Mercedes-Benz E-Class reliability - how does it truly compare?
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Mercedes-Benz E-Class reliability - how does it truly compare?
In late 2005 I started conducting my own reliability research. I'm reporting absolute stats like "times in the shop" that will make the differences between cars much clearer. Relative ratings obscure too much--how large is the difference between "better than average" and "worse than average"? I’ll also be updating results four times a year, so there will be information on new models sooner.
I haven't started collecting data on the E-Class yet because not enough are signed up.
To encourage participation, panel members will receive full access to the results free of charge.
Details: Vehicle reliability research
Comments, questions, and suggestions welcome.
I haven't started collecting data on the E-Class yet because not enough are signed up.
To encourage participation, panel members will receive full access to the results free of charge.
Details: Vehicle reliability research
Comments, questions, and suggestions welcome.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,254
Likes: 15
From: Louisiana
03 E500 and Corvette
Sign me up. Our E500 03 has been a solid good performing car. Don't understand why one of the mag's that report to consumers rate it so poorly.
We have had only the heater water valve fail in the first 60,000 miles. Only other items are normal service but brakes tend to wear out at 30,000 miles. Have already replaced front and rears, now it is time for fronts again.
We had the trim plate cover on the ashtray and of course the cup holder issues. Wheel alignment for US is different than from Germany so tire wear was noticed and solved with alignment.
Otherwise the little lady drives it to and from church on Sundays, then to the interstate for cross USA drives.
Great solid car
. What's the fuss
. vettdvr
We have had only the heater water valve fail in the first 60,000 miles. Only other items are normal service but brakes tend to wear out at 30,000 miles. Have already replaced front and rears, now it is time for fronts again.
We had the trim plate cover on the ashtray and of course the cup holder issues. Wheel alignment for US is different than from Germany so tire wear was noticed and solved with alignment.
Otherwise the little lady drives it to and from church on Sundays, then to the interstate for cross USA drives.
Great solid car
. What's the fuss . vettdvr
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In late 2005 I started conducting my own reliability research. I'm reporting absolute stats like "times in the shop" that will make the differences between cars much clearer. Relative ratings obscure too much--how large is the difference between "better than average" and "worse than average"? I’ll also be updating results four times a year, so there will be information on new models sooner.
I haven't started collecting data on the E-Class yet because not enough are signed up.
To encourage participation, panel members will receive full access to the results free of charge.
Details: Vehicle reliability research
Comments, questions, and suggestions welcome.
I haven't started collecting data on the E-Class yet because not enough are signed up.
To encourage participation, panel members will receive full access to the results free of charge.
Details: Vehicle reliability research
Comments, questions, and suggestions welcome.
Thread Starter
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Posts: 1,101
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I don't have enough E's singed up yet to collect data on the car using the regular survey.
To complement the regular survey, the site also has a Repair History Survey. With this one there is no minimum sample--results will simply be posted as is--and all past repairs can be reported.
http://www.truedelta.com/repair_hist_survey.php
I'll be posting results for this survey this month or next, just waiting for more responses.
To complement the regular survey, the site also has a Repair History Survey. With this one there is no minimum sample--results will simply be posted as is--and all past repairs can be reported.
http://www.truedelta.com/repair_hist_survey.php
I'll be posting results for this survey this month or next, just waiting for more responses.
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,189
Likes: 242
From: Albuquerque
'10 CL550, '12 GL550
The reliability kerfuffle is stupid.
If you've been installing the same lump of an engine for 50 years, it could possibly be "reliable" but it won't be interesting.
If your car has an engine that gets 0.5 horsepower per cubic inch, it may prove more "reliable" than one that gets 1.0 or greater hp/cu inch, the latter describing most Mercedes engines.
If your car has no electronic features, none will break down.
If your car company seldom tries anything new but instead just copies rather than leads, your car (?) may prove more reliable.
Is your car ever used as a Taxi?
If you can find a car that compares to a Mercedes, then you can compare "reliability."
For sure, BMWs are less "reliable." (Proactively replace your radiator, water pump and thermostat every 60K miles or risk your engine.)
Porsches may be a bit better than Mercedes.
