2012 E-Class changes - No Airmatic
06-27-2011, 09:54 AM
#202
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2011 E550 4Matic, 2002 M3 Vert
Originally Posted by park423 View Post
The W212 E550 is thousands cheaper than the W211, by how much I forgot. Seems like MB is just taking back what they were giving away for free while upgrading the engine and transmission.
The W212 E550 is thousands cheaper than the W211, by how much I forgot. Seems like MB is just taking back what they were giving away for free while upgrading the engine and transmission.
Over the weekend I messed around with a 2012 CLS for a solid 30 minutes and after getting back in my 2009 E550, I really didn't feel like I was going down a major step in luxury, feel or ambiance. Glad too because I really don't need to be spending 70k on a new car right now!
06-27-2011, 05:30 PM
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MB saved way more than thousands per vehicle by basing the W212 off of the C class platform. Also, the W212 uses a much simpler and less expensive 3 link, strut based front suspension now. These two changes alone would more than account for the lower price point MB can offer the E at now.
06-27-2011, 06:52 PM
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MB saved way more than thousands per vehicle by basing the W212 off of the C class platform. Also, the W212 uses a much simpler and less expensive 3 link, strut based front suspension now. These two changes alone would more than account for the lower price point MB can offer the E at now.
Ford knew this too when they owned Aston Martin and Volvo
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/31/d...o-logo-on-key/
06-27-2011, 07:00 PM
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MB saved way more than thousands per vehicle by basing the W212 off of the C class platform. Also, the W212 uses a much simpler and less expensive 3 link, strut based front suspension now. These two changes alone would more than account for the lower price point MB can offer the E at now.
06-28-2011, 04:29 PM
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2012 C250 Sport
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ive/index.html
06-28-2011, 04:58 PM
#213
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Actually, the E-classes (sedan included) *are* sort of based on the C-class platform. At least, according to Motor Trend it is (last paragraph):
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ive/index.html
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ive/index.html
06-28-2011, 06:27 PM
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s600
The wheelbase on the E is 113 inches, the c & the e coupe are 108, and so on for other dimensions. The motor trend article is misleading (probably referring to the coupe being "marqued" as an E)- and contradicted by so many other sources. I reiterate - the coupe is built on a C platform. The sedan is not. That is not to say that the e doesn't share many parts and engineering with other classes. The cls - costing much more - is built on an e platform for example. This is NOT to knock the C's. I drove one before I traded a cls on the E, and I was impressed! I would bet that there are at least a dozen guys that are looking into this right now, so we will hear more soon.
Last edited by lfranklin; 06-28-2011 at 06:51 PM.
06-28-2011, 11:27 PM
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Well, it's a mixed story.
The E-Coupe literally IS ON TOP OF a C-Class, and is basically a 2 door/Coupe C-Class with some E aspects and design traits to glam it up.
The W212 was a "test" for M-B, who have been watching competitors make tons of $$$$ by whoring chassis' out for their entire car line (BMW), while M-B spends billions in carefully manufacturing all new chassis for all new cars. I like the way M-B used to do it, as I'm an enthusiast and a purist who romanticizes cars, so I don't care for the bean counter way (also, thank hideous cars like the 5 GT and X6 to chassis-sharing, as BMW would have never taken a chance on them, were they to have to spend all the R&D money in developing them from the ground up), but it's the way it's gotta be nowadays.
The "test" was that M-B honchos wanted to have proof that chassis sharing would work for them, in order to green light it for future use fully (and save billions and billions), which it has, and which they will.
The E (and the CLS, if you want to go further) both started with the C Chassis, and were further developed and modified to support and work with, and benefit/befit the E-Class. It's not an identical chassis at all, but it is very much shared, and modified. Also, the suspensions, and many other underpinnings are partially shared, and this also goes for the $80K CLS-Class, upcoming S-Class, etc. M-B will be part whoring a ton more, like BMW, who practically sell 1-3 cars, with a different size and shell on top of it.
Fortunately, the C-Class chassis is not engineered to a price point (however, its comfort and luxury aspect in ride are, but the core underneath it is not), and is a brilliant chassis, which feels confident and nearly indestructible, and can walk the line between sport and luxury.
The E-Coupe literally IS ON TOP OF a C-Class, and is basically a 2 door/Coupe C-Class with some E aspects and design traits to glam it up.
The W212 was a "test" for M-B, who have been watching competitors make tons of $$$$ by whoring chassis' out for their entire car line (BMW), while M-B spends billions in carefully manufacturing all new chassis for all new cars. I like the way M-B used to do it, as I'm an enthusiast and a purist who romanticizes cars, so I don't care for the bean counter way (also, thank hideous cars like the 5 GT and X6 to chassis-sharing, as BMW would have never taken a chance on them, were they to have to spend all the R&D money in developing them from the ground up), but it's the way it's gotta be nowadays.
The "test" was that M-B honchos wanted to have proof that chassis sharing would work for them, in order to green light it for future use fully (and save billions and billions), which it has, and which they will.
