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This oil valve if you google, is a quite often a failure on many models of MB engine, not only diesel. Good thing it is a fail-safe model, otherwise it is sad.
I guess its working location is hot and the dumb-azz internal intermediate wiring connector is WET with oil and at 90C probably, such a severe place to be for the intermediate connector.
Oil when dirty can also be a conductor so, dirty oil bath is never a good thing, unless simple application like the oil level switch.
Hello JC, you've found an interesting thread about diesel Sprinter application. I read the content.... ppl seem confused about solenoid failure and what to do about it.
> When the ECU pops a fault about the open solenoid coil ... they replace a new valve and the driving around on low oil pressure resumes. Then engine fails sometime after.
> The real show-stopper is when the valve plunger or screen gets jammed with non-magnetic piston skirt shavings. The normal pressure is no longer available and the engine goes sayonara. The ECU has no way to limp mode without oil pressure sensor. That would simply prevent drama.
> To be clear... the quick fix I am testing is to unplug the connector to the money valve. When the valve is actuated it shifts the oil pump into low pressure, that is not desirable.
> The honest fix would be to recall all engines and recode the Bosch ECU to limit low pressure to idle only. Obviously engineers didn't design this amazing opportunity to give it up willingly.
+++++ Wrong!
Fix is not "idle only"... this lead to jamming the valve on low > boom!
- Unplug is the best rework....
DIY friendly 👏
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 08-31-2023 at 03:15 PM.
This oil valve if you google, is a quite often a failure on many models of MB engine, not only diesel. Good thing it is a fail-safe model, otherwise it is sad.
I guess its working location is hot and the dumb-azz internal intermediate wiring connector is WET with oil and at 90C probably, such a severe place to be for the intermediate connector.
Oil when dirty can also be a conductor so, dirty oil bath is never a good thing, unless simple application like the oil level switch.
how evolution may lead to deeper explorations...
Surya, the control valve is fail-safe until it gets jammed in actuated position - That's what happened to Tasos V8 engine video mentioned earlier - That is enough danger to disable this valve.
The oil pump has a large internal spring that returns it to normal function when no oil pressure is circulated through control valve.
M276 TT: dry-run disables bearings cushion 🙂
In wet type of bearings, oil normally acts as a dynamic cushion - Without enough oil, we see direct wear from vertical forces of piston onto rotating crankshaft.
This is the sound of dry rattling rods we hear at startup for 2 seconds mostly from sitting engines - This is distinct from the popular rattling of unlocked VVT and loose tensioners.
piston parting into pieces
This looks like serious heat stress from piston crown. One wonder about the job of oil cooling - The piston top see NO friction, only repeated combustion strokes.
Some engines have two oil squirters per cylinder.
We on the other-hand get random squirting.
"Our 2018 GLC300 is presently at the dealer for an electrical issue that they can't reproduce.
Seems to be the accelerator pedal harness issue but they can't get it to happen for them. 2 weeks now.
We have had the new GLB for 2 weeks. IDK what engine is in here but its a 4 cyl. What a piece of garbage this thing is."
@chassis has not let the cat out of the bag yet, no problem - Thread says Mercedes is investigating a strange electrical issue with 2018 accelerator pedal 😅, perhaps in future MB will include regular pistons replacement with wipers schedule.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 08-31-2023 at 08:50 PM.
Finally, I know how to de-pin the X26 connector for the SLK2.8 size female terminals.
Its MB-Delphi original one I got from my regular Germany supplier...ha ha ha....awesome.
The 2nd lock is single latch per terminal if for SLK2.8 big ones.
If for MLK1.2 the smaller terminals, easy to unlock the 2nd lock , it is 1 wider latch/lock per 2 terminals and it is to be unlocked from side-front of the connector where the
grey connector body has a peep window.
The SLK2.8 need a 2nd tool to push the 2nd lock/latch from the REAR !!!!
It is no fun. Use the German made expensive SLK2.8 special tool to push from the front and keep the femae terminal 2 metal "ears" flat, and use another low-cost second tool from the rear to lift up that 2nd plastic latch...while pulling the cable out.
I wish I got 1 extra hand.
This is the second tool I use. It is flat and thin blade of 5 width sizes, of much higher quality than those el-cheapo 20 pcs de-pinning tools.
Bought from Alixepress : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005...64331802feoPUE
YES !!!! It felt like a small lottery win
My own male and female terminals intercept/diverter. 2 Amps fuse used as protection.
