Why are MB vehicles so (too??) expensive? And, no, this is not a "troll" post. (more)
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Originally Posted by lig
I would be happy to apologize if I am wrong - so mods - por favor - run an IP check on this account and look for matching IP accounts.
If he turns out to be who he is, you and rjm need to eat some crow for us though.
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2004 E500
Good point- Always wanted an MP5
Originally Posted by lig
^^^^ This could be one of the very few times I agree with you 100% 
We've never talked about guns. I love German guns. Mostly all HKs.
We've never talked about guns. I love German guns. Mostly all HKs.
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was '03 E320 - now - '04 S4
I recall reading about the caseless technology a while back. Sounded very cool. Have to admit I don't know anything about it though.
My HK rifles are old school - an HK 93 (all my buddies had AR15s and CARs) so we would reload together back in the day and my favorite - an HK 94 - collapsable stock/slim forend/high capacity mags (all pre-ban of course)
They were always annoyed at the way the HK left the brass with those little fluted marks on them hehe...
I never understood why the U.S. went with M-16s with so many other great weapons out there.
My HK rifles are old school - an HK 93 (all my buddies had AR15s and CARs) so we would reload together back in the day and my favorite - an HK 94 - collapsable stock/slim forend/high capacity mags (all pre-ban of course)
They were always annoyed at the way the HK left the brass with those little fluted marks on them hehe...
I never understood why the U.S. went with M-16s with so many other great weapons out there.
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Originally Posted by Nevada Jack
Your responses are getting darker and larger....afraid someone won't read your posts rjm? LLOL
I just wanted to make it big enough so even YOU could see it Jack....looks like it worked.
Last edited by rjm; Nov 30, 2005 at 02:54 PM.
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From: san francisco
C32
Ich bin ein Berliner! Ich Hail! Hontoni arigato gozaima****a, Tayamo san.
Ignoring the stereotypical junk in K's post, Japan is a very status conscious nation and they often deem European and American products to be "better". Of course, in *their* eyes, the other Asians are meant to be stepped on.
Also note that there's a 100% tariff on foreign cars, which contributes to the elevated status. The wealthiest often prefer in sit in black/blue German or Italian sedans, but some prefer the Nissan Presidents and Toyota Centurys.
Ignoring the stereotypical junk in K's post, Japan is a very status conscious nation and they often deem European and American products to be "better". Of course, in *their* eyes, the other Asians are meant to be stepped on.
Also note that there's a 100% tariff on foreign cars, which contributes to the elevated status. The wealthiest often prefer in sit in black/blue German or Italian sedans, but some prefer the Nissan Presidents and Toyota Centurys.
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04 E320 4 Matic, 95 Audi S6, 99 Carrera 4 Cabrio, 12 Fiat 500 Sport, 00 BMW R1200C 10, BMW R1200R
Originally Posted by ultraseven
Ich bin ein Berliner! Ich Hail! Hontoni arigato gozaima****a, Tayamo san.
Ignoring the stereotypical junk in K's post, Japan is a very status conscious nation and they often deem European and American products to be "better". Of course, in *their* eyes, the other Asians are meant to be stepped on.
Also note that there's a 100% tariff on foreign cars, which contributes to the elevated status. The wealthiest often prefer in sit in black/blue German or Italian sedans, but some prefer the Nissan Presidents and Toyota Centurys.
Ignoring the stereotypical junk in K's post, Japan is a very status conscious nation and they often deem European and American products to be "better". Of course, in *their* eyes, the other Asians are meant to be stepped on.
Also note that there's a 100% tariff on foreign cars, which contributes to the elevated status. The wealthiest often prefer in sit in black/blue German or Italian sedans, but some prefer the Nissan Presidents and Toyota Centurys.
Anyway, German cars in Japan ARE KING! Nothing else to say about this FACT!
Steve
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Originally Posted by lig
I'm happy to admit when I am wrong... I'll click the report button ASAP.
Of course if we turn out to be right - Bon Appetit! :v
Of course if we turn out to be right - Bon Appetit! :v
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Originally Posted by lig
One point that is 100% correct in that post is the thing about status in Japan. (I am half-Japanese btw) It makes Japan an incredible market for status luxury goods.
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Some MBs & Bimmers
Originally Posted by KTakayamo
In Japan the wealthy buy Mercedes and BMWs as they are still more status than Toyota or Lexus to you.
~Katasu~
~Katasu~
Welcome onboard.
That comment you made is very true and it applies to many cultures. The MBs and BMWs are associated as status symbols and thus SNOB appeal. I know people; either family or associates of all races; drives European cars just because they want to be seen in one.