The E (and the CLS, if you want to go further) both started with the C Chassis, and were further developed and modified to support and work with, and benefit/befit the E-Class. It's not an identical chassis at all, but it is very much shared, and modified. Also, the suspensions, and many other underpinnings are partially shared, and this also goes for the $80K CLS-Class, upcoming S-Class, etc. M-B will be part whoring a ton more, like BMW, who practically sell 1-3 cars, with a different size and shell on top of it.
Fortunately, the C-Class chassis is not engineered to a price point (however, its comfort and luxury aspect in ride are, but the core underneath it is not), and is a brilliant chassis, which feels confident and nearly indestructible, and can walk the line between sport and luxury.
Last edited by K-A; 06-28-2011 at 11:31 PM.
06-29-2011, 01:32 AM
#216
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Actually, the E-classes (sedan included) *are* sort of based on the C-class platform. At least, according to Motor Trend it is (last paragraph):
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ive/index.html
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ive/index.html
C-Class sedan and E-Class sedan are completely 2 different animals. Obviously, someone can say that both of them have steering wheel and 4 wheels - so somehow it's a same thing!
Coupe is different. If you remember E Coupe appeared to be a substitution of CLK-Class, which had C-Class chassis. But now MB is coming out with C-Class coupe, which has the same chassis as E-Class coupe! What happened to German logical thinking? This will be really confusing... not only for Motor Trend...
06-29-2011, 02:59 PM
#217
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2012 S350 Bluetec 4Matic, Diamond White, P2
K-A, it is my understanding that the CLS still resides on the W211 platform as did the original CLS.
06-29-2011, 06:01 PM
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If it is a W211 platform, what a disaster. That platform wasn't the strongest, and I'd never pay more for a car that's built on the previous version of its cheaper-twins new platform.
06-30-2011, 02:59 AM
#219
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OMG you guys are lost in here. The CLS and the E-Class sedan share their own platform. Period. The C-Class and the E-Class coupe share a chassis also, just like with the old CLK models. The 2012 CLS is based on the W212 chassis, not the W211. How backwards would that be to base a brand new CLS on an already replaced chassis.
The E Coupe/Convertible have some E-Class hardware, but a quick look at its measurements and the lack of Airmatic and other features shows it to be a C-Class variant. The last true E Coupe was the C124 300CE/E320 Coupe that ran from 1988-1995, it was priced higher than the sedan, not lower. A true Mercedes coupe variant of an existing sedan is ALWAYS priced higher, not lower.
The E-Class is not a "lengthened and widened" version the C-Class. It is a shame that someone can post such misinformation and it gets taken seriously and starts a discussion.
All cars from any particular brand share parts, but it doesn't mean that they actually share a whole chassis. All Mercedes "platforms" are similar just as BMWs are, the engineering is the same, just more so elaborate as you go up in price/specification.
Its hilarious, misinformation and then panic over nothing.
What is with this site anyway, no new forums for the new CLS or SLK???? Is anyone running the site or what?
M
The E Coupe/Convertible have some E-Class hardware, but a quick look at its measurements and the lack of Airmatic and other features shows it to be a C-Class variant. The last true E Coupe was the C124 300CE/E320 Coupe that ran from 1988-1995, it was priced higher than the sedan, not lower. A true Mercedes coupe variant of an existing sedan is ALWAYS priced higher, not lower.
The E-Class is not a "lengthened and widened" version the C-Class. It is a shame that someone can post such misinformation and it gets taken seriously and starts a discussion.
All cars from any particular brand share parts, but it doesn't mean that they actually share a whole chassis. All Mercedes "platforms" are similar just as BMWs are, the engineering is the same, just more so elaborate as you go up in price/specification.
Its hilarious, misinformation and then panic over nothing.
What is with this site anyway, no new forums for the new CLS or SLK???? Is anyone running the site or what?
M
Last edited by Germancar1; 06-30-2011 at 03:05 AM.
06-30-2011, 07:42 AM
#220
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2012 CLS63
OMG you guys are lost in here. The CLS and the E-Class sedan share their own platform. Period. The C-Class and the E-Class coupe share a chassis also, just like with the old CLK models. The 2012 CLS is based on the W212 chassis, not the W211. How backwards would that be to base a brand new CLS on an already replaced chassis.
The E Coupe/Convertible have some E-Class hardware, but a quick look at its measurements and the lack of Airmatic and other features shows it to be a C-Class variant. The last true E Coupe was the C124 300CE/E320 Coupe that ran from 1988-1995, it was priced higher than the sedan, not lower. A true Mercedes coupe variant of an existing sedan is ALWAYS priced higher, not lower.
The E-Class is not a "lengthened and widened" version the C-Class. It is a shame that someone can post such misinformation and it gets taken seriously and starts a discussion.