Good thing 1 bought 2 of these suitable size wire silicone watertight seal for 1.5mm wire from MB Indonesia. I coud not get it yet from my regular German supplier,
been out of stock too long this bigger size.
You guys can also buy from here, if you ever need it : https://www.lllparts.co.uk/product/s...pn/A0025453780
Maintain originality of MB wire harness.
No cut or soldering to MB OE wires.
.
New n shiny female terminals #7 and #8
I never actually kept the data of oil valve power consumption if at 10% duty cyle, a.k.a not activated. Now I do. 52.99 milliamps.
My 3.4watts bulb x 2 at 10% duty cycle. 66.5 milliamps.
I hate it when it comes to " make-less-messy" additional wiring I have to install. Any "wrong" wires length will look messy.
Predicting how I will bundle up the wire as final setting and be neat and nice..... is never my strong point.
Last week.............
Today.......
The air intakes, one for turbo and one for air-filter make hiding the new oil valve intervention-divertion wire harness rather tricky.
It is a good thing I got the 2 types of TESA tape. For this use, it is the anti-chaffing one. Awesome stuff !!
Where my turbo air intake touch the new wiring assy, albeit no vibration, I still apply Tesa anti-chaffing tape for extra caution .
All tested good with engine NOT running, but Ignition being ON.
Switching between using 2 x 3.4watts incan bulbs and back to OE oil-valve , works flawless, but of course a DTC will be issued when the switching occurred while ignition is ON, but as stored code.
Your harness work is nicely done with your itchy fingers 👏
Toggling the valve manually... not! :
I would advise against toggling to prevent jamming killer valve on low.
While your valve is off for extended period, it's gallery will have a chance to accumulate heavy shavings. Blocked with valve off then circulated with valve on.
I am sure you won't want to switch back after test driving normal pressure.
++++ additional non-magnetic shavings providers:
it's not only piston material, bearings contribute to self-, destruction . Camshaftsaluminumbearing surfaces generate the grit necessary to plug oiling passages in crankshaft bearings. Providing more than adequate lubrication to camshafts is insurance towards longevity.
👍
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 09-01-2023 at 10:53 PM.
I think when I am hooked/addicted/in-lovewith defeating this oil-valve permanently, once in a while I will exercise that oil-valve .
So it feels happy to get some love n care and hopefully does not get jammed up with debris.
Attached stationary test defeated oil valve and normal operating oil valve in Xentry VVT test, CSV output.
When you see XLSX file I labeled V2, those are already modified by me to be able to produce the graphs in WORD documents.
Below are 2 videos. The 2nd video has data logging, attached as the ZIP
1st Video - Oil valve defeated and starting from cold, with Xentry multidata screen capture. Those are the data parameters I will use for on the road test.
Congrats Surya, your engine sounds like it's running smoother with quieter valve train. Naturally we can hear the 24 valves and HPFP work but it sounds more muffled, not so high pitched "metallic" dry.
This is great insurance against wear of camshaft bearings providing loose material... that's what good oil filters catch
camshaft VVT work under normal pressure.
Intake perfect match between ask/get
Exhaust position at idle can not match "ask" - Locked?
The exhaust timing profile climb stray up after idle
>> It would be interesting to compare the above ask/get RPM ramp with valve connected. That would show impact of low pressure on VVT work.
solenoid actuators are extremely responsive regardless of changing pressure... they just needs useable range of pressure to work.
The energy necessary to swing VVT phaser left & right comes from oil diverted from camshafts. VVT consumes camshaft oil pressure.
ECU commanding low pressure at 3366.RPM ....
What a great idea you had, bless your wisdom!
++++ Enhancement candidate : TEMP YO-YO ++++
We've seen how some of the ECU control can really use some help to perform normally. How about we apply our science to tweak the "T-STAT YO-YO" ?
The ECU management of engine Temp should deliver perfect cooling with the help of smart engine fan. However we've seen 1st hand how the MB logic has a few gaps here and there... lol
Imagine a toggle switch to enhance cooling back to normal:
- Fool the heated T-stat resistor load ?
- Cheat the thermistor sensor ?
How about we make the ECU believe "Temps are higher than they are". Hopefully that should force ECU to further open up smart thermostat+ spin fan faster.
I am not a big fan of how suction-fan spins in mild weather. It's a waste of DC power.
Temp of Engine coolant is linked to both engine oil temp + tranny oil Temp.
