By the way Frugal1, I had a 96 tl for 5 years in my younger days. That thing felt like new right up to 165000 miles, and I still sold it for 5 k You can't beat those cars on the value scale!

 

[QUOTE=CE750]It seems to me that during my vacation time, you still can't come up with valid point.

One, a new LS is on its way for 2007. That base 4.6L engine will be more efficient and just as powerful as the new S 5.5 V8. For the 1st time, a hybrid will also be available on the LS (again missing on the S). Since neither car are available right now, to discuss this is mute point.

two, the ES competes with the C-class not the E-class.

The E compete with GS. Which GS has already beat in all comparison tests thus far. Plus GS did not debut new engine just yet due to stupid lexus marketing decision. The GS350 and GS460 are just around the corner.

As far as ES and C goes. Both new version are due within one to two years.

Again another pointless thread.

Toyota's 500HP N/A 5.0L V10 is also around the corner. And should debut within 2 years, which i believe will be more efficient than upcoming AMG 6.3L motor.

In about 10 years, Korean would also be very competitive. In addition, both Japanese and Korean are better than their german counterpart in electronics and quality control. With cars getting more complicated and packed with electronics, german will have a hard time competeting if the trend continues.

The new S is a good 1st step in the right direction. But competition is not standing around. The LS is debuting soon with a much smaller and just as powerful V8, optional hybrid, and possible V10 to compete with AMG/M. Lexus is not stupid.

However, to a lot of ego here, anything that other does well is deemed a myth.

 

Amazing how this thread turned out to be another MB vs Lexus, etc. thread. In my humble opinion however, Rolex does not make the finest timepieces in the world, but they are very durable and the company did in fact pioneer the oyster clamp design. The finest watch maker honor should go to Patek Philippe, Girard Perregaux, Jaeger LeCoultre, or Breguet. Mind you that none of these watches, whether they use a tourbillon design, can top the accuracy of a 99 cents junk you can get with a happy meal .

Kudos to all brand lovers!

 

wrong on this.

The E500 in 1992 was a special build car in limited qty by 3rd party (i believe is porsche). It was designed to sit above all E-class. In other words, it is the equivalent of E55 today. Based on equipment, the real price has only decreased about 18%.

A fair comparison would have been the original 300E, which i believe started at $49k, which is $67k in today's money. The 2005 E320 MSRP base is $49,220. Therefore the cost reduction was around 30%. But there is a catch. Back in 1992 the competition was not as fierce as it was today. The invoice on the 300E was $40k. In other words, from invoice point of view. The 1992 300E invoice at today's money is a mere $53k. The invoice of 2005 E320 (disc. end of 2004) was $46k. In other word, from invoice the actual cost decrease was 13% at max.

No car company will be able to survive a 50% in real cost reduction.

 

[QUOTE=CE750]I would hope the E>ES - it had better be for 20K more. The GS is more directly comparable.

You've made this comparison before and I didn't really understand it...

The ES is a low 30K car...

And the IS350 >>>> any C class except for the C55

 

Bottom line is the car is cheaper today than it was 15-20 years ago... Please inform me of another "family" sedan that has done this.

 

Care to explain why the W210 door opened during the IIHS testing while the GS at that time did not.

Since you proclaim to be a mechanical engineer, so explain away.
(picture is worth a thousand word).
link of W210

BTW, it took MB three years until the W210 mid-life update in 2000 before it fixed the structure problem with the W210.

Again reality is always different than what you blindly believes.

 

Actually if you look at pretty much all car from that ERA the cost reduction is actually between 10% to 15%. This is actually typical for mid-luxury cars.

Family cars has always been for the masses and the real cost reduction is quiet low because the margins are low.

I am simply pointing out that to claim MB has reduced real cost by over 50% is ridiculous and totoally wrong.

Also at $49k sticker for 1992 300E is hardly pricing for a typical american family car at that time.

 

blah, blah.

how about explaining this?



Each accident is under different circumstance. I can make any blind conclusion from any accident if i choose to.

Based on your logic, should we now conclude that W211 is totally unsafe based on this picture?

As an engineer i was taught that conclusion can only be driven when you can statistically prove that results you achieved under identical situation can be proved again and again. Don't know what did your school taught you. But so far from your post the basis of any scientific background is utterly lacking.

To use none controlled situation to derive a conclusion is about as accurate as a blind man's hand writting.

 

You really are a stubborn mule.. How do we know that MB wasn't struck by a 40 ton Semi? For God's sake man.. I showed you a concrete picture of a head on between TWO CARS.. and the outcome..

