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I been wanting to do this "foam" change for the wires on my overhead light/pano roof control assy.
When I tightened and loc-tite-ded my pano roof in Jan 2021, I saw the foam for the cables are breaking down.
Some months ago at rare and if at the right circumstance, I can hear the super low level resonance from the cables...like low level humming.
Easy, I touch the light/pano switch assy plastic body and the humming will go away. So it is cable the culprit !!!
So today I decided to fix this light/pano switch assy noise and also do some preventiopn of flexing plastic noise from 1 of the 3 of the under carriage covers ( protection ).
WHEN IT WAS, in 2021
Today, 2nd Oct 2022
I use this aquarium filter pad. Its like foam sheet, I mean it can cushion cable and is made of plastic fiber.
This type :
Damn, I forgot to turn ON date and time stamp on my camera !!!!
Below is first area of interest, prone to the cable humming from vibration. Stuff the filter pad #1 there first and its long, I pushed the filter pad deep inside.
Full filter pad coverage, so cables can no more touch steel part of roof
From the mirror, there are 2 cables. 1 is radio antena and 1 is surely for the twin dot reading lights and probably rear view mirror dimming feature.
Original foam of the mentioned cables , 2nd photo of this post, the year 2021. No more air bubbles and is turning to dust.
So I replaced it with HVAC insulation foam 3mm x 2 layer
3rd piece filter pad stuffing....... and antena interconnect also get it
Now, this Batman shape plastic for tranny water splash cover, when installed, it is touching the thick metal protector plate.
If you knock on this plastic cover, it will make ugly noise as it will be vibrating and hitting the metal plate.
So, on bad roads this plastic plate can make noise.
You can try yourself by pounding on the plastic cover just a tiny bit and you will be surprised.
PS - This plastic is weird. It absorb oil, funny. That dark patch is my engine oil leaking a tiny bit from bad copper gasket of drain plug. That stain can not be cleaned no matter what I use.
3mm HVAC insulation foam on all screwed down areas. Total 8.
Now, the real noise maker zone. 8mm hvac insulation foam, but me got to glue it down with special glue.... messy job.
The aluminum foil is just for chaffe protection for the 8mm foam, because the foam smooth surface is kinda fragile.
Anything to do with glueing and cutting, me so bad at it.....LOL. It does looks ugly, but it works
Now no more the irritating plastic flutter noise when I hammer with my hand the Batman plastic cover or the steel plate.
Surya, while you have OCP and Batman out, it's a good idea to lubricate the worm gear for the roof gear mechanism.
Sorry I dont know the super pano specifics, only the regular roof is assembled to get stuck in place with evaporated lube and soft gear drive. Lubrication of the long coil is the way out this predicament with smooth motion. The rail tracks are nice to keep clean, personally I focus on lubricating the HIGH FRICTION of the spring-like channel.
✌️
Dang.... and thanks Cali now my itchy finger list has 1 extra toy to mess with ,
I don't open my sunroof much, in fact very rare while car is on the road. Jakarta ambient dust and vehicle smog will kill me.
For those who wants to open up any black fleece like liner at the trunk, please know that the plastic clip/rivet MB uses is basically a 1 TIME USE only, if you seek virgin tight rivet like new , which can reduce rattle too.
I am lucky, locally some cheap Honda, Mitsubishi , Nissan and Toyota for developing countries uses same dimension re-useable clip/rivet like below : https://www.ebay.com/itm/313404857415
Above are casualty during replacement of rear dampers
Below one is a Toyota one.
I bought many types from Japanese cars, for back up sake and so far they been very helpful.
===========================
OK now the foam replacement on trunk PULL-WIRE.
Fuse F61 40 amps removed. That is for the power-trunk-motor .
I was under the asumption that this black big box is sunshade unit, but no.... it is power trunk motor unit...dang !!! Or maybe combo unit ? I dont really care now.
All I see is that it has 2 PULL WIRES going to trunk lid U shape hinges.
For those who wants to see how a naked trunk lid looks like to see components and wires...... here u go
Please ignore the two test leads color yellow and blue. That is for my test.
This is the MANUAL KEY slot. Note, the torx screw can not be tightened till it locked-stop like how screws are. There must be a reason, but me lazy to find out why.
That screw is like tigthening a locking ring.
So the pull cable starts there at this MANUAL KEY slot/mechanism.
Without battery power, you spin it with your car REAL KEY and the trunk latch will open.
The connector going into is very likely for sensing position and not for powering a motor. See the DOT at the connector below.
The handle you use manually to open the trunk, that one is actually an electrical switch. So the locking latch has two mode of input. Pure mechanical by PULL-WIRE and electric cable for its own internal solenoid to open latch.