Nothing much else really compares, does it?
If you've been installing the same lump of an engine for 50 years, it could possibly be "reliable" but it won't be interesting.
If your car has an engine that gets 0.5 horsepower per cubic inch, it may prove more "reliable" than one that gets 1.0 or greater hp/cu inch, the latter describing most Mercedes engines.
If your car has no electronic features, none will break down.
If your car company seldom tries anything new but instead just copies rather than leads, your car (?) may prove more reliable.
Is your car ever used as a Taxi?
If you can find a car that compares to a Mercedes, then you can compare "reliability."
For sure, BMWs are less "reliable." (Proactively replace your radiator, water pump and thermostat every 60K miles or risk your engine.)
Porsches may be a bit better than Mercedes.
Nothing much else really compares, does it?
Last edited by lkchris; Feb 5, 2007 at 10:10 PM.
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I don't think the available data are good enough to answer these questions. If I did, I wouldn't be putting so much time and energy into my research.
My top priority is cutting through all of the misperceptions about various brands.
My top priority is cutting through all of the misperceptions about various brands.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,017
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From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
My Daughter drives an '05 Suzuki Forenza. Fully Loaded, it cost me 12 Grand in May of '05. It has never needed any unscheduled service or repairs... Gas & Go.
So on a pure reliability scale it would be # 1, while its a cute, fun car with a good stereo & a lot of power accessories, how can you just make a list of reliable cars that doesn't address the total car? How does it apply in the grand scheme of things?
So on a pure reliability scale it would be # 1, while its a cute, fun car with a good stereo & a lot of power accessories, how can you just make a list of reliable cars that doesn't address the total car? How does it apply in the grand scheme of things?
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Latest results out:
TrueDelta Vehicle Reliability Survey results
I'd like future quarterly updates to include some Benzes.
Note that Consumer Reports' annual auto issue, out soon, includes reliability ratings for the year ending March 31, 2006. Because TrueDelta's surveys are more frequent, and we analyze the data promptly, our results will average over ten months' "fresher" than theirs. When considering a car, do you want to know how reliable it was a year ago, when it was a year younger, or how reliable it has been recently?
TrueDelta Vehicle Reliability Survey results
I'd like future quarterly updates to include some Benzes.
Note that Consumer Reports' annual auto issue, out soon, includes reliability ratings for the year ending March 31, 2006. Because TrueDelta's surveys are more frequent, and we analyze the data promptly, our results will average over ten months' "fresher" than theirs. When considering a car, do you want to know how reliable it was a year ago, when it was a year younger, or how reliable it has been recently?
Thread Starter
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Latest results, with more models, but still no Mercedes:
TrueDelta Vehicle Reliability Survey results
Next update in August.
TrueDelta Vehicle Reliability Survey results
Next update in August.
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 164
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From: San Carlos (SF Peninsula) CA
'03 ML500, '07 E350 Sport (wife's)
Had our E350 since February and just last week brought it to the dealer for the first inspection/service at about 2200 mi. Only problem we've experienced is the tweeter housing on driver's door popped loose. Other than that, it has been flawles and we are VERY particular. Best car either of us have owned.
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Posts: 2,677
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From: California
i535
In late 2005 I started conducting my own reliability research. I'm reporting absolute stats like "times in the shop" that will make the differences between cars much clearer. Relative ratings obscure too much--how large is the difference between "better than average" and "worse than average"? I’ll also be updating results four times a year, so there will be information on new models sooner.
I haven't started collecting data on the E-Class yet because not enough are signed up.
To encourage participation, panel members will receive full access to the results free of charge.
Details: Vehicle reliability research
Comments, questions, and suggestions welcome.
I haven't started collecting data on the E-Class yet because not enough are signed up.
To encourage participation, panel members will receive full access to the results free of charge.
Details: Vehicle reliability research
Comments, questions, and suggestions welcome.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 343
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From: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl
‘08 E-350 Sport, C6 Vette & Harley Davidson
When I was trying to decide on a Lexus 460 or an E350, the Lexus salesman
was quick to show me their “readily accessible” reliability chart .. which, of
course, shows MB at the bottom.