I'm sure we are going to learn something interesting that lead us to finding another hidden gem...
✌️
Note : When you read the R48 heater as 100%, that is opposite value, that 100% means the heater is zero PWM, basically not working. Yep.
Don't ask me why it is programmed or displayed that way in Xentry. My 1st test with DMM using Duty Cycle to see R48 in action is how I knew it is stupid opposite value.
0% is when the heater is full power...ha ha ha, crazy.
The thermal strategy of my engine, probably the same with your engine, is predictable only so far 1 pattern I can see.
It will target 105C when engine first started and is most case, when engine reached a 100C it will then set 90C target.
Here, I manage to log said thermal management today during the VVT road test.
I was at a friend private marina since 6PM. Engine off and cooled down.
At 10:20 PM I head to the highway to test the VVT in action. So I started my engine. See coolant only 68C, still warm.
Heater for thermostat is not powered up at all ( 100% read as zero power )
ECM loves to see 100C / 212F coolant temp
10 minutes engine running, still ECM wants engine coolant hotter than 95C/203F
By near 11 minutes of torture close to 100C coolant temp maintained, only then heater is fully powered up ( 0% as full power )
Engine coolant allowed to cool down to 87.75C / 190F only
By the time engine coolant has hit 87C / 188.6F , probaby lowest target allowed by ECM... heater is then turned off again.
Depending on car velocity, ECM manipulate radiator fan speed too, for its target 100C coolant temp.
Since I never seen any scary prolong 105C / 221F or 110C / 230Fcoolant temp being maintained by ECM for any longer than 1 minute and also it was raining or very cool mountain ambient air,
I am fine with this kind of thermal management.
The safety key is : our coolant mix has to be the 50/50 to increase the boiling temp chemical wise and maintain the pressure cap of the cooling system to not weaken below 1.4 BAR / 20.30 PSI relief rating.
I freaked out when I saw 120C / 248F within 3 laps of the fun at track back in 2020.
No warning yet, I believe MB overheat warning is 125C / 257F and I don't want to experiment to that level
Tomorrow I will share the VVT test on the road. Still got to sort out the data.......
If you are satisfied with the cooling strategy, I trust your judgement.
I will keep an eye out to learn how other people tweak their German cooling system.
I will be satisfied when I can drive in mild weather without radiator fan running (No A/C! ) - I duno may be the ECU control of my Tstat is moody - Now the ECU is regulating temps high enough that it has to spin fan...
How was your test drive with the new normal oil pressure ?
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 09-04-2023 at 04:48 AM.
The VVT test went well.
As for improvement of my engine response when oil valve is defeated, I can't feel its improvement as good/impressive as the new AFR & oxygen sensors.
I think this is because my engine torque curve is very much different to a 3.5NA engine, due to the 3.0 turbo is a low RPM comfort turbo which at merely 1,400RPM, I already get full torque of the engine at 480 Nm
My engine torque is turbo generated between the time the VVT is supposed to give the advantage too. So turbo benefit masked the VVT benefit.
For M276 3.5NA, the VVT power gain would be noticeable, because it is purely VVT for the up to 3,500 - 4,000 RPM where anyway oil valve will be OFF by 3,550RPM or maybe a bit sooner
if ECM detected the need for more power and it provide the higher oil pressure sooner than the set 3,500 RPM target.
The green pink polka dots region I marked, that is what I estimate to be the improvement by VVT, its region for M276 3.5NA.
My engine is also much less mileage at 39,000KM today or 24,233 miles. So VVT wearing out would be less than your engine which is approx 53,000 miles today, if say we apple to apple it.
It seems the VVT peak activity for mine is at 4,000 RPM.
Here is the two videos of VVT logging, with oil valve defeated and normal. Road Test.
Overall, I am sure this oil-valve defeat will produce an overall longer lived engine and the VVT sprockets, hopefully timing chain too, more so for lead footed driver like me.
Performance improvement should happen too , as far as VVT is concerned and it will be obvious for M276 3.5NA or any similar normally aspirated engine with VVT and that dumb-azz oil-valve
Attached is the full log for your database.
ADD : Oil valve defeated and logged using Banks Gauge
This is after all the test done, I re-connect my Banks Gauge logger and drive home.
Last edited by S-Prihadi; 09-04-2023 at 06:58 AM.
Reason: ADD INFO
This video is about fine throttle modulation and not kick-down, which is part of my deeper test for the new AFR and Oxygen sensors faster response, more to the virtue of the new and faster responding AFR actually.
