Advice request issue with transmission (shudder and red error)
10-05-2022, 03:12 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Advice request issue with transmission (shudder and red error)
Hi all,
I have a S212 E300 Hybrid from end 2013 with the 7G transmission and about 130K KM (81K miles).
Since last year the car occasionally shudders when automatically downshifting from 3th to 2th and sometimes starting from 1st.
Never though anything about it ...
This year, in april, we went on a 3 hour drive on holiday.
When we unloaded to car and got back in to find a parking spot the gears did not work and we got the red error on the dashboard: "without changing gear consult workshop"
About 10 minutes later the car worked fine again.
We went to the mercedes dealership and about 250 euro's later they checked and simple added oil to the trainsmission box since it was low.
2 months later, I got the exact same issue after 2 hours drive.
Went to another mercedes dealer in that region and, 150 euro later, they gave me a quote of 2000 euro to replace the transmission control unit.
They told me they could find errors about this and found it strange that the other mercedes dealer did not see this.
I asked around and someone suggested that only a transmission service could be enought, since it never had one.
I really don't know what my best option is to fix this problem. I already spend 400 euro and the problem has not been solved.
Should I first try the transmission service, or should I replace the transmission control unit?
Any advice more then welcome.
I have a S212 E300 Hybrid from end 2013 with the 7G transmission and about 130K KM (81K miles).
Since last year the car occasionally shudders when automatically downshifting from 3th to 2th and sometimes starting from 1st.
Never though anything about it ...
This year, in april, we went on a 3 hour drive on holiday.
When we unloaded to car and got back in to find a parking spot the gears did not work and we got the red error on the dashboard: "without changing gear consult workshop"
About 10 minutes later the car worked fine again.
We went to the mercedes dealership and about 250 euro's later they checked and simple added oil to the trainsmission box since it was low.
2 months later, I got the exact same issue after 2 hours drive.
Went to another mercedes dealer in that region and, 150 euro later, they gave me a quote of 2000 euro to replace the transmission control unit.
They told me they could find errors about this and found it strange that the other mercedes dealer did not see this.
I asked around and someone suggested that only a transmission service could be enought, since it never had one.
I really don't know what my best option is to fix this problem. I already spend 400 euro and the problem has not been solved.
Should I first try the transmission service, or should I replace the transmission control unit?
Any advice more then welcome.
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biker349 (10-08-2022)
10-05-2022, 09:46 AM
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2013 W212 E350 RWD
Hi all,
I have a S212 E300 Hybrid from end 2013 with the 7G transmission and about 130K KM (81K miles).
Since last year the car occasionally shudders when automatically downshifting from 3th to 2th and sometimes starting from 1st.
Never though anything about it ...
This year, in april, we went on a 3 hour drive on holiday.
When we unloaded to car and got back in to find a parking spot the gears did not work and we got the red error on the dashboard: "without changing gear consult workshop"
About 10 minutes later the car worked fine again.
We went to the mercedes dealership and about 250 euro's later they checked and simple added oil to the trainsmission box since it was low.
2 months later, I got the exact same issue after 2 hours drive.
Went to another mercedes dealer in that region and, 150 euro later, they gave me a quote of 2000 euro to replace the transmission control unit.
They told me they could find errors about this and found it strange that the other mercedes dealer did not see this.
I asked around and someone suggested that only a transmission service could be enought, since it never had one.
I really don't know what my best option is to fix this problem. I already spend 400 euro and the problem has not been solved.
Should I first try the transmission service, or should I replace the transmission control unit?
Any advice more then welcome.
I have a S212 E300 Hybrid from end 2013 with the 7G transmission and about 130K KM (81K miles).
Since last year the car occasionally shudders when automatically downshifting from 3th to 2th and sometimes starting from 1st.
Never though anything about it ...
This year, in april, we went on a 3 hour drive on holiday.
When we unloaded to car and got back in to find a parking spot the gears did not work and we got the red error on the dashboard: "without changing gear consult workshop"
About 10 minutes later the car worked fine again.
We went to the mercedes dealership and about 250 euro's later they checked and simple added oil to the trainsmission box since it was low.
2 months later, I got the exact same issue after 2 hours drive.
Went to another mercedes dealer in that region and, 150 euro later, they gave me a quote of 2000 euro to replace the transmission control unit.
They told me they could find errors about this and found it strange that the other mercedes dealer did not see this.
I asked around and someone suggested that only a transmission service could be enought, since it never had one.
I really don't know what my best option is to fix this problem. I already spend 400 euro and the problem has not been solved.
Should I first try the transmission service, or should I replace the transmission control unit?
Any advice more then welcome.
If you only notice shuddering between a certain cet of gears its possible that the transmission valve body has become clogged. To the extent of my knowledge; there's ports where ATF flows during gear changes, as the transmission wears these ports can collect wear material, when you remove the wear material usually the car is happy again. Also, idk if your car has it bc hybrid but check to see if you can drain the torque converter... if it even has one.
