np888

I have a 2012 E550 coupe. I bought the car brand new in May 2012. The rotars warped at 8,000 miles. The car would shake and shudder every time I braked. They replaced the pads and rotars telling me that they had warped (although they had the nerve to mark down that I had been driving the car aggressively - if by aggressive they mean sitting in bumper to bumper traffic every day then yes.) Although they did keep the car for 2 weeks for good measure.

Anyway, the car now has 12,100 miles, and the problem has returned. Every time I brake the car shudders. I called my dealer and they told me they would be scrutinizing very closely as they have already done this once, and they're not going to want to replace them again. I almost lost my **** at this, I spend $70,000 on a car and these clowns are now threatening to not replace them. I also love how on the website they tout the brakes as being "high performance" and can "with stand repeated hard braking" LOL. right. My bicycle has better brakes than this piece of crap.

Anyway, what's my best course of action here? I absolutely REFUSE to pay $700 for another set of worthless brakes. I have the car booked in at another dealer, but the brakes are 100 miles out of warranty. I think it's ridiculous that a $70,000 car has brakes that are apparently only good for a few thousand miles. I will never buy another Mercedes again.

Arrie

Your new rotors and pads should not be out of warranty.

Anyway, search this forum. There is lots of writing around this topic. Several others have had the issue repeating and it seems MB uses very poor components. It is a shame a car like this gets bad mark from an important part like brakes.

About hard driving your dealer's comment can be flushed thru the toilet. We cannot even drive hard in N.A. The car is made to perform on a German Autobahn where you really can drive it hard and the brakes are made to handle that.

If you are to pay for new brakes don't do it at MB dealer. They just install the same sh** as you already know. You can buy much better brake rotors and pads for lots less money from third party parts dealers and these do not have problems and if they do there is no questions asked when they give you a new part under warranty.

mleskovar

Rotors 'warping' is a widespread misnomer. If you don't want the same problem to happen again you need to bed in your new pads and rotors properly. This white paper explains what happens and how to prevent it. Rush hour freeway driving on new pads/rotors is usually the cause.
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths

np888

I actually bedded them in last time. The brakes on this car are just worthless. And Mercedes is too spineless to step up and admit there's a problem.

mleskovar

My car doesn't have the problem. Neither does thousands more on the road or MB wouldn't be selling them. The paper explains the reason for the shaking/vibration and if you follow procedure and it still happens then you probably need a different/harder pad than MB offers. One trick to use when bedding them in an urban/town environment is to use the parking brake after stops so the pads don't imprint/transfer material on the rotor. Every car with disc brakes will suffer this problem given the right conditions. This problem is also prevalent with "late brakers" and commuter freeway stop and go.....regardless of manufacturer.

np888

Actually, there are probably at least 25 threads of 2011+ E550 owners complaining about the exact same problem on these forums. I believe one guy has even started a class action lawsuit against MB USA for this.

Quite frankly, I didn't spend $70,000 on a car so that I have to go out and bed brakes in and do all this other nonsense. I've had over 15 cars, that have been driven in the exact same way, and I've never even had to replace rotors, let alone twice in 10 months.

You likely don't have the problem, because the only people who suffer from this seem to be 550 owners which have the larger (and apparently worse) brakes.

I gusss there's not much I can do. I'm just gonna leave it, and get rid of this car. Learned my lesson the hard way, should have stuck with the ultimate driving machine.

mleskovar

Go to any manufacturer's forum and you'll find identical threads. Sounds like you have your mind made up.

rufmb

I'm inclined to believe this is the case, a perfect storm of several factors unfortunately coming together to cause np888's issue. And yes, every manufacturer forum has threads bashing poor brakes.

Arrie

What a nonsense!

If the brake bedding was needed for disk brakes and pads then every new car would come with an instruction card hanging from the rear view mirror reading with red letters a warning first that the brakes must be bedded correctly. If not then the warranty would not apply.

But the new cars don't have this. Reason is, it is not needed if the brake components are made correctly and every car maker tries to make them correctly. They assume the new car from them is fine. All the nonsense about bedding etc. has developed by the car makers/dealers to try to talk their way out of warranty repairs.