I want to see in better detail how the new AFR is improving : how easy and fast tranny downshift is now.
The custom data page I use is still the OIL PRESSURE TEST page hence no Lambda data PID.
However, if you download this video and use a video player which can forward and better if also rewind frame by frame ( this is a 30FPS video ), you can see how the VVT response
to throttle valve* angle ( basically my accelerator pedal* ).
Also good to see that how the ECM kill the injectors when I am coasting on throttle valve angle at 2 - 4 degree or less.
Since there are so many data PIDS shown, it seems the data acquisition speed is no better than 3 Hz, still awesome by any scanner standard.
This page in Xentry under ECM Actual Value tab : is INDIVIDUAL ACTUAL VALUE GROUPS, the very bottom one of left window. We can custom choose what data to show.
Its like Live Data in 3rd party scanner and all of it in one go.
Too bad there is no possibility to log it with CSV file like how VVT Test can, but 120 seconds only.
Last edited by S-Prihadi; 09-04-2023 at 09:24 AM.
Reason: add info
I am sure if anyone knows well enough MED177 ECM, he can do it thru software/algo or whatever the name is.
It probably has its own pressure MAP like ignition, but on a simpler scale.
Example : MB engine use calculated engine oil temperature, surely from coolant temprature + duration of engine running.
That will have small program to do this simple math.
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
I have an Autel MaxiDAS DS808 scanner and recognize the selection items other than your custom set. I wonder if I can also create custom groups. I will check tomorrow. My question is where do you find the oil pressure measurement? Is it an option in the Live Data view of the ECU? I also have a Xentry with both a C3 and C4 multiplexer. I know that is probably the best route to go, but I'd like to just get readings with the Autel scanner. I also have a LAUNCH Creader Elite Benz and an iCarsoft MB V.3. Any recommendations or thoughts? Thx!
I have an Autel MaxiDAS DS808 scanner and recognize the selection items other than your custom set. I wonder if I can also create custom groups. I will check tomorrow. My question is where do you find the oil pressure measurement? Is it an option in the Live Data view of the ECU? I also have a Xentry with both a C3 and C4 multiplexer. I know that is probably the best route to go, but I'd like to just get readings with the Autel scanner. I also have a LAUNCH Creader Elite Benz and an iCarsoft MB V.3. Any recommendations or thoughts? Thx!
That oil pressure test custom page on Xentry is only the title , our engine DOES NOT HAVE OIL PRESSURE SENSOR.
The TRUE oil pressure sensor I installed on my own, using Banks Gauge.
Read here : https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...e-project.html
yes, the whole setup does !! We are making incremental improvements one system at the time to cancel unconventional design bugs from oil, coolant, voltage...
Master Surya and myself are trained rec. DIVERS who thrive on gear reliability. We dislike chaos and enjoy exploring limits and performance under good controls.
"YOU CAN'T EXPECT WHAT YOU CAN'T INSPECT !"
Not having an oil sensor nor gauge guarantees drivers won't have an issue seeing idle oil while driving - That would be upsetting for fair minded owners!!
Same thing with Temp Gauge showing "salted data" regardless of real temperatures.
Same thing again with voltage below 12.0V....
- cheap cars used to have red warning battery light
- good cars used to have a voltmeter next to gas gauge
Here we have "mushrooms treatment : kept in the dark, ..."
We try to untangle wicked things into linear understandings.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 11-08-2023 at 04:06 PM.
Like airplanes, you really do need all that information, because you know...trouble lurks everywhere and is just poised and waiting to act the second you turn your head...
I don't like the dark unless I'm the one wearing face paint.
What are the downsides, if any, to oil pressure regulation defeat?
Please comment on your views of:
- faster oil “wear out” because of increased pumping work (shear) and exposed to more hours of high temperature
- faster oil pump wear out because of higher average system pressures and flows than designed by MB
What other downsides have you thought about, and decided that they do not overcome the benefit of oil pressure regulation defeat?
@chassis valid questions, but keep in mind MB already considered this solenoid non-essential at ALL for the 4 cylinder. I imagine there should have been an internal MB engineer asking similar set of questions before writing the TSB.
and yes, I know the next question: why are the M276/8 not listed even if they use the exact same part number?
What are the downsides, if any, to oil pressure regulation defeat?
