monstaloc

I think the same will happen to me. Time to get me the nav. Thanks for all your feedback.

CE750

So I have to ask..

Do you have Photoshop, or something where I can see the picture on my laptop and not have to go to my 23" mac to see it?

As for the NAVi, most of us agree, it's dated.. what's your point?

krispykrme

i do have photo shop. I will resize later tonight.

these pictures are over a year old and was used in previous discussion.

point. No point except to point out the IllCDI is complete wrong.

I know MB's system is dated. Nothing wrong with that. Just give credit where it is due.

Any japanese navi, or BMW navi is now better than command. simple as that.

AJU_E350

I thought the E55's have different pedals. The two I saw at the dealer did, maybe it was the '06. I thought they had more of a metal "racing" type pedal.

krispykrme

you are talking about the AMG metallic pedal right?

It's not on my E55 (never paid attention to that). But some how my wife's CLK with AMG appearance pkg. comes with a set of metal pedal.

AJU_E350

I just figured it was standard.... thats a pretty cool "affordable" upgrade that I would have thought MB would include in the price of the vehicle. Useless, but looks pretty nice.

W210

I agree with the above comments.

In my Honda Odyssey with a huge touch screen screen up on the top of the dash, it sounds good on paper but I find it hard to use with a lot of flaws.

1. I find my hand/arm having to suspend in the air messing with the virtual buttons. Very easy to make mistakes due to road bumps and it's not comfortable.

2. My eyes have to check on two places, the area of the virtual buttons (which by design will obviously be partially covered by my finger), and the address input slot. After pressing each button, while I will hear the helpful beep, I have to glance back and forth to see if I have made a mistake. The system should at least read out the entry.

3. With the keypad/joystick style setup, my fingers do not block part of the screen making it far easier for me to see what I'm doing.

4. And it's also more comfortable having my arm on the armrest while inputting data, instead of suspended in the air.

5. Certain functions cannot be replaced by joysticks, I find it far easier to input phone numbers using a physical numeric keypad than a virtual on screen one. Pressing on the screen simply does not give one the useful tactile feedback.

6. I don't think one can blindly praise all Japanese navigation systems. I for one cannot stand the way the new Acura RL arranges the virtual phone keypad on the screen, instead of having the standard 4 rows:

123
456
789
*0#

they decided to mimic the old school rotary placement going in a circle?!

The BMW iDrive one isn't any better, last time I checked on the 5 series, they have numbers arranged in a linear fashion on screen:

1234567890#*

And one has to scroll with the silly iDrive knob like tuning a 70s radio to enter the 10 digits!

Of course, there is voice recognition, but why not have voice recognition and a real keypad that works 100 times better than the virtual ones?!

7. Another beef I have with all other navigation systems besides the MB one is that MB makes the only system saving us from the damn lawyer's disclaimer screen. Audi has it, BMW has it, Honda has it, Toyota has it, and Toyota even takes a step further disallowing one to make changes while on the go, how pathetic.

8. Sure, MB forces you do buy their ancient expensive phones that are obsolete, but you know what, besides having to plug the damn thing in every time, at least it works! I don't need to run around between car manufacturer, cell provider and phone manufacturer to find out if my latest bluetooth is fully compatible with my car. So many uncertainties with the infant bluetooth phone/car match:

- can your entire address book be downloaded to the car automatically?
- can you read your text messages on the car?
- can your car match your address book's names to the incoming numbers?
- can your car offer a cradle charger for your phone (when bluetooth kills your battery)?
- can your car offer a booster antenna for your phone for the best reception?

Trust me, I have looked long and hard into the above, and even with the latest 2006 BMW setup, there are only one or two phones that can do all of the above. And guess what, it's the same obsolete V710 that MB offers.

Bluetooth is the right direction but there are still lots of things they need to sort out. There is no perfect system out there, it's all very personal. If you're a heavy user like myself, be prepared to spend lots of time researching. With the MB V60, I can blame MB, with bluetooth, it's finger pointing all the way, phone firmware, car latest software version, you name it.

CE750

German ergonomics are the best IMHO.. the Japanese cars tend to get to complex. and have too many buttons, and are just generally very busy inside.

aceman

Sam,

Gotta disagree with you there. I've never had a car where i had to take my eyes off the road to change presets. I've never had a car where you can't see what setting you have the wiper stalk on unless you bend your neck to look behind the steering wheel. I think the ergonomics for the w211 are much better for right hand drive cars but at 6'0, reaching across the dash / comand to choice radio stations is something that just requires way too much effort.

Just my 2 cents!

Aceman

krispykrme

Same thing applies to the command. In fact, since command buttons are so much smaller chances are you are going to make more mistakes.