All cars from any particular brand share parts, but it doesn't mean that they actually share a whole chassis. All Mercedes "platforms" are similar just as BMWs are, the engineering is the same, just more so elaborate as you go up in price/specification.
Its hilarious, misinformation and then panic over nothing.
What is with this site anyway, no new forums for the new CLS or SLK???? Is anyone running the site or what?
M
The E Coupe/Convertible have some E-Class hardware, but a quick look at its measurements and the lack of Airmatic and other features shows it to be a C-Class variant. The last true E Coupe was the C124 300CE/E320 Coupe that ran from 1988-1995, it was priced higher than the sedan, not lower. A true Mercedes coupe variant of an existing sedan is ALWAYS priced higher, not lower.
The E-Class is not a "lengthened and widened" version the C-Class. It is a shame that someone can post such misinformation and it gets taken seriously and starts a discussion.
All cars from any particular brand share parts, but it doesn't mean that they actually share a whole chassis. All Mercedes "platforms" are similar just as BMWs are, the engineering is the same, just more so elaborate as you go up in price/specification.
Its hilarious, misinformation and then panic over nothing.
What is with this site anyway, no new forums for the new CLS or SLK???? Is anyone running the site or what?
M
I also think some people like to read their type....
and say the word "platform" over and over again.....to sound like one with brains......
he who talks the most.......usually knows the least....
knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens
Last edited by hyperion667; 06-30-2011 at 07:44 AM.
06-30-2011, 09:09 AM
#221
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2016 Audi S8 Plus/ 2011 Mercedes e550 4Matic//Gone:1985 500SEL/2000 e320 4Matic/ 2001 e55 Kleeman
really enjoyed this post........it seems we do have many many know it alls around here.......and since not many people do the research for them seleves, every word is taken as law...........
I also think some people like to read their type....
and say the word "platform" over and over again.....to sound like one with brains......
he who talks the most.......usually knows the least....
knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens
I also think some people like to read their type....
and say the word "platform" over and over again.....to sound like one with brains......
he who talks the most.......usually knows the least....
knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens
06-30-2011, 10:02 AM
#222
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MY17 E43 Matte Selenite/Macchiato Beige, MY16 GLE350d Tenorite/Crystal Grey, MY17 B250
From Daimler
The CLS-Class boasts a three-link front axle. This is mounted on an extremely stiff, weight-optimised integral subframe. Compared with the 212 series, the cross struts and torque struts have a steeper angle which improves handling.
The three-link front axle on the CLS-Class offers the following benefits:
■improved anti-roll control
■Improved transfer of lateral forces to the road
■minimal weight
■very good crash characteristics
The multi-link independent rear suspension with its lightweight design is mounted on a lighter weight rear axle subframe made out of high-strength steel. A significant increase in the rigidity at the force transmission points provides additional support for the front subframe mounts.
The multi-link independent rear suspension excels by virtue of:
■unsurpassed wheel location qualities
■Superb ride comfort and driving dynamics
■improved acoustic and vibration characteristics
The CLS-Class boasts a three-link front axle. This is mounted on an extremely stiff, weight-optimised integral subframe. Compared with the 212 series, the cross struts and torque struts have a steeper angle which improves handling.
The three-link front axle on the CLS-Class offers the following benefits:
■improved anti-roll control
■Improved transfer of lateral forces to the road
■minimal weight
■very good crash characteristics
The multi-link independent rear suspension with its lightweight design is mounted on a lighter weight rear axle subframe made out of high-strength steel. A significant increase in the rigidity at the force transmission points provides additional support for the front subframe mounts.
The multi-link independent rear suspension excels by virtue of:
■unsurpassed wheel location qualities
■Superb ride comfort and driving dynamics
■improved acoustic and vibration characteristics
07-06-2011, 05:55 PM
#224
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MY17 E43 Matte Selenite/Macchiato Beige, MY16 GLE350d Tenorite/Crystal Grey, MY17 B250
Prices won't be released until late August (MY12 production starts in September). Specs are very similar to MY11, altho with new engines of course.
There's also a great 2011 E-Class "125th Anniversary Edition" that's hitting dealers now - basically you get the new full-color instrument cluster, designo wood trim and genuine leather for free on all 350s.
There's also a great 2011 E-Class "125th Anniversary Edition" that's hitting dealers now - basically you get the new full-color instrument cluster, designo wood trim and genuine leather for free on all 350s.
07-06-2011, 06:14 PM
#225
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Prices won't be released until late August (MY12 production starts in September). Specs are very similar to MY11, altho with new engines of course.
There's also a great 2011 E-Class "125th Anniversary Edition" that's hitting dealers now - basically you get the new full-color instrument cluster, designo wood trim and genuine leather for free on all 350s.
There's also a great 2011 E-Class "125th Anniversary Edition" that's hitting dealers now - basically you get the new full-color instrument cluster, designo wood trim and genuine leather for free on all 350s.
The special edition sounds like a plan to keep buyers interested until the late arriving 2012s are here.