As indicated in my previous post, I thoroughly enjoyed driving the new Acura RL (aka Honda Legend) but (unfortunately or fortunately) my MB E500 has greater SNOB appeal.
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2025 AMG CLE53, 2025 Range Rover P550E, 2025 Ford F150 Raptor
I found this neat little entry over at ClubLexus Forums...........funny how the screen name and cars are changed.......
Why are Lexus vehicles so (too??) expensive? (more)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Serious question from an enthusiast and not troll bait. But first, a bit of background.
I've driven Japanese cars exclusively for the last 10 years, including various Infinitis and Acura models and now an LS430. I consider myself a real car nut and will pay for quality and superior driving ability/experience. The only non Japanese cars in the household were two Jeep GCs and now a Kia Sodena, which are remotely intended to compete with the Japanese.
Here is where my question comes from: I have for various reasons recently driven several cars which I normally wouldn't even drive or even look at. I've recently driven a few Subarus, a Honda Accord and even a new Hyundai Sonata, all of which cost 40-60 percent (or more) less than my LS430.
Let me be blunt- I was SHOCKED at how narrow the differences were between the herd and the LS430. Yes, the LS430 ultimately drove better was and a bit smoother,especially with the V8 and to my eyes has a more refined interior, but I could not OBJECTIVELY justify the 50% or more price difference. I just did not see how the improvements were worth 25-35K more. 5-10K, yes. But 30+?? No, at least not when using pure logic w/o emotion. The Subarus (Legacy & Outback) models were especially surprising. With the turbo or 6cyl motors they would spank a GS430 and give an LS430 a real race for the money. Plus, their AWD systems are arguably superior and, get this-- there is a huge pano roof available!! Geez-- even the Hyundai drove pretty good and wasn't horrible to look it. Too bad we're stuck with it as a rental until my wife's car is repaired (long story short: 17 yr old idiot girl plows into wife's 9 month old Sienna XLE Ltd w/ AWD)
So here are my questions:
1)Given the (to me at least) increasingly small differences and diminishing returns, why are Lexus cars apparently overpriced, especially when features that should be standard, like xenons, seat warmers, folding rear seats, etc are options, and stunningly overpriced ones at that?
Is it the super high costs of Lexus labor? Material costs? High prices simply because they can and people buy the badge, like when women pay $1000 for a pocketbook when a $200 Coach is just as good?
2) Am I the only one to see a decreasing difference between higher end Lexus cars and the others? I am still floored over how the Subaru drove and how it was equipped- Nav, seat warmers, dual climate control, full leater, etc
3) Where do we think this will go? Will the improvements in the low-mid market spur Lexus and Infiniti to get that much better or will they rest on the laurels and losr market share?
4) Anything else to be added? Discuss?
Why are Lexus vehicles so (too??) expensive? (more)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Serious question from an enthusiast and not troll bait. But first, a bit of background.
I've driven Japanese cars exclusively for the last 10 years, including various Infinitis and Acura models and now an LS430. I consider myself a real car nut and will pay for quality and superior driving ability/experience. The only non Japanese cars in the household were two Jeep GCs and now a Kia Sodena, which are remotely intended to compete with the Japanese.
Here is where my question comes from: I have for various reasons recently driven several cars which I normally wouldn't even drive or even look at. I've recently driven a few Subarus, a Honda Accord and even a new Hyundai Sonata, all of which cost 40-60 percent (or more) less than my LS430.
Let me be blunt- I was SHOCKED at how narrow the differences were between the herd and the LS430. Yes, the LS430 ultimately drove better was and a bit smoother,especially with the V8 and to my eyes has a more refined interior, but I could not OBJECTIVELY justify the 50% or more price difference. I just did not see how the improvements were worth 25-35K more. 5-10K, yes. But 30+?? No, at least not when using pure logic w/o emotion. The Subarus (Legacy & Outback) models were especially surprising. With the turbo or 6cyl motors they would spank a GS430 and give an LS430 a real race for the money. Plus, their AWD systems are arguably superior and, get this-- there is a huge pano roof available!! Geez-- even the Hyundai drove pretty good and wasn't horrible to look it. Too bad we're stuck with it as a rental until my wife's car is repaired (long story short: 17 yr old idiot girl plows into wife's 9 month old Sienna XLE Ltd w/ AWD)
So here are my questions:
1)Given the (to me at least) increasingly small differences and diminishing returns, why are Lexus cars apparently overpriced, especially when features that should be standard, like xenons, seat warmers, folding rear seats, etc are options, and stunningly overpriced ones at that?
