The dreaded M272 Balance Shaft
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
w211, W201
I was getting code P0025, few months ago fixed just change the solenoid... but few days it came back, P0025, and after change the solenoid( again) no appear P0020 Could be the Hall position sensor? or My engine it have the issue?
WDB2110561B171180
I am very worried...
Thanks!
WDB2110561B171180
I am very worried...
Thanks!
Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
Likes: 8
From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
I was getting code P0025, few months ago fixed just change the solenoid... but few days it came back, P0025, and after change the solenoid( again) no appear P0020 Could be the Hall position sensor? or My engine it have the issue?
WDB2110561B171180
I am very worried...
Thanks!
WDB2110561B171180
I am very worried...
Thanks!
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 314
Likes: 29
From: Coastal Georgia, USA
2007 E350 Sedan
I was getting code P0025, few months ago fixed just change the solenoid... but few days it came back, P0025, and after change the solenoid( again) no appear P0020 Could be the Hall position sensor? or My engine it have the issue?
WDB2110561B171180
I am very worried...
Thanks!
WDB2110561B171180
I am very worried...
Thanks!
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
w211, W201
Thanks to everybody! Before I bought it at second hand, 3 years ago, I check the VIN code... and I believe it not have that kind of problems... but now with the P002x errors I start to be very worried... and now with the P0020 it is hard to find info about that error on M272... I thought it could be Hall sensor, but error sensor code ends at P0019... 
( In some places I read that in one C class that kind of problems was by the alternator... I will try... or perhaps any other sensor like detonation of sparks? or temperature ? I have Wiss and Anra installed at home, but I cant look for DTC codes... It is any way to check it? Perhaps it is time to update my OBD2 adapter... ¿Any recommend of good OBD2 adapter with bluetooth to use with android for Mercedes Cars?
thanks!
( In some places I read that in one C class that kind of problems was by the alternator... I will try... or perhaps any other sensor like detonation of sparks? or temperature ? I have Wiss and Anra installed at home, but I cant look for DTC codes... It is any way to check it? Perhaps it is time to update my OBD2 adapter... ¿Any recommend of good OBD2 adapter with bluetooth to use with android for Mercedes Cars?thanks!
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
ML350
I have a 2007 ML350. Purchased it just passed the extended warranty expired. Ended up getting the codes popped up. Now i'm stuck doing the work myself. (the dealers nor MB USA will not lift a finger to help)
I'm at the point of removing the shaft but, realized i should change the chain as well.
Can't seem to get the Guide Rail Pins out.
anyone out there know how much force is needed to "slide-hammer" them out?
thanks,
I'm at the point of removing the shaft but, realized i should change the chain as well.
Can't seem to get the Guide Rail Pins out.
anyone out there know how much force is needed to "slide-hammer" them out?
thanks,
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,511
Likes: 267
From: Chicago
2025 AMG E 53; 2018 GLC300 4Matic; 2003 360 Modena
I recommend using a bolt insert against a plate that pulls the rail guide pin out rather than a slide hammer. Kits are cheap- but you can fabricate it with pieces from a hardware store for a few bucks.
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Newbie
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
2006 c280 4matic m272
206 c280 4matic engine swap
Can anyone here shed some light on an engine swap? I have a 2006 C280 4matic with the dreaded m272 balance shaft issue. The car has 83k on it...still runs ok but is getting noisy and cam codes stay on. Will a 3.0 engine from a 2009 C300 work in my car. They are plentiful in my area and reasonably cheap. They appear to be identical, but I'm hoping someone here with more knowledge than me can help.
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Steve Prescott
2006 C280 w203 4 matic
2003 w163 ML350
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Steve Prescott
2006 C280 w203 4 matic
2003 w163 ML350
Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
Likes: 8
From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
Likes: 8
From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 909
Likes: 64
2007 cls550
I just did this idler gear / sprocket replacement on a 07 CLS550. A couple of points.
- Engine doesn’t have to come out on a V8 but you would be crazy not to. I was. You end up having to disconnect everything except 4 bolts and you will probably spend 20 extra hours if not.