Then some of this writing comes from other brake component makers making them sound experts and also help themselves to get out of warranty part replacement. I would not buy brakes from people who write about this because this writing already tells me that their components may have problems and I would be left alone if my brakes from them would develop a problem.

I have an E550, 2010 model though, and I don't have any problems. I have 43 000 miles on it and changed the pads once just to get rid of the dust, i.e. bought third party pads and replaced pads only. No problems at all. And I did not have brake issues with the OEM pads either (other than the dust).

If the brake rotor (disk) gets warped it is a poor cast issue at manufacturing that leaves stresses in the material that then release under heating condition during braking and cause deformation to the rotor.

If the rotor has thickness variation it means the rotor material hardness (wear resistance) changes around the rotor making it wear unevenly during braking.

If the rotor gets uneven coating of pad material on it, which I have never seen in my life and have to take the article writers word that this can actually happen, then it is a bad pad material. Or perhaps the writer talks about the race conditions where the rotors can actually glow red from heat and this for sure could burn the pad material unevenly on the rotor especially if the car comes to a stop under this condition.

This is not rocket science! Bad brake components are the problem, not the way everyday driver drives the car and there is no beddind needed, period!

bp95gsx

I hope my rotors don't warp. If they did warp early and my dealer didn't change for free I'd be pissed!

mleskovar

So how do you explain the same driver having the same problem over and over and you didn't? They just had bad luck with the parts they're putting on? It's driving style or driving conditions as the root cause and the reason why everyone (including you evidently) doesn't experience it. You can discount the white paper all you want...even if you didn't understand it....but it's not a theory paper. I had a Honda that I couldn't get more than 4K miles out of the rotors and pads before shimmy set in during braking. After several sets of pads and rotors I researched it and properly bedded in the next set. End of problem. I was just offering a possible solution to someone's recurring problem.


I can see your mind is made up. No use confusing you with the facts

Arrie

Your first two lines has the answer. MB probably changed the supplier or changed the specifications for the rotors between 2010 and later models. Or their supplier have quality problems that they don't test for.

And hey, we all have the right to our opinion. I also try to help so the OP don't go doing some unnecessary "bedding" with the new brakes from the dealer as it will not solve anything. There are numerous posts about this in this forum where people have done all bedding procedures and it did not help.

My advice is, if MB does not replace the brakes again, to buy third party rotors and ceramic pads and have them put on by some indy shop. This will most likely fix it and no bedding needed.

And, believe me I have enough mechanical engineering in my background for you to confuse me with any "facts" that you may have.

MinnBobber

Sorry to hear about your brake troubles.

What procedure did you use to bed in the brakes?
What did the rotors look like after this procedure?

I'm a big believer in how important this is. That's why
the vast majority of brake parts companies recommend
this. It's actually more important for "light brakers" than those
who "drive it like you stole it" drivers. And, important for E550s
as their brakes seem inclined to problems.

From one expert,
"Bedding allows your brakes to reach their full potential. Until they are bedded, your brakes simply do not work as well as they can. If you've installed a big brake kit, changed your pads and rotors, or even purchased a brand new car, you should set aside time to bed the brakes according to the instructions below. Proper bedding improves pedal feel, reduces or eliminates brake squeal, prevents (and often cures) brake judder, reduces brake dust, and extends the life of your pads and rotors."

Why doesn't MB recommend this brake bedding procedure?
Liability for those that get careless driving tickets for
doing this in traffic??

RobbieRob

I'm sure that most women and senior citizens that buy a e 550 don't bed there brakes or know what that even is, so I think that is a bunch of nonsense. This is my 6th MB and never had any issues with brakes on any model I owned, and have had corvettes, and currently own a older Porsche(01' 911) and haven't ever experienced this crap like the E550. These brakes on the E550's are junk, rotors are definitely a problem and MB is trying to do as little as possible to correct it. My idiotic dealer told me it was because of my aftermarket wheels?? Really, idiots.

np888

Basically this. I've owned many, many cars, and have been doing the same commute for years. My F10 5 series did the same commute for 2 years without a single problem. Yet I switch to this crappy Mercedes and within 10 months the problem happens twice.