The LATCH
The rear lights portion attached to the trunk lid, as seen below :
===================
Since I do not want to remove the MANUAL KEY SLOT for fear I might dislodged something and working space so tight, I tried to remove the PULL-WIRE from the latch, but I decided not to, because I tried a bit and gave up. I don't want to break anyhthing Me rough and stupid for how plastic stuff are rigged and interlocked. So me just cut/slit the new foam hose. I am using HVAC copper pipe insulation foam... one can't get more robust foam than the HVAC one heheheheh
That's all folks....
Damn...... if my door has cable rattle or cable minor humming/resonance noise, I am a dead man. I never work with real aluminum rivets before.
If you are unlucky as me where your car is assembled, where MB Indonesia for LAZY reason, only drill 2 screw holes instead of 4, hence only 2 screws used.
Or maybe this is dealer's duty ?
The licence plate holder will produce rattle sound so cheapo when you use your hand to close the trunk manually.
Also when on bad road it will make noise too for sure as the female thread port #3 and #4 will hit the plastic licence plate holder.
I tried using double side tape for #3 & #4 so that less noise, but still no good as this plastic licence plate holder is not rigid, so it will flex and make noise eventually.
I am waiting for new stainless steel screws, I will use all 4 SS screws.
I should have done this a long time ago but me been lazy.....
Benz leaky cam. sensors are a smart problem waiting for your awesome study and a singular fix.
You understand well the multiple style of connectors and capillarity through them.
How can Master Surya retire MB strugle with oil in connectors ?
New sensors have the same issue
Pigtails may or may not be available or efficient
It's more than just cams only
Cali, Itchy-Fingers Associate.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 11-06-2022 at 02:56 PM.
The core of the problem is obvious, the resin used to waterproof or/and insulate the interior towards the exterior of the sensor and around the male pins seems to be not oil resistant long term.
However I was thinking :
01. Are the majority of the "victims" turbocharged engines ?
02. Related to no 01, I wish someone have measured their crankcase pressure when they have the leaking cam position sensor.
I suspect mild leaking check valve of the PCV can speed up the leaking of camshaft sensor, because now the entire engine crankcase is in boost mode.
Low boost but still higher than normal pressure.
BOATS
Pipe fittings ( metal, brass usually ) embedded in resin for fuel tank application, have proved that some years later the bonding between the fiberglass resin ( usually polyster resin ) and the brass fitting
will fail. It wont crack open, but mild fuel leaking do happen. This is for fitting under the tank, which means always has fuel and is pressurized by the height of the fuel level in the tank.
So what I do for my co-owned boat which uses fiberglass tanks (4) , I can not parallel the main LEFT and RIGHT tanks or the auxillary tanks too, because I can't have that fitting under the tank.
I also can not do fuel suction from bottom of tank, must do suction from top of the tank.
If one is willing to see oil seepage at sensor as WARNING but with least potential of capillary action of oil into wire harness and then to ECM, there are 2 simple mod we can do.
AA. Remove the male connector body seal.
BB. Drill oil weep hole at cam position sensor connector receiving region, at 6 o'clock. So that any oil leak is detected fast.
The AA seal is rather high up, so doing BB even not removing AA seal is okey.
NOTE : Sorry, I drew only 2 pins on green for the cam pos sensor, it should be 3 pins.
My thinking is, capillary alone is not possible to wet out wire harness.
Here is why. Male pins of sensor is mated to female pin of connector. These two metals can not transfer oil in capillary mode.
Copper wire if it indeed can do capillary oil transfer is not because copper is like a candle's wick, it is because of the air void between copper strands to copper stands and the PVC jacket.
So the wire is actually like a mini hose or semi-clogged hose, but still can transfer liquid as long as there is enough pressure or pressure difference.
So when we do AA or BB option, we remove the pressure mechanism.
Thats my hypothesis
Still, the cam pos sensor if its resin is not oil resistant long term, leaky oil will forever be an issue but at least cheaper damage.
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Remember my tranny Batman shaped water splash cover which I told you I can't remove the engine oil stain ?
This is an example that some plastic are not 100% oil proof.
Great stuff, love AA and BB. Now you got me thinking about the PVC jacket acting as a hose with pressure difference...
I think the heat-cool cycles may be involved in helping the capilarity with a sort of pumping effect.
At the end of the day not one single solution is the fix but a series of countermeasures implemented all at once.
--> CC: Seal the entry opening in the insulator to prevent any liquid oil migrating inside the jacket.
The wire strends act as guides and the tiny in-between gap act as feed.
What's a high-temp seal that sticks well and does not expends so much ?? I have used a specialty high-temp epoxy before - Let me find it.