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biker349 (10-08-2022)
10-05-2022, 10:20 AM
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
Tranny acts up on LONG TRIPS...
I think your detailed account of this problem offers couple clues to help solve it.
Besides you really need to buy yourself an OBDII SCANNER to diagnose these German computers on wheels...
"This year, in april, we went on a 3 hour drive on holiday.
When we unloaded to car and got back in to find a parking spot the gears did not work and we got the red error on the dashboard: "without changing gear consult workshop"
About 10 minutes later the car worked fine again!"
> Q: Does this temporary problem only happen on LONG TRIPS. Does it ever on 20mn short trips as well or never?
> Q: When it happens you turn the key off for couple minutes then all good again? Sounds purely like a control issue glitch not mechanical.
> Q: can you pls show us tge dealer work invoice if what was diagnosed already. I am interested to see if any specific codes were retrieved at these shops.
Besides you really need to buy yourself an OBDII SCANNER to diagnose these German computers on wheels...
"This year, in april, we went on a 3 hour drive on holiday.
When we unloaded to car and got back in to find a parking spot the gears did not work and we got the red error on the dashboard: "without changing gear consult workshop"
About 10 minutes later the car worked fine again!"
> Q: Does this temporary problem only happen on LONG TRIPS. Does it ever on 20mn short trips as well or never?
> Q: When it happens you turn the key off for couple minutes then all good again? Sounds purely like a control issue glitch not mechanical.
> Q: can you pls show us tge dealer work invoice if what was diagnosed already. I am interested to see if any specific codes were retrieved at these shops.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 10-05-2022 at 10:40 AM.
10-06-2022, 03:35 AM
#4
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Thread Starter
I think your detailed account of this problem offers couple clues to help solve it.
Besides you really need to buy yourself an OBDII SCANNER to diagnose these German computers on wheels...
"This year, in april, we went on a 3 hour drive on holiday.
When we unloaded to car and got back in to find a parking spot the gears did not work and we got the red error on the dashboard: "without changing gear consult workshop"
About 10 minutes later the car worked fine again!"
> Q: Does this temporary problem only happen on LONG TRIPS. Does it ever on 20mn short trips as well or never?
> Q: When it happens you turn the key off for couple minutes then all good again? Sounds purely like a control issue glitch not mechanical.
> Q: can you pls show us tge dealer work invoice if what was diagnosed already. I am interested to see if any specific codes were retrieved at these shops.
Besides you really need to buy yourself an OBDII SCANNER to diagnose these German computers on wheels...
"This year, in april, we went on a 3 hour drive on holiday.
When we unloaded to car and got back in to find a parking spot the gears did not work and we got the red error on the dashboard: "without changing gear consult workshop"
About 10 minutes later the car worked fine again!"
> Q: Does this temporary problem only happen on LONG TRIPS. Does it ever on 20mn short trips as well or never?
> Q: When it happens you turn the key off for couple minutes then all good again? Sounds purely like a control issue glitch not mechanical.
> Q: can you pls show us tge dealer work invoice if what was diagnosed already. I am interested to see if any specific codes were retrieved at these shops.
==> The error "without changing gear" showed up 3-times, twice on a trip over 2 hours and once on a trip of 45min.
==> The shudders used to happen, before the addition of low oil, sometime on short trips like indeed 20 minutes. But like max 2 times in a month and I use the car everyday for short trips.
> Q: When it happens you turn the key off for couple minutes then all good again? Sounds purely like a control issue glitch not mechanical.
==> Yes, turn of the key, wait about 5min, all fine again... But when this happens, I did not need to drive for that day again.
> Q: can you pls show us tge dealer work invoice if what was diagnosed already. I am interested to see if any specific codes were retrieved at these shops.
==> No codes on the invoice. Only the parts they gonna change and how much they gonna cost.
What ODBII scanner do you recommend? There are allot of them out there. Does it need to be something specific? Could indeed be handy sometime.
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biker349 (10-08-2022)
10-07-2022, 02:33 AM
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Roel,
2013 to today is 9 years and add 130K KM misery.
If this car u bought used, does it have any previous service record that tranny oil + filter been replaced at least once ?
If a true 9 years old and 130K KM misery on the current oil, you best first get a proper tranny fluid replacement + filter and up to torque converter draining because the TQ itself houses 3.5ish liters from
a total of approx 9 liters the 722.9 can hold.
Roel wrote :
We went to the mercedes dealership and about 250 euro's later they checked and simple added oil to the trainsmission box since it was low.
How much tranny oil was added by the MB Dealer ?
That amount is how much the tranny oil has evaporated...yikes !!!
This tranny even for me in tropics with up to 35C ambient temperature, is operating at 80C at the most.
To boil off tranny oil at 80C is not possible, one need more heat than that.