Also the command direction button is on the right. It's a reach for me.

This is true. But you have voice recognition, why would you insist on inputing it by hand? Also, this is present on none dvd command.


How does it work better than a touch screen? The screen is closer to you and much easier to reach. And you can have bigger button. Don't give me that the virtual button will block your view crap. Because the same issue applies the actual key pad. When you are pressing the key pad, you are in effect blocking the view of that key pad.

Not to mention that key pad is all the way on the passenger side of command. You may have long reach. But not everyone is 6'.

Moreover, the command sits way lower in the dash. How are you not going to be able to take the eyes off the road?

The i-drive may be tideous to use with rotary buttons. But it does not require you as a driver to take the eyes off the road. The command buttons by virtue of sitting so low, requires you to move your eyes.

So how is this more safer or easier to use if you as a driver has to move your eyes downward away from traffic?


Why don't you blame the lawyers for bring on so much ridiculous suit in the 1st place.

In addition, in case you haven't find out. Lexus/Toyota can be hacked to allow input in motion. So your point does not hold water either.

I guess it is so difficult for you to click i agree just one lousy times at start of the car.

How many buttons have you pushed by typing this post? I guess it is so troublesome to punch on button that all of the suddent this is a huge beef?

Well i guess you haven't done your homework as you claimed to have done.

All Motorlla V-series phone works with BMW bluetooth setup (including all the function you mentioned- save the text message, haven't tried it).

In fact the BMW bluetooth has additional voice calling function even if your did not setup your phone with dial by voice to begin with.

On my old V551 i can call anyone in the address book with voice dialing without me setting up the voice dialing on the phone. For example, I want to call stephanie smith. All i have to do is say dial stephanie. The I-drive will automatic try to match stephanie as entry in my cellphone. That is despite that i did not bother to program the voice calling feature on V551 for that address book entry.

I can also do that with razor, except BMW still do not have a phone cradle for it. Hence i lose the charger and antenna.

The same also works with my nokia phone as well.

I guess you haven't done your homework in detail.

IllCDI

krispy,

There is a reason why all German Car companies use buttons instead of touch screen. This is due to safety and ergonomics. You can use these units with gloves on. Whats easier to memorize, the location of a key or a certain sequence then the virtual position of that key? Personally speaking, and being an owner of a car with both units (like you), I can see why Mercedes designed their system the way they did. Its not distracting. Something that I cannot say about my Lexus' nav unit. I love how it integrates with the cluster and allows me to see vital nav/radio functions on the cluster. This is what I was referring to with regards to not having to take your eyes off the road. I was not referring to actual navigation unit placement. How can you say that cluster integration is not a siginifcant benefit over a single display touch screen? Is it not safer?

krispykrme

That's only one thing that MB command has over japanese navi is the direction display in the instrument panel.

That i am not disputing. I don't understand why Japanese don't bring over their HUD technology because they do have ability to do that on their car domestically, which like I-drive with HUD will display navigation direction on the windshield.

However, everything else you have stated is simply not true. How is it not distracting if you have to take you eyes off road, using small unmark buttons in sub menu, and use a key pad that is all the way to the passenger side of command?

How is it better if it takes you a place that at times is 1/4 miles away from your true destination?

Also, virtual button does not mysteriously flow through the screen it stays at same place. I really don't see how tiny unmarked command buttons would work better with clearly marked large virtual buttons.

I don't get it. We still have not gotten into search function that both Japanese an BMW navigation offers that is so poorly designed in MB command.

CE750

There are issues, I admit, but overall I like the layout.. and contrary to most people, I LOVE THE CRUISE CONTROL STALK!

krispykrme

huh?

Let's do a count shall we.

On the W211 command we have 45 buttons. 8 on the left, 10 small sub menu buttons, 12 on the key pad, 5 in the button, 8 for direction, one for enter, one for power.

On my poorly designed toyota navi I have 3 buttons on the left, 4 buttons on the bottom, and 5 on the right. Plus 2 knobs.

OMG, i did not know that 12 buttons+2 knobs is far more busier than 45 buttons on the command.

Wow, we just came up with new number theory.

RunninRS

You guys think you have it bad...
I'm sitting here in Michigan with my newly installed MB NAV system in my E500 and all I have is a european DVD.
Kind of fun though.. if ya zoom way out on the map.. the end of the world looks to be about 500 miles due west of England. Also funny watching it try to calculate a route from Detroit to Berlin.
One of these days I'll get a US DVD and see exactly all the issues (or non-issues) the MB NAV has.
But.. all this *****ing has given me an idea....time to bust out my MOST network monitor and see what is being sent to the display from the DVD drive.
I'm sure I can 'hack' in an aftermarket system AND get the controls to work from the COMMAND (and steering wheel).
Just about finished with a device to add in an aftermarket amp to the MOST ring .. guess navigation is next task.