From what I've been able to interpret, it looks to me like the 07’s reliability
has improved over the 06’s. Would that be correct? And, if so, have any of
the “testing companies” reflected this?
jimm
==========
On Order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps
was quick to show me their “readily accessible” reliability chart .. which, of
course, shows MB at the bottom.
From what I've been able to interpret, it looks to me like the 07’s reliability
has improved over the 06’s. Would that be correct? And, if so, have any of
the “testing companies” reflected this?
jimm
==========
On Order: 08 E350 Sport, P2, Black/black,
Parktronic, Voice, Bluetooth, Burl Walnut,
Split rear seat, Rear mud flaps
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 9
From: Vancouver, BC
2015 E250 BT 4M
Lexus reliability ?
You might also want to take along a copy of a recent article in AutoWeek by Wes Raynal (11/08/06),
"Green-car Smackdown : How do you want your high mpg, diesel or gas-electric?".
In this article, the author comments on the Lexus GS450h :
"I've been looking forward to driving this car since it was announced. It proved a letdown. First off, our particular car had felt seriously beat up. I don't know how else to explain (or excuse ?) the floppy chassis, squeaks and rattles inside, wipers that didn't seat properly or the loose or falling-off trim pieces except to point at the 8000 hard-earned press fleet miles on the clock. From Lexus I expect craftsmanship beyond the Germans, a rock-solid chassis and out of this world attention to detail. This particular car didn't deliver.
It takes a bit to get used to the CVT's tendency to constantly hunt for the appropriate gear ratio, as well as the car's near-complete lack of steering feel. The GS450h rode rough over broken pavement, another un-Lexus trait.
Like I said, I was disappointed in the Lexus. The diesel Benz was cheaper, a better driving experience, and got better miles per gallon. Seems like an easy decision."
So much for Lexus reliability !!!!
Thread Starter
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Posts: 1,101
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When I was trying to decide on a Lexus 460 or an E350, the Lexus salesman
was quick to show me their “readily accessible” reliability chart .. which, of
course, shows MB at the bottom.
From what I've been able to interpret, it looks to me like the 07’s reliability
has improved over the 06’s. Would that be correct? And, if so, have any of
the “testing companies” reflected this?
jimm
was quick to show me their “readily accessible” reliability chart .. which, of
course, shows MB at the bottom.
From what I've been able to interpret, it looks to me like the 07’s reliability
has improved over the 06’s. Would that be correct? And, if so, have any of
the “testing companies” reflected this?
jimm
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,101
Likes: 9
That said, I'd love to hear more about your dealer-based research. Is it written up anywhere?
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,017
Likes: 16
From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
Go to the MB Service department On a Monday around 3 PM & ask the service advisor how many E class cars are in the shop. There are virtually no '07s, a couple of '06s, some '05s, & a bunch of '03s & '04s. Ask how many of each have been there for a few days or more.
He will be most proud to tell you that there are virtually no '07s in the shop for anything other than a Lube Oil & Filter.
Hit a couple of dealers & do the same thing. (I did). Tell them you have an '08 on order & you want to see how well they have fixed the 211's problems. I t really appears to me that they have finally fixed the W211 E Class.
He will be most proud to tell you that there are virtually no '07s in the shop for anything other than a Lube Oil & Filter.
Hit a couple of dealers & do the same thing. (I did). Tell them you have an '08 on order & you want to see how well they have fixed the 211's problems. I t really appears to me that they have finally fixed the W211 E Class.
Last edited by Barry45RPM; May 28, 2007 at 01:20 AM.
Thread Starter
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I'd love to be able to confirm/disconfirm this. Just need more owners to participate.
Looking in CR, they don't show any improvement through 2006, but the problem rate necessary for a black dot is much lower than many people realize. Their rating for the 2007 will be out in November.
Looking in CR, they don't show any improvement through 2006, but the problem rate necessary for a black dot is much lower than many people realize. Their rating for the 2007 will be out in November.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 4
From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
The reliability kerfuffle is stupid.
If you've been installing the same lump of an engine for 50 years, it could possibly be "reliable" but it won't be interesting.