- Engine has to be pulled in a V6. You have to get to the back of the engine.
- The V8 gear and the V6 balance shaft have teeth The are not hardened. The chain eats the teeth. These 10% affected claims are nonsense. Good luck proving that unless there is a hidden document that alternate suppliers provided hardened gears.
- The rear camshaft plugs leak and are a cheap and easy fix.
- The front camshaft sensor O rings can leak and are an easy replacement.
- The front camshaft adjusters leak/break and are a cheap and relatively easy fix. One is a bit of a pain because the oil housing has to come off but no big deal.
- The vacuum operated lever on front of intake manifold can break and is an easy fix if the manifold is off.
That’s everything I can think of right now.
- Engine doesn’t have to come out on a V8 but you would be crazy not to. I was. You end up having to disconnect everything except 4 bolts and you will probably spend 20 extra hours if not.
- Engine has to be pulled in a V6. You have to get to the back of the engine.
- The V8 gear and the V6 balance shaft have teeth The are not hardened. The chain eats the teeth. These 10% affected claims are nonsense. Good luck proving that unless there is a hidden document that alternate suppliers provided hardened gears.
- The rear camshaft plugs leak and are a cheap and easy fix.
- The front camshaft sensor O rings can leak and are an easy replacement.
- The front camshaft adjusters leak/break and are a cheap and relatively easy fix. One is a bit of a pain because the oil housing has to come off but no big deal.
- The vacuum operated lever on front of intake manifold can break and is an easy fix if the manifold is off.
That’s everything I can think of right now.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
E350
How can I know if 2006 E350 balance shaft was fixed by PO?
How can I know if the previous owner(s) had the balance shaft issue fixed? The car has been repossessed by a bank so I don't have any access to the previous owner or service records. It currently has error codes of P0016 and P0017. Mileage almost 200,000. Starts easily and idles smooth. Thanks so much.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 314
Likes: 29
From: Coastal Georgia, USA
2007 E350 Sedan
If the repair has been done, it should not show the codes, as surely the repair mechanic would have cleared them. Those codes indicate possible balance shaft issues.
There is a YouTube video here that shows how to check visually. However, the fact that the codes show is a real issue. The cost of repair on the balance shaft is high-maybe the former owner just decided to let it go back to the bank?
There is a YouTube video here that shows how to check visually. However, the fact that the codes show is a real issue. The cost of repair on the balance shaft is high-maybe the former owner just decided to let it go back to the bank?
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 314
Likes: 29
From: Coastal Georgia, USA
2007 E350 Sedan
Try to disregard the techno-music!
This won't really say that the repair has been done, but it should indicate whether there is a balance shaft problem. The teeth on the defective balance shaft sprocket get worn, and that throws off the positioning of the timing chain, as I understand it, thus throwing the code.
The cost of the repair is usually over $5000. That often essentially totals the car. I had to have the repair on my 2007 E350. My wife has a 2006 E350, but relatively low miles, so no issue has popped up yet. Keeping fingers crossed. We are seeing more and more of these at higher mileage.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 1,550
From: MA
2008 E350 4Matic, 2011 E350 4matic
The parts aren't that expensive a little over $400, but you have to remove the engine in order to replace it so a lot of it is just labor. There are reports of indy shops doing it for around 3k but there are also reports of indy shops doing it and then it doesn't quite run right afterwards. If the mileage is high, I'd also think about replacing the intake manifold too as those are known to go.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...des-2720300613
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...des-2720300613
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 314
Likes: 29
From: Coastal Georgia, USA
2007 E350 Sedan
The parts aren't that expensive a little over $400, but you have to remove the engine in order to replace it so a lot of it is just labor. There are reports of indy shops doing it for around 3k but there are also reports of indy shops doing it and then it doesn't quite run right afterwards. If the mileage is high, I'd also think about replacing the intake manifold too as those are known to go.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...des-2720300613
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mer...des-2720300613
I don't know what the purchase price being asked is, but if the balance shaft needs replacing, there may not be a lot of value there on a 2006. Be really careful.