I suggest, QUICKLY/ASAP get a proper tranny fluid replacement + filter and up to torque converter draining
WAIT WAIT WAIT : Is your engine diesel ?
https://evfleetworld.co.uk/in-detail...hybrid-system/
Transmission – The E300 BlueTEC Hybrid uses the same seven-speed 7G-Tronic Plus gearbox as the conventional E250 CDI, but without the standard car’s hydraulic torque converter. Instead, the hybrid has a wet clutch system, as found on the carmaker’s high performance AMG models, which allows the engine to be completely decoupled for electric driving.
Wow.............
2013 to today is 9 years and add 130K KM misery.
If this car u bought used, does it have any previous service record that tranny oil + filter been replaced at least once ?
If a true 9 years old and 130K KM misery on the current oil, you best first get a proper tranny fluid replacement + filter and up to torque converter draining because the TQ itself houses 3.5ish liters from
a total of approx 9 liters the 722.9 can hold.
Roel wrote :
We went to the mercedes dealership and about 250 euro's later they checked and simple added oil to the trainsmission box since it was low.
How much tranny oil was added by the MB Dealer ?
That amount is how much the tranny oil has evaporated...yikes !!!
This tranny even for me in tropics with up to 35C ambient temperature, is operating at 80C at the most.
To boil off tranny oil at 80C is not possible, one need more heat than that.
I suggest, QUICKLY/ASAP get a proper tranny fluid replacement + filter and up to torque converter draining
WAIT WAIT WAIT : Is your engine diesel ?
https://evfleetworld.co.uk/in-detail...hybrid-system/
Transmission – The E300 BlueTEC Hybrid uses the same seven-speed 7G-Tronic Plus gearbox as the conventional E250 CDI, but without the standard car’s hydraulic torque converter. Instead, the hybrid has a wet clutch system, as found on the carmaker’s high performance AMG models, which allows the engine to be completely decoupled for electric driving.
Wow.............
Last edited by S-Prihadi; 10-07-2022 at 02:37 AM.
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10-07-2022, 02:47 AM
#7
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
There you go....
>
Q1: Does this temporary problem only happen on LONG TRIPS. Does it ever on 20mn short trips as well or never?
==> The error "without changing gear" showed up 3-times, twice on a trip over 2 hours and once on a trip of 45min.
==> The shudders used to happen, before the addition of low oil, sometime on short trips like indeed 20 minutes. But like max 2 times in a month and I use the car everyday for short trips.
> Q2: When it happens you turn the key off for couple minutes then all good again? Sounds purely like a control issue glitch not mechanical.
==> Yes, turn of the key, wait about 5min, all fine again... But when this happens, I did not need to drive for that day again.
> Q3: can you pls show us the dealer work invoice if what was diagnosed already. I am interested to see if any specific codes were retrieved at these shops.
==> No codes on the invoice. Only the parts they gonna change and how much they gonna cost.
What ODBII scanner do you recommend? There are allot of them out there. Does it need to be something specific? Could indeed be handy sometime.
Q1: Does this temporary problem only happen on LONG TRIPS. Does it ever on 20mn short trips as well or never?
==> The error "without changing gear" showed up 3-times, twice on a trip over 2 hours and once on a trip of 45min.
==> The shudders used to happen, before the addition of low oil, sometime on short trips like indeed 20 minutes. But like max 2 times in a month and I use the car everyday for short trips.
> Q2: When it happens you turn the key off for couple minutes then all good again? Sounds purely like a control issue glitch not mechanical.
==> Yes, turn of the key, wait about 5min, all fine again... But when this happens, I did not need to drive for that day again.
> Q3: can you pls show us the dealer work invoice if what was diagnosed already. I am interested to see if any specific codes were retrieved at these shops.
==> No codes on the invoice. Only the parts they gonna change and how much they gonna cost.
What ODBII scanner do you recommend? There are allot of them out there. Does it need to be something specific? Could indeed be handy sometime.
Tranny gets disrupted under specific circumstances and throughs messages, reportedly without codes.
> Based on your answers:
I believe it is not the jamed gear selector module. I am leaning towards the long trip dismal voltage.
> Why is that :
Q1: It only happen on long trips
Q2: Restarting the car clears the trouble
Q3: No fault codes were directly logged.
Q1/2/3: make it not a I/DSM.
Q1/2/3: make it low voltage candidate.
Our friend Master @S-Prihadi is a yoyo hero. He knows a whole lot about this condition first hand. We coined the name yoyo together in reference to what bad voltage regulatoon does.
> Suggestions:
- Use an OBDII fault scanner
- ATF tranny service
- Monitor cluster voltage on long trips
Popular scanners are iCarSoft, Autel and Xentry being the best.
Seek evidence to guide your assumptions to prevent jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions blindly.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 10-07-2022 at 11:21 AM.
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