BM2BZ

just fyi...

http://www.jdpower.com/news/pressrel...spx?ID=2012008

theunderlord

lol..

sad sack Ram, Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge..

K-A

Nice, look at Benz climbing back to the top. BMW in the dumps.

ImInPA

I think that the most telling statistic from the Reliability list is that even the vary worst vehicle on that iist has less than 2 problems per vehicle. That is incredible.

steelgrey

Just for the record J.D. Powers ratings are based on owners responses to questionnaires. They mailed out 31,000 questionnaires in total. That would be on 32 tested models. Which means their results are based on 968 questionnaires per vehicle. Now you have to factor in how many people are going to take the time to bother responding. In my mind this provides a very small cross section of owners experiences. Although J.D. Powers has no paid affilations their manner of collecting data in my mind diminishes their ratings usefulness.

rjm

Yah, 1.12 problems per vehicle for MB vs. 1.54 problems per vehicle for BMW is truly significant...

Especially since the study relates to 2009 vehicles:

"The study measures problems experienced during the past 12 months by original owners of three-year-old (2009 model-year) vehicles."

What is significant, as the study points out, is the over-all excellence of the the quality improvements in all vehicles.

ImInPA

Actuall there is little to no difference between 1.12 amd 1.54. It is right there with the 2.5 childeren you may have. It is very unlikely that you wil have a .1, .2, .3, .4, .5, .6, .7, .8, or a .9 problem. Problems are whole numbers. You may have one problem or two problems, but you wil not have half a problem. These stats show how very close all of these vehicles are in terms of quality and reliability. To anyone with even a passing familiarity with statistics should see this.

steelgrey

Well, what I was saying in my post above is that this report is totally meaningless. As stated above by rjm "The study measures problems experienced during the past 12 months by original owners of three-year-old (2009 model-year) vehicles." There is also no way of knowing how many responses the numbers are based on. It could 600, 200, or 10.

rjm

That's what I was trying to point out...with some humor. The difference between 1.12 and 1.54 problems per car is insignificant. I was just poking some humor at the earlier post that so proudly stated "Nice, look at Benz climbing back to the top. BMW in the dumps" The difference is insignificant.

ImInPA

And to that, I raise my glass.....

listerone

Surprising to see Infiniti near the bottom...I put a total of almost 100K miles on two Infinitis and they were both rock solid.Good to see the E Class near the top...hope it applies to diesels as well as gassers.

listerone

A year or so ago a local Detroit TV station sent a camera crew out to a nearby Chrysler plant.They arrived at lunch time and found several different groups hanging out in parking lots looking and sounding like they were trashed.Several could be seen in the background smoking joints.Given Chrysler's abysmal repair record over the years it's easy to accept that the workers are usually legless while on the line.

ghstudio

I would have rated infiniti towards the top with my two M35's, but then I leased a 2011 M37.....terrible transmission, nothing the dealer could do to fix it. I got rid of the car (bought out the lease). I'm now enjoying a trouble free 2011 e-350 bluetec.

Raymond Lee

ghstudio
Thank you for sharing your thought. Your BlueTec will prove something to you. So far I do not find negatives on our BlueTec! Yesterday I was parked side by side with BMW 5 series, my guest said BlueTec is quieter than Bimmer and he could not tell if it was a typical diesel engine.

K-A

.... Or, you can put it another way and say that M-B's are rated as almost 25% more reliable than BMW's. If you look up Owners Boards and common problems occurring between newer M-B's and BMW's, you'd think the difference would be far more significant than what J.D Powers is even showing.

steelgrey

Why do you think the Hyundai Genesis is number one. Let's see...I bought a cheap copy of a more expensive car that has great looks, a tradition seeped in automotive history, and an euthusiastic owner base. Yes, I mean the E class. Now somebody sends me this questionaire...I'm gonna rate everything really high so my cheap car rates higher than that car I really wanted but couldn't afford. Voila...welcome to the J.D. Powers reliability ratings.

BenzV12

Mercedes should be on the top , as most asian cars that hyundai is like a fake copy whereas Mercedes W212 is out of this world compared to other cars in its category .
It goes without saying that body of W212 is tough too

K-A

Looks good here.

Raymond Lee

Hyundai Car quality/Relieability will steadily go up because of its CEO's policy on quality. The man is betting on it. He himself will stop production line if he hears quality issue. He was visiting Hyundai's Alabama factory with the state's governor. He told plant manager to open hood of selected car, he didn't know how to do it. The next day he got fired! Just like that. That is the man.

K-A

Whoever's running the show at Hyundai (the CEO you speak of), is an absolute genius. I don't care what anyone says. Hyundai has gone from the bottom to the top in so many ways, and is in extremely short timing, a massive Threat to EVERYONE in the car business, from Honda to Mercedes.

I don't like Hyundai's, and they have a LONG way to go before I ever spend anything more than "Beater/Appliance" money on one, but you gotta respect what they've done on a business end, regardless of an enthusiast end (which is where I don't feel so impressed by them, though, they're more interesting than Honda and Toyota, that's for sure).

I guess it all makes sense, considering that story. Props to the CEO.

El Cid

I owned a Hyundai Azera and almost got a Hyundai Genesis, but wanted something more impressive than a Hyundai and was concerned that Equus would lessen Genesis, as Genesis did the Azera. Few other reasons as well.
John Krafcik is CEO of HMA and MBUSA should have hired him when they got their new CEO.
I wrote Krafcik a letter about why I did not buy a Genesis and what they could do to the car to make me consider one. HE called me! Had a real nice conversation. BTW, he has "chats" on the HMA customer advisor website about every six months and other senior personnel are on their frequently as well.
Consider how many cars Hyundai sells in US vs. M-B and how many customers they have vs. M-B. I'm sure Hyundai has far more, but their customer service is fantastic vs. MBUSA. And MBUSA is a reflection of DBAG in Germany.
Still like my E a lot, but M-B is not the car company it should be.
If Hyundai ever does spin off a luxury make, ala Lexus, Infiniti and Acura; the Europeans will be in trouble.

K-A

Wait.... the CEO called you?! That's amazing. Honestly, that brings my respect level of that brand up a lot. Not my personal thing, though I would buy a Sonata or something if I needed an appliance second-car, but it that passion behind their work shows in the rapid growth of the products.

Raymond Lee

El Cid
I happen to agree with you. In the coming years, I predict seeing lot more Genessis on the road. JD Power report giving Hyundai the top raiting alone will help boost their sale and recognition. My friend is going into third year with his car and he has had 0 defacts to date.

K-A

They also have the next gen Azera coming out. It looks pretty funky-nasty (fugly) in my opinion, but definitely puts a lot of effort to mix numerous styling cues from much more expensive vehicles and mash them up. It'll be another "has the features/amenities from much more expensive vehicles with Hyundai pricing and workmanship". I'm sure it'll be a Sales winner.

RNBRAD

Yea Hyandai is on a roll. All auto manufacturers better take note or suffer the losses. The name has always scared me mainly due to the "new" factor and not having a history of sorts or long track record. After driving one recently and looking at like the Genesis at a dealer show, I have been nothing but highly impressed. They offer features in their mid 30k range cars that you don't get in MB's twice the price, one for example was heated and ventilated rear seats. They have all of our "prestigious" features and then some and offer it in sedans at half the price. If the quality and safety are there, then of course it would be dumb for even Mercedes owners not to take a closer look. I'm sure many are stuck on the "status" versus what a comparable car has to offer over the "prestigious" brands. Put the MB badge on the Genesis and I'm sure to many it would automatically become a " I got to have it" appeal.