Gatt

i wish I could do that, but I cant update since all I get is a black screen when I switch from the original system to the carplay system

cadetdrivr

Hmmm...I'm sure you have done this but just in case, have you double checked all the connections (especially the video) AND the DIP switches on the Joyeauto unit itself?

If you are able to switch back and forth that means that something is working correctly in the Joyeauto unit but it's not being displayed.

Gatt

yeah made sure of all the connections and the dip switches and yes I can switch Between the two system but whenever i switch to the carplay ones just a black screen i think my unit is bricked somehow i guess because I tired everything and joyeauto support doesn't even k ow whats the problem

raja777m

I didn't read the whole thread, but simple question. does this upgrade comes with using the existing cameras as sentry mode (Surveillance or Dashcam mode?) I want it to rely on the aux battery, so it will last a bit longer.

bE550

I've been doing a little research on these newer boxes. They sound great except for one hiccup: the sellers say that an AMI/MMI connector is required. My 2014 has the AMI/MMI port in the arm rest, which means that installing also requires disassembling the centre console to run a cable there. Not sure I understand why that is required, but I gather it has something to do with getting the sound in. Did you have to do that in the GL?

bE550

I spoke with some of the vendors for the new "next generation" system. I have and AMI/MMI connector in my arm rest on my 2014 W212. The vendors say that for the install that connector has to be used, I presume for sound. That means an install additionally requires disassembling the centre console to run a cable to the arm rest. Did you have to use an AMI/MMI connector? Did you run it to the arm rest? Disassembling the dash makes it a big job; with the console even more so.

Thanks for an amazingly informative thread.

cadetdrivr

Nope, no AMI/MMI connector is required on MB Comand NTG 4.5/4.7 units. This is the the same for both the original Joyeauto and next-gen box.

CarPlay works via wifi (after an initial bluetooth handshake) so it's a totally wireless connection.

There is a USB port on the box and you can run a USB cable to any convenient location so I expressly did not wire it to the center console for the reasons you mentioned. But that would be an option, I guess. But even if one did, I would terminate it in an exposed USB port and not the AMI/MMI for a "finished look."

In my case, I power my iPhone on longer drives via USB (from a small USB power adapter in the lighter socket) or a Qi wireless charger cradle.

Potrice

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the thread. I was, minutes ago, going to pull the trigger on the Joyeauto system. But with the arrival of the new-gen units, I think I'll wait a little bit now.

I drive the w166 (2013 ML350 BT) and I have a couple of questions,

1- Do I have to install a new microphone? I don't plan on using wireless that much since I always plug my phone to charge it anyways. Ideally, I would like to use the OEM mic and the OEM backup camera on the OEM screen. Basically, I really want this unit for the nav apps like Waze and Google Maps. I really like the OEM nav, but updating the map every couple of years sucks.
2- Does it change anything if my car has the HK sound system option? Does it involve additional steps?
3- @cadetdrivr Which unit did you install in your wife's GL? The one you linked says it's incompatible (according to AliExpress's my garage) for my ML (but I'm 99% sure that the GL and ML are both W166 and use the same system 4.5 NTG). I've been eyeing this one on Aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000...archweb201603_

Is that the one you installed? It is way cheaper than the Joyeauto one. On the ad, they show a different screen than the OEM one on my 2013 ML350 though, maybe it's just for presentation? That's not the same as the 4.5 NTG (which I think my suv is using).

Thanks guys!

cadetdrivr

That unit you found on Aliexpress physically looks exactly like the "Road Top" unit I installed. I have no idea if the internal hardware or software are similar or not. FWIW, the Road Top unit uses the MB mic so you don't have to wire a separate one.

Yes, if you have HK Sound you need to move the fiber-optic connector from the back of the existing wire harness to the new harness. You also probably need to activate the AUX function in the Comand engineering menu. The directions to do both are identical to the W212 instructions in the first few posts of this thread.

On the GL I simply let a lighting cable attached to the Road Top USB connection hang down above the front of the center console and it tucks away out of sight when not in use. We don't even use that cable and instead plug the phone into a USB power adapter plugged into the lighter socket for power. Using wireless is actually the default setup and works well. In fact, as soon as you unlock the truck (or open a door) power is applied to the Command unit and the box they are already syncing up before you sit down.

In total, installing in the ML/GL is a magnitude easier than the W212. All you need is a trim removal tool and the same T20 driver. There are literally only two screws involved in the entire process and there are a couple good videos online for the ML/GL including the one below. The installation concept is identical to earlier hardware boxes, it's just a newer box now.

Potrice

Thanks! I will probably pull the trigger this afternoon. The installation doesn't worry me that much. It's more about the support/firmware updates from these new companies. Joyeauto you pay significantly more, but they have (or seem to have according to previous posts) adequate support for future updates.

cadetdrivr

That was the same concern that I had. I have low expectations for support from these generic Ali sellers with no websites, and I went into it knowing that.

That said, I don't know offhand what firmware is needed for the Road Top unit. They fixed all my suggestions for improvements with the Joyeauto unit and the firmware appears solid. (Knock on wood.)

Potrice

And how do you update the firmware? Do you install the firmware update on a USB flash drive and then insert it into the USB port of the unit?

cadetdrivr

On the Joyeauto unit, yes.

