BudC

Obviously, there are people who haven't a clue about what the recalls and SBC campaigns addressed. This has been discussed on this forum ad infinitum but I'll repeat it.

The first incidents were due to worn SBC pumps generally on German taxis that had an ungodly number of brake applications w/o any service of the SBC system.

The first recall was to reprogram the car so that after a certain number of brake applications, the driver would receive a message to take the car in for service so that the SBC pump could be inspected. The number of brake applications were rumored to be around 100,000. The average driver would never see that message.

When the W211's first arrived in the U.S., dealers were unfamiliar with the procedure required to bleed the SBC brake system. They were apparently taking shortcuts and this resulted in the SBC system shutting down shortly after being serviced by a dealer. Once dealers found out how to service the brakes, these incidents stopped.

More recently, it was found that the cable to the SBC controller could work loose and this again resulted in SBC systems shutting down. The most recent recall is to fix this problem.

There were also at least two problems with the W211 resulting in the batteries not being charged to an adequate voltage. One of those had to do with defective alternator voltage regulators and the other was resolved through a programming change. Low voltage resulted in a myriad of problems including false SBC failures.

I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that the SBC system is inherently unsafe.

CE750

Considering that there are over 2,500,000 vehicles sold world wide over the past 4 years with SBC (R230, W211, W219, etc) and many are in intense commercial activity (such as E class cabs), that is pretty damn good for any kind of a brake system!

kbond555

I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that the SBC system is inherently unsafe.[/QUOTE]



I am very interested why you trust all PR actions of DC?
It is absolutely sure that they will never tell the truth.

Why accident got happen after recalls? Maybe countermeasures are not appropriate.... Why problem with safety critical component arise? Why Dc is making changes in SBC without informing customers taht they are planing to do it, they are counting on their luck, that finally you will come to service?

Why they retreat from the system which should be fabulous.

In do not belive that because of costs. The projest cost was more thatn 150.000.000 Euro- so you think that they just suspend it?

Why they will not use system which is one of the best in the world? It is a huge competitive advantage.


In my opinion they DO NOT HAVE THE REAL ROOT CAUSE, AND THEY TRY ONE BY ONE TO EXCHANGE THINGS IN THE SBC- maybe one day it will give satisfactory results.


Why they do this "secret reacalls"? Why in my country they do not inform customer organisation of traffic safety ( something like NHTSA)
"Secret Recalls" also happened In Germany and Austria.


Sorry accident of my boss convinced my that they are not serious. The custmoer care is very very poor. They treat customers as guinea pigs. They are friendly only till you pay money for your car..than nightmare appears...

Best Regards

CE750

Hey Bud, what do you make of that bracket that Dan posted? I don't have it, do you?

CE750

I will agree that the customer service is lacking for a luxury car brand.

BudC

Mine looks the same including the tie that's holding the cable to the SBC controller. It's clear that the cable has been rewrapped after the change was installed.

BudC

I don't trust D-C, I trust my own common sense. Read my post above. What failures have occurred on vehicles that have had those changes implemented?

I don't know what happens in other countries but I admit that MBUSA do stonewall people on fixing problems. Actually, the only company I'm aware of that is actually pro-active on fixing problems is Honda. MBUSA tried to get away with just a *Campaign* approach on the SBC controller cable plug problem but it wasn't long before they made it a safety recall.

I also believe that 99% of Mercedes owners haven't got a clue about how SBC works, what problems have been found and what the recalls entail.

If you look at the things that have been corrected, the only real problem so far has been the SBC cable plug. The voltage problems on W211's not only effect SBC but the transmission and many other things.

I may appear stupid but I'm not. If I had the slightest reason to believe that SBC was dangerous, I would not let my wife drive the car.

CE750

I just talked directly to MBUSA, and they said that the bracket was only on "Certain VIN" cars... the odd thing for me is, why is it that Dan's brand new CLS has it?

This whole thing is odd.

BudC

I think you should find out EXACTLY what is done on the recall. It may be that what's most important is out of sight. I agree though that it's very odd that Dan's car looks more like mine than yours.

Actually, I'd be more concerned about a plug coming loose on a diesel than on a gasoline engine. Even new diesels are going to have more vibration than normal.

konigstiger

As I see it the bracket and associated tie is redundancy to keep the SBC harness connection (and revised ground wiring) free of vibration and possibly disengagement – the intent of the recall.

Sam, have either the PMC or Schumacher shop foreman physically inspect your car and present your comparison photos while doing so. If they refuse, get it in writing!!

JimPurdy

The current SBC "Recall" instructions are shown on StarTek http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/ Based on the instructions, the issue is the length of the ground wires and support for the cable bundle. The instructions show how to replace the ground wires with longer ones. The bracket is added on the back of the SBC unit to be able to support the cable bundle by using a plastic wire tie to keep the cable connector from being pulled.

konigstiger

EXACTLY! The bracket and associated tie is redundancy to keep the SBC harness connection (and revised ground wiring) free of vibration and possibly disengagement.

Just for the mentioning, the actual recall document totals 35 pages.

CE750

This whole thing is troubling, and I'll take the pictures into the dealer and see what they say.. But for both the dealer, MBUSA, and MB in Northern California to all say that the car "doesn't fall under the recall" and for it to be MISSING this bracket which is PRESENT on a 2006 CLS... is all odd to say the least!

CE750

I just copied you and Bud on the email I sent to my SA to reconcile this issue.. lets see what he comes up with.

