familiar with Enterpise rental car agents (i still have not gone through a week that I don't have a DCX rental in my drive way- except on vacation).
Never understood why blind faith is so persistent especially for people who spend $$$ on the car.
MB is not what it used to be. Face it. The quality is in the dumpster and design is not what is used to be as well (except the new S-class, based on what i have read so far, looks like a technical wonder. That is what MB should be at all time, but has been lacking during last 15 years or so).
Japanese do make good cars. The GS drives better than the W211 simple as that. I can careless where a car came from as long as the product itself is good. What is wrong with a glorified toyota? Does that mean toyota is a bad company makes bad product?
Don't think so. Without company like toyota, MB will never react and quality will continue to slide. No one benefit from that.
In addition, MB's product until the new S-class arrives are badly designed and poorly assembled.
Take my wife's CLK for example. Within 16k miles, transmission already died and replaced, rear sway nearly disassembled itself, tailight diassembled by itself and fell to the ground while driving, 1st top replaced due to damaged cause by poor alignment of top, and the top died again. The SOHC 3.2 V6 is loud and sound horrible. Yes it does look good and get attention. But the product itself is bad.
Personally i buy a car because the car itself is good. I don't care what kind of attention i am getting. The simple fact is that current MB product offering is simply not up to par for the $$ DCX is charging.
I feel kind of sad that I have become so familiar with Enterpise rental car agents (i still have not gone through a week that I don't have a DCX rental in my drive way- except on vacation).
Never understood why blind faith is so persistent especially for people who spend $$$ on the car.
Krispykrme.....You Da Man!!! Truth and Honesty Rocks
11-21-2005, 07:45 PM
#74
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
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2015 ML 350
The E's are very good cars. Part of the reason for the lower amount of standard features when compared to Japanese Lux cars is due to the fact that when MB designs a new model they start with a clean sheet of paper & design from the ground up, new. (Thats why different lines get different manufacturers Navs with different capabilities... there was a different design team working on that car who saw things differently.)
The cars would cost much more if all of Lexus's standard features were included in the E. I too feel that many people drive a stripped Benz and don't even realize it, or think that it is stripped... but they like the car's basic engineering. You can't knock the ride and stability of a Benz! Lexus, on the other hand has virtually the same car lineup as some Toyota models, which have all been refined to perfection in their home market before ever seeing the light of day here. All they do is take a model and dress it up a little more & sell it in a Lexus store instead of a Toyota store.
The fact is that MB was late to the party with all the new Gee Whiz electronic features, and a decision was made to push the new model cars out the door anyway. (They HAD to replace the previous generation E, It just wasn't the "Home Run" that MB wanted, although it WAS a bridge car between ITS predecessor and the 211, so time was of the essence.
I believe that MB in Germany is seeing the error of that line of thinking now. I don't expect a Nav system that is great in one line will not be used in another model line, there will not be so many separate design teams any more. Its too expensive, and leads to some systems being good and some bad across different car lines within MB.
The new MBs are NOT the "flawless, Million mile, 20 year cars" of MBs past. They will deliver a perfect car again by the time the next E class is unveiled, and will ascend to the top again. I don't know that MB will attempt to build 20 year cars anymore anyway, with most MBs being leased for 39 months, people are ready for a new one real soon.
The fact is: Flawed or Not, NOTHING else is a Benz... anyone who drives one knows.
The cars would cost much more if all of Lexus's standard features were included in the E. I too feel that many people drive a stripped Benz and don't even realize it, or think that it is stripped... but they like the car's basic engineering. You can't knock the ride and stability of a Benz! Lexus, on the other hand has virtually the same car lineup as some Toyota models, which have all been refined to perfection in their home market before ever seeing the light of day here. All they do is take a model and dress it up a little more & sell it in a Lexus store instead of a Toyota store.
The fact is that MB was late to the party with all the new Gee Whiz electronic features, and a decision was made to push the new model cars out the door anyway. (They HAD to replace the previous generation E, It just wasn't the "Home Run" that MB wanted, although it WAS a bridge car between ITS predecessor and the 211, so time was of the essence.
I believe that MB in Germany is seeing the error of that line of thinking now. I don't expect a Nav system that is great in one line will not be used in another model line, there will not be so many separate design teams any more. Its too expensive, and leads to some systems being good and some bad across different car lines within MB.
The new MBs are NOT the "flawless, Million mile, 20 year cars" of MBs past. They will deliver a perfect car again by the time the next E class is unveiled, and will ascend to the top again. I don't know that MB will attempt to build 20 year cars anymore anyway, with most MBs being leased for 39 months, people are ready for a new one real soon.
The fact is: Flawed or Not, NOTHING else is a Benz... anyone who drives one knows.
Last edited by Barry45RPM; 11-21-2005 at 07:48 PM.
11-21-2005, 07:49 PM
#75
Super Member
Originally Posted by HELL ONA HARLEY
Krispy,
Please explain why is it you own 3 MB's yet hate them so much.... I'm sure it could'nt be that you didn't know that they were such P.O.S's before you bought them????? I mean you clearly state the quality has been "in the dumpster" for 15 years, yet you still bought them.... It seems to me you get great pleasure from coming here to tell us how Phucked-up our cars are.....
Please explain why is it you own 3 MB's yet hate them so much.... I'm sure it could'nt be that you didn't know that they were such P.O.S's before you bought them????? I mean you clearly state the quality has been "in the dumpster" for 15 years, yet you still bought them....
It seems to me you get great pleasure from coming here to tell us how Phucked-up our cars are.....1XE500, 1XE55, 1xCLK, 1XG55.
Other than E55 and G55, which i chose simply because there was no alternative on the market at the time. To this day there is still no alternative on the G.
E500 was a settlement vehicle which i can't discuss. CLK was wife's choice.
I did know and have seen bad DCX quality since my family has always been MB family (typical asian). All of my family has been pretty much like typical owners here (you and nevada jack), that refuse to see anything else and be open minded. Take my mother for example, all she knows that MB is excellent and BMW has quality problems. That despite the fact that she has never owned a BMW, and has spend numerous $$$ and time on getting her MB fix both here and in taiwan for as long as i can remember.
I simply don't buy that and has not been satisfied since i bought MB. I don't hate MB but I refuse to be a lemming and follow the blind path like majority of people here.
Instead of question other's motive, why not take a truthful look into the product itself.
My wife was a die hard MB user and fan. But her CLK has been a totally POS since day one and she has now been converted to BMW. Why not ask MBUSA to better design and manufacturer their product?
I am in process of dumping all mercedes, except the G55(quiet solid thus far) and E55 (thanks to poor resale value on the W211, it makes no sense to dump it, plus it compliments my M5 very well and does have it merit).
Going into MB, i had thought that it probably would be as bad as BMW. But so far i have been proven wrong. MB does have nice service but the product itself is not good.
You guys are doing so well in preparing the god brand propaganda, i think i can do a good job by telling the truth. Simple as that.