Is it the super high costs of Lexus labor? Material costs? High prices simply because they can and people buy the badge, like when women pay $1000 for a pocketbook when a $200 Coach is just as good?
2) Am I the only one to see a decreasing difference between higher end Lexus cars and the others? I am still floored over how the Subaru drove and how it was equipped- Nav, seat warmers, dual climate control, full leater, etc
3) Where do we think this will go? Will the improvements in the low-mid market spur Lexus and Infiniti to get that much better or will they rest on the laurels and losr market share?
4) Anything else to be added? Discuss?
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From: Naples, FL
2025 AMG CLE53, 2025 Range Rover P550E, 2025 Ford F150 Raptor
Here's the link
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189391
I find this way too coincidental. Troll? You betcha!!!
BUSTED!
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189391
I find this way too coincidental. Troll? You betcha!!!
BUSTED!
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From: THE NAPA VALLEY, CA
Build date 2-04 E500
Originally Posted by PHXATC
Here's the link
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189391
I find this way too coincidental. Troll? You betcha!!!
BUSTED!
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189391
I find this way too coincidental. Troll? You betcha!!!
BUSTED!
LoL................. Owned!!!!!!!!!!!
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Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Southern California
Some MBs & Bimmers
Originally Posted by PHXATC
Here's the link
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189391
I find this way too coincidental. Troll? You betcha!!!
BUSTED!
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189391
I find this way too coincidental. Troll? You betcha!!!
BUSTED!
Look here ...
Originally Posted by PHXATC
....non Japanese cars in the household were two Jeep GCs and now a Kia Sodena, which are remotely intended to compete with the Japanese.
....... my wife's car is repaired (long story short: 17 yr old idiot girl plows into wife's 9 month old Sienna XLE Ltd w/ AWD)
....... my wife's car is repaired (long story short: 17 yr old idiot girl plows into wife's 9 month old Sienna XLE Ltd w/ AWD)
In addition, is it pure coincident that the account that was created within the Lexusforum was done on Nov05 and this JWS2 post was posted on 11/29. The timing is so questionable.
Last edited by GearHead; Dec 1, 2005 at 02:21 AM.
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From: USA
Multiple
Originally Posted by PHXATC
I found this neat little entry over at ClubLexus Forums...........funny how the screen name and cars are changed.......
Please say it isn't so!! My faith in mankind is shattered!
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Very interesting indeed... but frankly no matter if this is an impostor or JWS, which I'm leaning towards an imposter.. the answers to his post are more interesting to me.. I especially love the comparison to a $30 Timex and a 5K Rolex by one member... Except I would have called the Lexus a $1200 Grand Seiko, and the MB A Rolex. :p
I also like all the guys trying to say that "status" is a part of owning Lexus.. since this is part of our argument here, that all the Lexus guys keep pooping..
This thread is truly entertaining lig..
We should see if we can crack the case of the schizoid form troll
I also like all the guys trying to say that "status" is a part of owning Lexus.. since this is part of our argument here, that all the Lexus guys keep pooping..
This thread is truly entertaining lig..
We should see if we can crack the case of the schizoid form troll
Last edited by CE750; Dec 1, 2005 at 09:53 AM.
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From: FL410
'05 E320 CDI, '08 BMW X5 4.8i, '11 Duramax 2500HD
Questions I have for JWS3 are why the 3 in your name? And is there a JWS1 at some other forums?
There is nothing wrong with him trying to engage people in conversation about their cars vs. cheaper alternatives.. I'm curious to see if he's the other guy or not.
There is nothing wrong with him trying to engage people in conversation about their cars vs. cheaper alternatives.. I'm curious to see if he's the other guy or not.
Thread Starter
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2004 E500
Looks like someone here is getting WAY too cute- or sneaky. This "post" is a fake (m)
Originally Posted by PHXATC
I found this neat little entry over at ClubLexus Forums...........funny how the screen name and cars are changed.......
Why are Lexus vehicles so (too??) expensive? (more)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Serious question from an enthusiast and not troll bait. But first, a bit of background.
I've driven Japanese cars exclusively for the last 10 years, including various Infinitis and Acura models and now an LS430. I consider myself a real car nut and will pay for quality and superior driving ability/experience. The only non Japanese cars in the household were two Jeep GCs and now a Kia Sodena, which are remotely intended to compete with the Japanese.