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
ML320
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=XXQArmxXsnM
Try to disregard the techno-music!
This won't really say that the repair has been done, but it should indicate whether there is a balance shaft problem. The teeth on the defective balance shaft sprocket get worn, and that throws off the positioning of the timing chain, as I understand it, thus throwing the code.
The cost of the repair is usually over $5000. That often essentially totals the car. I had to have the repair on my 2007 E350. My wife has a 2006 E350, but relatively low miles, so no issue has popped up yet. Keeping fingers crossed. We are seeing more and more of these at higher mileage.
Try to disregard the techno-music!
This won't really say that the repair has been done, but it should indicate whether there is a balance shaft problem. The teeth on the defective balance shaft sprocket get worn, and that throws off the positioning of the timing chain, as I understand it, thus throwing the code.
The cost of the repair is usually over $5000. That often essentially totals the car. I had to have the repair on my 2007 E350. My wife has a 2006 E350, but relatively low miles, so no issue has popped up yet. Keeping fingers crossed. We are seeing more and more of these at higher mileage.
Thanks for the video. Is there anything that I can look for to tell if it has been worked on before?
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 909
Likes: 64
2007 cls550
The front camshaft covers might have black RTV oozing out depending on how careful they were. Then again the factory wasn’t perfect.
I guess you could remove the chain adjuster and see if it is the old or new style but that is $100 wasted and doesn’t prove anything.
I wonder if the markings on the cam gear covers changed over the years? This would be viewable through the holes after removing the cam sensors. Again doesn’t prove the balance shaft was replaced but still.
The inspection scope is the only way.
I guess you could remove the chain adjuster and see if it is the old or new style but that is $100 wasted and doesn’t prove anything.
I wonder if the markings on the cam gear covers changed over the years? This would be viewable through the holes after removing the cam sensors. Again doesn’t prove the balance shaft was replaced but still.
The inspection scope is the only way.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 314
Likes: 29
From: Coastal Georgia, USA
2007 E350 Sedan
The balance shaft repair requires removal of the engine. The repair parts are not that much, but the labor cost is huge.
It is possible, although not likely, that the codes never got cleared. If they are cleared and the problem is still there, they should come back, although that may take some time. The fact that the codes are still there makes me think that the repair has never been done.
This may not be the car for you, unless the bank is willing to pay for the repair. Some people have been replacing the engine with a newer one (past the effected range of the balance shaft matter), as that may actually be cheaper than the repair.
This is an issue that anyone looking at this car will face. It is not at all unreasonable to tell the bank about it and ask what it will do. Someone is going to have to fix the problem, or prove to your satisfaction that there isn't one. You should not bear the risk, nor should you bear the expense.
We heard that only something like 25% of the affected cars would end up with the problem, although no one really knows for sure. Over time, and with higher mileage, we are seeing more of this popping up beyond the mileage range we would have expected (65K to maybe 100K). Like some others here, I am beginning to wonder if all of the cars in the affected range will ultimately have the issue arise.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 909
Likes: 64
2007 cls550
The only way that this problem affects a percent of the cars such as 10-25% is if the parts were correctly sourced as hardened and the supplier(s) supplied both hardened and not.
In theory I guess that could be true but it is more realistic that it was sourced incorrectly and changed to hardened parts after the problem was found.
In theory I guess that could be true but it is more realistic that it was sourced incorrectly and changed to hardened parts after the problem was found.
Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 163
Likes: 8
From: Temecula, Ca.
06 E350
Been though this on my 06 E350 at 44700 miles, MB covered 15% total out of my pocket $5400. No indy would touch the job.
https://www.mycarfax.com/garage
WELL doesn't tell you much, here is the details from my balance shaft repair.
Mercedes - Benz of TemeculaServices Performed
- Vehicle serviced
Last edited by Shack1; Jul 17, 2018 at 05:40 PM.
