ps2cho

I just got done replacing my lower control arms because the bushings were cracked. Also the ball joints and upper control arms.

I took it to the shop to get aligned this morning and the shop just called me...they told me -1.5deg camber driver and -2.5 passenger. (I used a level gauge and that's what I read too, but I thought it may have been just my gauge or garage floor etc).

He said that something must be bent somewhere. He is setting the toe up so its driveable, but obviously something is wrong on that side.
Any ideas what to do or where to look? Never ran into this before...

Plutoe

Are you saying he can't get both sides equally negative!!

Or get off your duff and google negative camber!!

ps2cho

Of course he cant get both sides equal because its not adjustable. I already have the camber bolts installed correctly in attempt to bring it in closer, but it didn't work and its still -2.5deg on that side.

I have "googled" on the subject. I want to know if there are any particular items to check specific to the W211 that could be bent.

I need advice here. The car shows no signs of any accidents. Original paint, bumpers, fenders etc.

ps2cho

Here is the alignment sheet from the shop



Any hints on here?

Plutoe

Although we do not do alignments, I also find it hard to believe that you could bend cast parts---in any event we always follow the MB repair docs and in this case it is AR4020P0263T--adjusting camber and caster at front axle.

That doc and many sub docs are available at Startek WIS---I think the 24 hour subscription is 18 bucks---it may well be worth your time!!

ps2cho

I already have that and the mb dvd along with the specific document you mentioned. I don't think you read the thread otherwise you would understand it's beyond adjustment and that is why I am asking for advice on direction. My personal preference is not to throw money at something without input and a logical process.

samaritrey

I assume stock suspension with no broken springs shocks ect....
Which car do you have?

cmriv

You need a NEW bolt kit for the f/l and f/r. that is in fact the only way you can fix that negative camber. Not to question your mechanical capabilities, but from my experience it looks like you dont have your bolts installed correctly. Are your bushings notched or are your bolts notched?

ps2cho

I have a 2008 E350 4matic Sport and I have the bolt kit installed correctly per the factory manual, but for purpose of this thread...Rearward camber bolt installed with the washer mounted so the bolt is closest to the chassis.

The bolt kit allows for 0.4deg +-...I am -1.0deg out. Somethings bent. This isn't an adjustment issue as I have already mentioned

bbirdwell

It is possible the lower control arms that you installed just happen to be at the opposite extremes of the manufacturing tolerance. One is at the maximum positive length and the other at the minimum negative length (optimal length set at zero variation). I've experienced this before and it played havoc with my alignments.


You can trade caster for camber. I.e. change caster by 0.3 degrees and the camber will move 0.3 degrees in the opposite direction (e.g. less caster gives you more negative camber, more caster gives you more positive camber).

In your case, I agree the camber is really off. The right-side caster is "good enough for government work" compared to the left side but the right side lower control arm needs to be pulled in somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 mm (or the upper control arm needs to be pushed out ~1mm). At this point, I'd be tempted to say cut your losses, purchase and install a K-Mac bushing kit in the front lower control arms, and correct the camber.

Afterthought: have you checked to see if the right front is marginally lower than the left front? A sagging suspension on one side will increase negative camber but not greatly affect caster. Measure from the fender roll to the center of the hub or to the ground. Perhaps raise the front right a bit? A few millimeters will translate to several tenths of a degree of camber. I believe (but I haven't tried it) you can connect the car to a diagnostic system and individually adjust the front suspension height. (Assuming Airmatic Suspension)

Keep trying and please post your solution.

cmriv

Are these aftermarket parts?

ps2cho

Genuine MB parts.
4Matic uses a different lower control arm so no aftermarket available.

I will measure the ride height each side and check that!

K-Mac

THERE IS ONLY TOE ADJUSTMENT OEM. SO YES – AT K-MAC WE SAW THE NEED AND MANUFACTURE FOR THE 4MATIC (AND VIRTUALLY EVERY OTHER MODEL 1968 TO 2015) FRONT LOWER CONTROL ARM INNER CAMBER BUSHINGS ALONG WITH SIMILAR THRUST ARM TO CHASSIS CASTER BUSHINGS.


THE UNIQUE K-MAC patented design provides up to 3 times the adjustment range of the inaccurate (one only position) offset fluted bolts.


It means you can now have precise, single wrench ongoing adjustment capability. On car – no labour intensive disassembly each time – accurately (under load) direct on alignment rack.


Allowing to return to factory specs after curb knock damage, altering height, load carrying, fitting wide profile tires/wheels or if wanting to alter/adjust alignment specs for track days!


Fixing it right the 1st time. Resolving steering pull, costly premature edge tire wear. No more ongoing visits to dealers or alignment shops because of not being able to obtain precise adjustment.


Front K-MAC P/N (W211 4matic) 502416 $480.


For the rear (also only Toe adjustment OEM) similar lower control arm bushings for precise Camber adjustment, along with additional Toe adjustment to compensate for this new Camber facility.


Rear K-MAC P/N (W211) 502526 $480.


Added bonus is the 4 front and 4 rear bushes replace the highest wearing suspension bushings with twice the load bearing area and improve brake and steering response.


All kits come with bush extraction/insertion tubes.


This month’s special delivery price for MB World members USA/Canada - $30 one kit or $40 front and rear. Payment can be made by Visa, MasterCard or PayPal.


See link for out latest 2015 catalog http://K-mac.com/mercedes/

ps2cho

I'd prefer to fix the underlying issue, but I will definitely consider it.
For reference though, does the kit include what looks like the pressing tool to get the old bushings out and k-mac ones in? Or is that additional?

K-Mac

Diagram below sets out the ease of adjustment.

Also forum member HeissRod https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/518431-k-mac-bushing-install-guide-w211-airmatic.html has kindly provided step by step pictures re use of the pressing tools included re removal and replacement of the front bushes.

For the rear the actual bushes are not in arms but frame so this bush extraction tool supplied is designed so rear can be installed on car.

See link for our latest 2015 catalog http://K-mac.com/mercedes/

beejAMG

reminds me of a problem I had with my old W124 decades ago. wheel shop couldnt figure out what was wrong with it, front left (if I remember it right) has a negative camber they cant fix. turns out lower control arm was bent. can hardly tell the difference between the bent and the straight but fixed the problem after we replaced it.