Here is where my question comes from: I have for various reasons recently driven several cars which I normally wouldn't even drive or even look at. I've recently driven a few Subarus, a Honda Accord and even a new Hyundai Sonata, all of which cost 40-60 percent (or more) less than my LS430.
So here are my questions:
1)Given the (to me at least) increasingly small differences and diminishing returns, why are Lexus cars apparently overpriced, especially when features that should be standard, like xenons, seat warmers, folding rear seats, etc are options, and stunningly overpriced ones at that?
Is it the super high costs of Lexus labor? Material costs? High prices simply because they can and people buy the badge, like when women pay $1000 for a pocketbook when a $200 Coach is just as good?
2) Am I the only one to see a decreasing difference between higher end Lexus cars and the others? I am still floored over how the Subaru drove and how it was equipped- Nav, seat warmers, dual climate control, full leater, etc
3) Where do we think this will go? Will the improvements in the low-mid market spur Lexus and Infiniti to get that much better or will they rest on the laurels and losr market share?
4) Anything else to be added? Discuss?
Why are Lexus vehicles so (too??) expensive? (more)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Serious question from an enthusiast and not troll bait. But first, a bit of background.
I've driven Japanese cars exclusively for the last 10 years, including various Infinitis and Acura models and now an LS430. I consider myself a real car nut and will pay for quality and superior driving ability/experience. The only non Japanese cars in the household were two Jeep GCs and now a Kia Sodena, which are remotely intended to compete with the Japanese.
Here is where my question comes from: I have for various reasons recently driven several cars which I normally wouldn't even drive or even look at. I've recently driven a few Subarus, a Honda Accord and even a new Hyundai Sonata, all of which cost 40-60 percent (or more) less than my LS430.
So here are my questions:
1)Given the (to me at least) increasingly small differences and diminishing returns, why are Lexus cars apparently overpriced, especially when features that should be standard, like xenons, seat warmers, folding rear seats, etc are options, and stunningly overpriced ones at that?
Is it the super high costs of Lexus labor? Material costs? High prices simply because they can and people buy the badge, like when women pay $1000 for a pocketbook when a $200 Coach is just as good?
2) Am I the only one to see a decreasing difference between higher end Lexus cars and the others? I am still floored over how the Subaru drove and how it was equipped- Nav, seat warmers, dual climate control, full leater, etc
3) Where do we think this will go? Will the improvements in the low-mid market spur Lexus and Infiniti to get that much better or will they rest on the laurels and losr market share?
4) Anything else to be added? Discuss?
Let me be blunt: Whoever did this is a FRAUD, as it is not me. Looks like someone here is just trying to stir things up by outright lying.
First of all, look at the "JWS2". This person is in "CA" (California). I live on the East coast. I am no computer whiz, but it certainly looks like someone did a cut and paste. I'd be curious to see the IP address and user profile for whoever did it.
Oh-- and for those who care, the "3" is a play on my name & signifies nothing more.
Gotta say, if this is the kind of fraudulent crap some here need to play to male themselves look better then "Get a life".
Last edited by JWS3; Dec 1, 2005 at 03:37 PM.
Thread Starter
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2004 E500
To answer your question, I did not post this on "clublexus" (m)
Originally Posted by CE750
Questions I have for JWS3 are why the 3 in your name? And is there a JWS1 at some other forums?
There is nothing wrong with him trying to engage people in conversation about their cars vs. cheaper alternatives.. I'm curious to see if he's the other guy or not.
There is nothing wrong with him trying to engage people in conversation about their cars vs. cheaper alternatives.. I'm curious to see if he's the other guy or not.
I really would not care if the poster copied my original post to see the Lexus owner reactions. Maybe he/she cannot write and needs help. What I find offensive is the cute play on MY screen name as I do not appreciate having my integrity questioned by some low level drone.
Oh- and as you asked- the "3" is simply a play on my name. Nothing more.
Last edited by JWS3; Dec 1, 2005 at 02:37 PM.
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From: Naples, FL
2025 AMG CLE53, 2025 Range Rover P550E, 2025 Ford F150 Raptor
Get over your bad self dude, it's the internet!
If you get your feelings hurt that easily, you won't last around here too long.
You aren't getting an apology from me as requested through a PM. If you think I called you a liar or fraud, check your facts bucko, as I never said that. The word that I used was "TROLL."
If you want drama, go somewhere else.
If you get your feelings hurt that easily, you won't last around here too long.
You aren't getting an apology from me as requested through a PM. If you think I called you a liar or fraud, check your facts bucko, as I never said that. The word that I used was "TROLL."
If you want drama, go somewhere else.