If your car has an engine that gets 0.5 horsepower per cubic inch, it may prove more "reliable" than one that gets 1.0 or greater hp/cu inch, the latter describing most Mercedes engines.
If your car has no electronic features, none will break down.
If your car company seldom tries anything new but instead just copies rather than leads, your car (?) may prove more reliable.
Is your car ever used as a Taxi?
If you can find a car that compares to a Mercedes, then you can compare "reliability."
For sure, BMWs are less "reliable." (Proactively replace your radiator, water pump and thermostat every 60K miles or risk your engine.)
Porsches may be a bit better than Mercedes.
Nothing much else really compares, does it?
If you've been installing the same lump of an engine for 50 years, it could possibly be "reliable" but it won't be interesting.
If your car has an engine that gets 0.5 horsepower per cubic inch, it may prove more "reliable" than one that gets 1.0 or greater hp/cu inch, the latter describing most Mercedes engines.
If your car has no electronic features, none will break down.
If your car company seldom tries anything new but instead just copies rather than leads, your car (?) may prove more reliable.
Is your car ever used as a Taxi?
If you can find a car that compares to a Mercedes, then you can compare "reliability."
For sure, BMWs are less "reliable." (Proactively replace your radiator, water pump and thermostat every 60K miles or risk your engine.)
Porsches may be a bit better than Mercedes.
Nothing much else really compares, does it?
Porsche and MB are not the most reliable cars. I drove or owned several of both. They are exciting.
The problem with MB in the 1990s is that they tried to catch up with Lexus in electronics and we all know who is the better manufacturer in this field. Warning lights were pesky to the extreme. ESP, check brakes, check engine lights take turn to light up and you do not know if it is just another MB thing or the brakes are going to fail.
My CD player went down many times too and they replaced it after 6 times in the dealership.
The engine and bodywork are superior to the Japanese.
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,017
Likes: 16
From: Ft. Lauderdale Area, USA
2015 ML 350
Who says we should be satisfied with either dependability OR "The MB Driving Experience".
...and don't toss MB in with Porsche. Porshe is the most tested automobile prior to a model being released to the public. MB's meteoric slide in quality/satisfaction from # 1 down to dead last is unprecedented in automotive history. It took Caddy years of neglect and underestimating the American public by GM to go down the toilet, with MB it happened in the blink of an eye, and, while they knew they had a huge quality/dependability/frequency of repair problem, they did nothing to fix it for much too long.
Excellent bodywork and engines are the hallmark of late 20th Century Automobiles. We are almost 8 years into the 21st Century. The standard has changed. There is nothing fun about driving an Iconic brand of car if it tortures you. You don't have to be a Genius to see it and feel it when the "Emperor has no clothes". Its a good thing for MB that they woke up almost in time...
Last edited by Barry45RPM; May 29, 2007 at 10:55 AM.
Thread Starter
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Every Toyota and Lexus is not absolutely reliable. The six-speed automatics in the V6 Camry and Lexus ES have had issues. Toyota will likely sort them out quickly, but the early cars' transmissions can be troublesome, and quite a few have been replaced.
It might be an isolated case, but one of my panel members had a 2007 ES 350 bought back. In the first 7,000 miles it needed a new transmission, two new nav units, a new strut (original one leaking), and an engine oil seal replacement (which required that the engine be pulled).
To give another example, the camshafts have snapped in about 20 of Toyota's Tundra pickups with the new 5.7-liter V8--story in Automotive News this week. They say only early units were affected, but again not absolutely reliable.
The goal of my research is to provide some perspective by making the size of the differences between cars clearer. It's just not a black-and-white issue of bulletproof vs. in the shop "all the time."
It might be an isolated case, but one of my panel members had a 2007 ES 350 bought back. In the first 7,000 miles it needed a new transmission, two new nav units, a new strut (original one leaking), and an engine oil seal replacement (which required that the engine be pulled).
To give another example, the camshafts have snapped in about 20 of Toyota's Tundra pickups with the new 5.7-liter V8--story in Automotive News this week. They say only early units were affected, but again not absolutely reliable.
The goal of my research is to provide some perspective by making the size of the differences between cars clearer. It's just not a black-and-white issue of bulletproof vs. in the shop "all the time."