I presume this new box is similar but I don’t know. If all these various new boxes are identical hardware running common software I suspect we might see something from one that works on all. Or not.

There’s also an intriguing setting in the new box that gives the impression that it can also automatically download some sort of CarPlay update. I don’t know enough about the back-end of CarPlay to make any conclusions about what it actually does.

bE550

The vendor is saying there won’t be sound without the AMI/MMI cable being plugged in. Do you know which connection carries the audio in your setup?
I ordered one, so we’ll see...

Potrice

Which one did you order?

bE550

same one from roadtop. Also spoke with carsara who said the same thing. Though perhaps there was a communication misunderstanding.

cadetdrivr

Well, I don't use AMI/MMI or have anything plugged into that port but I have sound, so......

I don't know what vender you are using but when using CarPlay on both the Joyeauto and Road Top units the audio is transmitted via WiFi (or wired) from the iPhone to the unit and then via a wired connection from the unit to the Comand box for amplification. The Joyeauto unit has a separate wire harness for audio while it's integrated into the main harness on the Road Top unit. On both my USA spec vehicles with HK I had to manually enable AUX in the engineering menu to make it work. (See post #2 in this thread for instructions.)

I'm wondering if they are talking about using AMI/MMI when using a source other than than CarPlay or Android Auto with their unit? But if you are doing that why would you need their box?

Or perhaps this is their work-around to keep folks from having to enter the engineering menu on Comand?

bE550

Did your CAN cable have a 3.5mm headphone plug coming out of it? You just left it unplugged?

This seems to be the W212 version of what you ordered for your GL: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000752216835.html

And includes an MMI/AMI connector.

cadetdrivr

Nope, no 3.5mm plug on the Road Top harness. FWIW, there was a 3.5mm on the Joyeauto harness which connected to an analog output on the Joyeauto unit. This wiring simplification is one of the improvements, IMHO.

FWIW, this photo on the Road Top Aliexpress listing with the male 3.5mm plug on the "power cable" appears to show a harness similar to the Joyeauto unit. An old stock photo, perhaps?

For kicks, I just went to the basement and pulled the Road Top box off the shelf. Yup, there's a MMI/AMI adapter in there after all, and still sealed up. The more I think about the more I'm convinced the AMI is really just there to make the AUX input "active" when plugged in and thus selectable by Comand as the unit requires AUX when using CarPlay. There's no reason to plug anything into it. If fact, there's nothing to plug into it. And when the setting is changed in the engineering menu it's not necessary at all, apparently.

bE550

Thanks for checking.

I also found another vendor (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000656800819.html). They include a wiring diagram (https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H52032407...bff11e481A.jpg) that has no 3.5mm or AMI. And yet in their photo of the wiring (https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H9851e77f...1aafa4cfdz.jpg) they include what looks like a female 3.5mm.

Note that there are at least three different "Road Top" vendors with slightly different names: "Road Top", "Road Top Carplay", and "RoadTop Franchised Store". Their wiring all appears to be slightly different. Not sure if it's old photos or actually different.

They all say that there will be no sound without plugging in the MMI/AMI cable. Did you try your new box on the W212 or only the GL? I wonder if they're different.

Here's the manual: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tvU...tDt2BVj57/edit

cadetdrivr

Yup, that’s the same manual that was packed in the box.

I have not tried the Road Top unit in the E-Class but after playing with CarPlay retrofits on both the W212 and X166 I’m 100% convinced that the NTG units are identical across the MB line except for the screen sizes and panel trim. This is why they can sell the same retrofits that are compatible across the line.

bE550

And just to be clear, in your W212 you do have a AMI/MMI port in the armrest? If not, I'm wondering if cars equipped with a port have a different wiring harness, so that audio in can only be done through the port. The vendors are adamant that there will be no audio without running the 3.5 mm to the arm rest and then connecting via the MMI, which runs back to the COMAND unit. They even sent me an install video for the centre console.

cadetdrivr

I cannot be any more clear: I have the port in both the cars (both MY2014 NTG4.7) and have not used the MMI/AMI with either the Joyeauto or Road Top units. Both sent audio directly into the main wire harness (AKA power cable) on the back of the Comand unit. I never touched the center console for either installation. Looking at the manual now, I realize that I never made it past the wiring diagram on page 2 as everything just worked as it was. And sure enough, I see now where it mentions the AMI port on page 4 that I skipped as everything was working.

This only reinforces my opinion that enabling AUX in the engineering menu is the key to the whole thing as the GL had already been setup for AUX during the previous Joyeauto installation.

FWIW, this is the exact Road Top unit I purchased. It looks like they changed the listing in the interim as it originally listed multiple MB vehicles including the GL, now it just says GLK. (I did have to change the DIPs on the unit for a 7" screen as it arrived pre-set for 5.8".)

Hope this helps.

bE550

I've ordered and I'll keep you posted.

Potrice

I've been speaking with a representative and this is what he said: ''Ami-aux cables are needed when you cannot select aux channel in settings. So it’s like a member said, it’s to activate it in settings (making it selectable). For some NTG 4.5 cars (not NTG 4.7), you can activate AUX by going into developer settings.''

So Cadetdrivr appears to be correct.