HELL ONA HARLEY

Personally, I don't trust anyone, even you , a person with a resume of 9 posts all related to this one thread.... Do you own a MB???? or are you being paid by your "boss" to gather info on other related brake malfunctions for his possible class action lawsuit???? If not then I'm very happy you are so concerned for our saftey. As Sam has stated, the number of reported malfunctions is nothing compaired to whats in service. Furthermore, all the reports I've read are reported on the internet (all here) and not a "credible" news source. Yup, thats right!!! I don't believe everything I read on the web, just call me ..... I'm sure there are plenty more conventional braking system failures out there, but hell, they wouldn't be nearly as much fun to report than knocking MB's latest and greatest braking system. I'm sure some of the reports have validity to them but I'm a hard one to convince, especially from faceless words. So I'm with bud, "show me the money".... or should I say the proof. I also have to agree thats it pure "bottom line" profits making the decision for MB to cut SBC or at least part of the system from future cars. Too bad.


I agree, As many know here the e500 is my ol'ladys car and my children ride in it daily. I have complete confidence in the braking system and a will be as bold to say its the best system I've ever had in any car I've owned.

mleskovar

I'm curious why you say that. I respect everyone's opinion on their brakes but what has SBC done for you that the standard ABS/ESP/BA could not have done? How many brake related recalls have you had on all your cars combined not counting this one? Read the posts.....MB is in denial anything is wrong even as they add more recalls. I agree internet chatter is not always credible but do you really think there is a conspiracy to attack the MB image over this problem?

CE750

Are you reading all of the posts here? I posted a link as to what the SBC does that cannot be done with the aforementioned systems.

HELL ONA HARLEY

I've had a few close calls since I have owned this ride and in emergency situations the car responds in an emergency situation better than any car I've owned hands down. The feel or power of the brakes are excellent and response is immediate. My wife and I both drive 1300 ft in elevation down to the valley floor everyday on some of the Napa Valleys twistiest roads and the brakes are flawless... The only other car that comes close was the Volvo V70 glt wagon we drove prior to this car but it literally ate rotors.

I've had one recall done... # 2004050014 "SBC recoding" and the dampner kit also installed (without the flex lines). Furthermore we achieved over 20,000 miles on a set of front brakes and have not replaced rears as of yet (with over 25,000 mi).... I have never seen this longevity from any brake pad in any car that I have owned in the 15 yrs of living on the hillside, period. That alone makes me so happy I just want to ****.

The recalls done to this system to date are mearly precautionary and I have yet to see a recall where MB is accually replacing anything on the braking system. Perhaps I'm mistaking, have you????

Do I think that there is a conspiracy against MB??????? L.O.L.... Thats funny.... Please show me where I state this garb.... and don't put words in my mouth (please). So yes, I love my brakes thus my statement(s).

CE750

Having had a V70 (2.4T) for 4 years, I can attest to it's superior brakes.. and it's need for Rotors (as was the case for my 960, Volvo rotors are disposable).

but the E's brakes are a step above this.. especially with the 4-cup calipers and 13" discs on the E500... Motorweek tested the CDI and raved about the perfect stop, 124' and not a single drift, dive, or any other divergence.

mleskovar

I don't remember anything of consequence that is worth the extra money, weight, noise, or reduced reliability. Rain wipe (OK as long as it wipes a fraction of a second before you use the brakes....what does it do to pad wear and gas mileage? Besides, I live in a desert.), stop and go hold (sorry, too trivial [and I drive busy freeways in CA], and this requires a learning/faith cycle only good for like equiped cars), balanced braking (ESP works in a similar way but only in adverse conditions....I have seen NO data that supports SBC is effective beyond what ESP provides, have you?), individual wheel braking (ESP already does this), what did I miss?

HELL ONA HARLEY

The brakes in the V70 literally sold the car (to me). I was so impressed with the smoothness of its braking system I purchased it immediatly. The down side was the rotors for sure. Soft brakes and soft metals used by Volvo produce excellent stopping power, but exessive wear. I changed the rotors about every 10K to 12K with the brakes, alot were replaced due to warping. At $40.00 a rotor, I agree they were a disposable item, but was costly over time.

At over 25,000 miles on the MB and not one rotor replaced (yet)I couldn't be happier.

HELL ONA HARLEY

mleskovar,
Do you own a MB with a current SBC system???? If so, please update your profile so we know what car your driving and so I'm not thinking your just reading a bunch of **** and coming to conclusions without experiencing the system as a daily driver.

mleskovar

[QUOTE=HELL ONA HARLEY]Do I think that there is a conspiracy against MB??????? L.O.L.... Thats funny.... Please show me where I state this garb.... and don't put words in my mouth (please).QUOTE]
It was a joke, didn't mean to offend. It's just that even in the face of SBC being discontinued after two years people still defend it. Even MB admits it's a mistake. That doesn't mean it doesn't work. But you said nothing to make me feel it is worth it.

HELL ONA HARLEY

[QUOTE=mleskovar]
No offense taken!!!! But you didn't answer my question.... Do you have a daily driver with the SBC???? Also, I would love to read the info where MB admits SBC was a mistake. Can you give me a link, I'm very interested in reading it.... One more thing bro.... Always remember "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". and to add to that quote.... If your not "beholding", then how can you see the "beauty"????

BudC

[QUOTE=mleskovar]If you would pay attention you would know that most of us believe Mercedes are dropping SBC because of cost and liability concerns.

BTW, why are you over here flaming our cars when you should have plenty to say on the C-Class forum about the 2001 W203 which has well over 100 applicable TSB's?