And to those of you saying it must be my driving because it hasn't happend to you. Had you actually read any of my posts, you would note I wrote the problems seems to be exclusively on E550's. Not E350's which have completely different brakes.

mleskovar

+1 That "perfect storm" is more prevalent in freeway and mountain environments. It seems that some people are upset that their driving style or environment might attribute to this problem. What?

np888

That would be a perfectly logical explanation. Had I not been making the EXACT SAME commute for 5 years. Not a single other car I've owned has had this problem. Yet this car does twice. Explain that?

Regardless, the brakes on this car are crap. I'm glad you have an E350 which doesn't have these problems.

Glyn M Ruck

Suggest you chaps read the Stoptech white paper on bedding brakes. Bembo happens to agree with them.

From the earliest days of disc brakes on early 60's Jaguars, Dunlop required one to run them in properly although they did not fully understand the mechanism at that time.

Arrie

Would you mind telling us which car makers do recommend brake bedding in the car manual that comes with the vehicle?

Arrie

It is the low quality brake rotors they use. And to get a German car maker to admit that their engineers made a mistake or that their purchasers use a wrong parts supplier...

Arrie

I assume you mean the brake parts maker that MB uses agrees with the bedding. Read my earlier posts. This bedding crap originates from people who try to find their way around paying for replacement parts for the crappy ones they supply.

MinnBobber

+1 Glyn.

Just because MB (and other manufs) don't put brake bedding in their owner manuals, doesn't mean it should be disregarded. Will brakes work without it? Sure. Will they work as well, last as long, not shudder--- ?? Proper brake bedding helps all of these elements.

From brake experts, "Let's say that again, just so there is no misunderstanding. Uneven pad deposits on the rotor face are the number one, and almost exclusive cause of brake judder or vibration". Folks usually say "their rotors were warped" and that is 9/10 not correct. If you correctly/evenly apply pad deposits on your rotor face, it helps in all aspects of brake life and performance.

mleskovar

OK, you win, the brakes are crap. But not for everyone and if you want to join the happy camper crowd you can with some extra effort that shouldn't be required on a $70K car. Incidentally it's more than just a nuisance. Besides the obvious affect on braking that shimmy you feel is transmitted from the rotor up through the suspension and steering mechanisms and over time degrades those assemblies as well.

Glyn M Ruck

With respect ~ not so. Brembo is disc & caliper supplier to Benz & Pagid is the pad supplier. Brembo makes some of the finest braking components around.

I'll bet there was zero run out on those rotors but uneven friction material deposition. Presume no one checked them with a dial gauge?

Benz typically states in the owners manual:

Warning!
New vehicle brake pads and discs, and
replacement brake pads and discs may
take several hundred miles of driving until
they provide optimum braking efficiency.
Until that time, you may need to use
increased brake pedal pressure while
braking. Please be aware of this and adjust
your driving and braking accordingly during
this break-in period.

They are hoping this achieves what Stoptech etc are getting at. Most owners are not sufficiently technically savvy to perform proper break in so they hope this achieves it.

The only real way to crack or warp a ventilated disc is to run into deep water after severe braking or turn a garden hose on the discs while they are stinking hot.

I find it interesting the way the same troubles follow the same drivers around on these forums. I wonder why that is?

ddeliber

I have a couple problems with this.

If the quote you have above is in the MB manuals (I just haven't checked) wouldn't this actually be worse? From what I have learned to properly bed the brakes you need to brake hard to get them hot to evenly layer the pad material yes but you also need to not stop fully right away. Isn't the stopping what leaves the uneven deposits on the discs - pad touching/gripping a very hot non-moving disc.

If it is the driver, wouldn't you expect that the issue would develop the same way for all cars he/she drives (assuming similar conditions)?

Now this could surely be because MB uses "special" brake discs, not necessarily crappy ones. If this is the case, they really should provide proper instructions don't you think?

Plus telling someone that it is their fault for aggressive braking (as in this case) and not telling they why or even how to prevent this is totally unacceptable. BTW, isn't the warranty for brake pads/discs 1 year? Shouldn't the OP still be covered?