Please comment on your views of:
- faster oil “wear out” because of increased pumping work (shear) and exposed to more hours of high temperature
- faster oil pump wear out because of higher average system pressures and flows than designed by MB
What other downsides have you thought about, and decided that they do not overcome the benefit of oil pressure regulation defeat?
Let me try to address some of these genuine concerns. Fair minded men understand this is dealing with an experimental topic. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE DON'T KNOW. Some of us are curious and like challenges. We are bound to encounter surprises good & bad.
I don't recommend anyone with itchy hands to follow us by modifying their engine. Actually the dangerous part may be backtracking - Enabling low pressure valve after it being shut may get the valve jammed by debris. Proof is worldclass Master Tasos himself got bitten! - That would peg the oil pump to low pressure only and cause catastrophic engine damage: RIP!
> Trade-in scenario:
you enjoy improved engine performance for some time and decide to trade your trouble free car.
You carefully reconnect the solenoid and erase DTC, back to near original conditions.
Couple days after transaction the engine goes boom -- TOTAL LOSS!
I dont recommend hotel swimming pool fans to strap on a tank to go cave-diving with us. It can be fun but it's never 100% safe.
> Damn the Torpedoes!
If you're a WWII Merchant Marine who can swim in shark infested waters, you can decide to get on-board for your own journey to better pastures.
> Fancy plastics:
-- I am not aware yet of what other traps we may encounter with these engines.
-- Experience has shown me that every system is built with archilles heel. I don't know what piece of plastic is going to disintegrate (coolant hoses!) when these engines still run many years after they were designed to get crushed.
-- Even stupid solenoid itself fails (TSB!) in more than one way!
-- We are going in somewhat unchartered territory. I can only share my experience as proof of possible reality - From there people can make their own individual judgement with no warranty written or implied of this being suitable for any purpose.
> Forward to Deeper End :
Cave diving is a specialty of its own because surfacing up is not an option as in "open water" diving.
I have not tested backtracking solenoid. I've only gone forward with it because I am confident in my own doings.
The fun part of the experimental journey is to study, test, discover and manage results.
> Oil life:
Chassis asked: faster oil “wear out” because of increased pumping work (shear) and exposed to more hours of high temperature ??
Oil life seems to be a clear winner with normal circulation. Once you understand the cooling/lubricating work accomplished by engine oil, you'll appreciate it not been burned black under 500.Miles.
I haven't done any statistical sampling to sustain evidence oil life improvement.
My engine quit drinking quarts of its oil vaporized through intake track... that seems to have improved crankcase pressure.
I am one that can judge fluid quality by looking at color: ATF, engine oil, DOT4. There's a world between black expresso before and milky cappuccino.
> Uncontrolled crankcase pressure:
This sounds like one great research topic for a dedicated thread. Struggle drama not my cup, I prefer comedies & adventures.
Interesting issues linked to Crankcase pressure are:
Cylinders blow-by
Blown seals leak
blown vac check-valve
blown CPS "oil-in-harness"
oil consumption
vaporized intake oil
carbonized piston rings
poor performance MAF/MAP
How to prevent and cure fixes!
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 11-20-2023 at 05:41 PM.
Reason: MS! 👍
My take is simple on will the oil pump get stressed out by running in NORMAL fashion ?
I say normal is because :
Look at reliable old cars, they have the same up to 60 PSI NORMAL oil pump..... but they do not have dual pressure control because emission and fuel economy law was not so strict back then.
Look at commercial engines ( diesel for sure ), which power those container trucks size million miles class distance, these engines emission regulation is always slower to be enforced or less strict than
passenger cars. Ask their mechanic on the existence of a oil pressure control solenoid in/on their oil pump ?
If engine is always having good oil change, no debris or particle clogging the oil strainer or worse entering the oil pump gears, oil level is always good so no cavitation of the oil pump,
oil pump is engine lifetime component.
When I say LIFETIME it means before major overhaul, for engine which can be properly rebuild with replaceable cylinder liners yada yada.
For our engine, we can't even do factory piston oversize like older engine to do 1 more useful engine life cycle.
Gasoline engine for our cars do not get the OEM replaceable cylinder liners, so piston 1 size up kit was the only way to go ( long time ago)...for ONE TIME only.
Pumping 60 psi is easy job for an oil pump if submerged all the time in clean enough oil.
08-31-2023, 08:32 AM
read as zero power )
- Now the ECU is regulating temps high enough that it has to spin fan...
)...for ONE TIME only.