CE750

They are all grouped together... and not scattered about like on the japanese cars. And surely you're not going to count the numeric key pad as separate buttons?

Nevada Jack

I am only going to make a short correction for KK and then I will leave this thread.

It is COMAND...not command...do your homework...:-)

Bye

Calcio

And if you count all of the buttons in the vehicle and add the numerical values of the keypad, it come to 108. Or maybe not, I may have Lost count

CE750

I'm sorry to break up the debate, but I just re-read this, and could help but .. is this guy serious?

He calls me pilot (I haven been a full time pilot in 4 years) like he knows me and then gets ticked at me for not having "my facts straight" .., then he threatens to sue me..

I'm quaking in my shoes.

akbro93704

the '05's(except early build ones) had the rubber studded aluminum pedals, as do the '06's

W210

I agree the COMAND direction arrows are on the right which is slightly inconvenient. However, I still find it far more comfortable reaching out when my arm is comfortably resting on the armrest.

I always find physical buttons less prone to mistakes, as you have a solid 'feel' which button you have pressed (or are about to press), with touch screen, you could be pressing in between two buttons and you will not even know.

I have tried numerous voice recognition and they are not perfect. It's most frustrating having to make corrections. Further, alpha numeric input is only possible when using an alpha numeric keypad.

I don't think you get my point, when I use the regular buttons, say the numeric keypad, there is always a little indent at the 5 key, similar to a normal keyboard, right at the F and J keys, or D and K.

As a result, one can easily 'touch type', ever seen your secretary at work? One can never touch type on a flat surface or on a virtual keyboard. When I dig out my phone, I can dial without looking, but with a virtual keyboard, it'll force me to look at the screen.

The bigger screen helps, but good only for reading information. The large screen actually forces my hand to have to reach out more, suspended in the air uncomfortably. I like big screens, but I want to be able to enter information without having to reach out to touch the large screen.


When driving, I find myself using the dash display at the speedometer. I like to look directly in front, best would be the heads up display from the M5, but looking sideway to the center of the dash, I find a little distracting, same with looking down on the COMAND screen when driving.



I'm not going to blame the lawyers, the legal system or democracy for the screen. All I know is that I do not have to face the inconvenience in the MB, unlike other systems, which I just love.

Is there a hack to disable the Honda lawyer's screen? To me, it's a distraction more than anything else.

You have not done your homework when replying to my post, and incorrectly assumed that I'm living in the US. Here in Canada, the only model that has the features I listed is the V710. The V600, Razor do not have the antenna attachment. There is no such thing as the V551 here.

However, you're correct the BMW has an added feature to eliminate users from having to reprogram voice dialling separately.

krispykrme

The same thing apply to pretty much all Japanese sedan with touch screen.

The minivan you and i have have screen much higher on the dash. But you can't compare where the navi sits in a minivan to where command sits in the E class. The fact of matter is that other than inifniti and RL, the rest of Japanese navigation system sit exactly where the command sits in the E. Therefore your claim of benefit on the E also applies to majority of Japanese sedan.

But what is the different from a virtual keypad on the screen?

I don't buy this. The virtual keypad is arranged in the same pattern as the regular phone. If you can remember the keys on your phone, you can do that as well on the screen. Razr for example has flat dialing surface.


How?
From the picture the command key pad is all the way in the opposite end of the head unit. While the toyota system screen is in the middle of head unit. So how is it more reach to use japanese virtual buttoms? The head unit size does not change.

Not i am aware of.


Not true. You have V635, V265 for new phones. The V551 despite being old was avaible in canada. Not to mention even older phones such as V60.

I just went on the motorla website. Pretty much all phone available in US is available in canada.

BTW, just a quick search of ebay canada.

I have already found brand new Roger communication V551 (locked).
V551

There are host of other phones that i won't go into detail.

You just need to look deeper.

KosherBenz

it doesnt take someone with a masters degree to figure out that the system is terribly flawed. Look at the competition, its self explanitory.

ultraseven

Where's tuscanraider when we need him most?

W210

Krispy, you call BMW Canada and find out directly what phones they support, only three. V710, V600 and Razor. And out of the 3, only V710 comes with a docking station in the car.

Regarding the virtual keypad vs. regular keypad, try entering numbers on a screen not looking and you'll know what I mean. I can dial with my eyes closed on the 7 series dial pad, or COMAND without looking, I doubt anyone can do the same on a virtual touch screen keypad.