IIHS rated the W210 as THE TOP CAR FOR SAFETY PERIOD! door open or not... Their tests aren't as valid as real world accident data!! WAKE UP and lay off the doughnuts, too much sugar pal!

 

You talk about being a scientist.. well here you go Einstein...

IIHS REAL WORLD DATA.. deaths per million registration miles..

This factors out any error due to number of cars sold, etc..

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2.../15/sr4003.pdf

 

BTW.. KK, you're so filled with HYPERBOLE !!!

Here is the caption for the pic you posted...


Got it off the damn website..

http://www.wreckedexotics.com/e55/ec...0523_002.shtml

While we're at it... look at these..

http://www.wreckedexotics.com/e55/e5...0619_001.shtml

 

Why are we wasting so much time on a car forum arguing whether another member is a real scientist or not? Let it go already....

 

For the past few months, I had the opportunity to drive the 2005 Acura RL as a test vehicle and I WAS IMPRESSED.

Though it was not as fun as my SLK350 in terms of handling, unfortunately my E500 was no match for the RL.

Therefore, it appears that the other makes (likes of Acura and Lexus ...) are indeed making major inroads in terms of performance and value.

 

I born in Yokohama, Japan, I have seen many Japanese cars that aren't very good. We called Lexus, Toyota Celsior and they are not all of them reliable. Not all our cars are reliable. When growing up, my uncle was a supplier of two of the major car company and so I was able to tour some plants. In the 80s, our cars were good but no where compared to the American and Europes. Toyota tried to copy Mercedes and BMW with thier technology and refine. All company do that but Toyota was major in doing so. Because steel was not very strong in Japan, our cars were very light and not as well crash safe as American and Europes. My toyotas was always a problem when living there. My uncle use to tell me they use less steel in Japanese cars of course its somewhat true but improvement. Our cars also have thin paint compare to american and european which I do not like. Magazine articles are good source but if you believe in everything they say you must be gullible since some are known for vacuum toaster rating (ha).

In Japan the wealthy buy Mercedes and BMWs as they are still more status than Toyota or Lexus to you. When my business grew I move my family to Santa Monica and I bought a BMW 540i. I now have SL500 for my wife, BMW 760LI and thinking buying my daughter a CLS500 when she can drive next year. I recently came back from business in Saudi and UAE and even the Sultan drive Mercedes and BMW. I can not see the Sultan in a Toyota or you call Lexus (ha). I still have a office in Osaka, Japan and still travel there. I think our cars are reliable but so are Europes car. Some here complain about performance. I can take a 1989 CRX and make it faster than a Celsior. Even a Neon SRT is quick than a GS430 and cost $30,000 less so what is the point? I glad I purchase Europes car and good you buy Japanese car. My like is European.

~Katasu~

 

Well stated Katasu! A fresh view from the "inside." I will take your first hand assessment anyday over "magazine articles" which also are known for "vacuum toater rating."

BTW, if your daughter reads this she must be awfully excited looking forward to a new CLS500...:-)

 

1st post...hmmm....this is too funny

 

That's what I was thinking... hmmm... the fake bad english... the old stereotypes of Japanese cars... hmmmm... indeed.

I wish I had an IP tool to see who this might truly be. :p :p

One point that is 100% correct in that post is the thing about status in Japan. (I am half-Japanese btw) It makes Japan an incredible market for status luxury goods.

 

ask the mods to check his IP address if you think he's a fake.

Better yet, Katasu.. why not post a picture or something to prove who you are to these doubting Thomas'

I for one believe he's who he says he is, and agree with much of what he says.

 

Here is MB in Lexus' back yard showing off their hybrid-diesel tech cars.. taking efficiency to a whole new level.

http://www.duemotori.com/news/auto_n...nvironment.php

 

Yea......Right! LOL

 

I would be happy to apologize if I am wrong - so mods - por favor - run an IP check on this account and look for matching IP accounts.

 

I've been to Japan, and they LOVE German products there. Whether Zeiss, MB, Marklin, or A Lange & Sohne... it sells best in Japan.

Remember, they're the 2nd biggest economy in the world behind the US, and Germany is actually #3... even though they are the largest exporter nation in the world.. that should tell you something about the demand for German goods.

 

^^^^ This could be one of the very few times I agree with you 100%

We've never talked about guns. I love German guns. Mostly all HKs.

 

Your responses are getting darker and larger....afraid someone won't read your posts rjm? LLOL