Great stuff, love AA and BB. Now you got me thinking about the PVC jacket acting as a hose with pressure difference...
I think the heat-cool cycles may be involved in helping the capilarity with a sort of pumping effect.
At the end of the day not one single solution is the fix but a series of countermeasures implemented all at once.
-- AA: loose the pressure seal
-- BB: Weeping drain hole at the lowest point for gravity to help drain out👍
--> CC: Seal the entry opening in the insulator to prevent any liquid oil migrating inside the jacket.
The wire strends act as guides and the tiny in-between gap act as feed.
- 1: jacket crimp - 2: wire crimp
Jacket seal:
What's a high-temp seal that sticks well and does not expends so much ?? I have used a specialty high-temp epoxy before - Let me find it.
Wires seal:
Traditionally it is best soldered after crimping. Remarkably many heavy MB connectors use solder(*) to lower adding serial resistance to junction as it ages (*: everywhere except solderless opportunities).
--DD: renewing knowned bad units :
Cam position sensors
Cam solenoids
Oil pump plug-in
... other bad ones?
-- EE: sealing the connector male pins with high-temps glue before oil is let out.
It is very difficult to seal copper cable strands from them oil, because the way the male and female connector is designed and by crimping method.
If the connector MALE and FEMALE pin is like Deustch one it is easier to solder and then expoxy them, but with epoxy they wont be removeable later on from the connector.
These MALE/FEMALE pins the barrel where we crimp or solder the wire is not connected to the front part.
It is like an enclosed tube. It has a weep hole, yes, but soldering them can shut that hole
Dang......The Indonesian licence plate is Police Issued ( DMV here is owned by Police force ).
It is made from thin tin can plate, el-cheapo. The plate will flutter.
So 4 screws instead of 2, solved the whipping effect of licence plate holder to female stud.
3mm HVAC foam solved the flutter/whipping of the el-cheapo thin licence plate towards the plastic holder.
Hhhmmm, so this was one of the reason too for those super low decibel but irritating noise.
I guess mine has developed the crack at the clip point ( marked in green ) but the piece has not drop off yet till today , when I re-inspected that plastic cover of rain sensor.
Will be orrdering a new plastic cover. The plastic is so cheapo brittle.
Below left photo, a proper clip Vee shape if not broken. Right photo below, the broken piece I marked in green at 1st photo ( above ).
for the wire connector - anyone tried cramming as much dielectric grease in there as you can to take up all the space oil could seep into so as to force the oil somewhere else?
dielectric grease is made for electrical connections to help keep them water proof, fight corrosion and keep crap out of connectors.
It does not conduct electricity the pins and sockets in the connector do that and are designed make contact whether you use the grease or not.
If the connector pins and socket are loose enough that dielectric grease prevents a circuit, then they are problem without using the grease since hitting bumps could make the connection open and close contact.
I think this would work as it would keep oil out over long term; might need to refresh yearly but - tis a cheap fix
dielectric grease is made for electrical connections to help keep them water proof, fight corrosion and keep crap out of connectors.
It does not conduct electricity the pins and sockets in the connector do that and are designed make contact whether you use the grease or not.
If the connector pins and socket are loose enough that dielectric grease prevents a circuit, then they are problem without using the grease since hitting bumps could make the connection open and close contact.
I thought I explained to you in a much simpler way
Originally Posted by ygmn
If the connector pins and socket are loose enough that dielectric grease prevents a circuit, then they are problem without using the grease since hitting bumps could make the connection open and close contact.
I think this would work as it would keep oil out over long term; might need to refresh yearly but - tis a cheap fix
Have you ever tear-down a cam position sensor Heirschmann connector ? I have.
If you want the di-eletric grease to be only at the very end of the copper strand , which is the crimped part of the female terminal, you need to tear down the connector and appy it there ONLY.
If you think you can just coat the connector with di-elecric grease while connector is DETACHED from sensor, the male and female terminals will be grease contaminated when connector engaged again.
Di-electric grease is a thick liquid and not solid like epoxy and oil can overcome it more so when in hot temperature, because oil capillary action in wires has "pressure" assisting its flow.
Just spend some $$ every so many thousand miles and years and take it as a service item to replace those sensors/devices prones to pumping out the engine oil.
Or use the extension wire+connector and get rid of the sealing capability of the extension connector so that oil will drip out of the connector and can't proceed to ECM.
Oil itself is generally an electrical insulator, however used engine oil is not a virgin (special) oil capable of insulating electricity like say an oil filled transformer or oil filled capacitors or oil filled dive computers.
Yes, my dive computer is oil filled and the chips are bathing in oil and that is as waterproof as one can get for a dive computer, zero differential pressure between internal to external aka sea water at 100 meters or 11 ATM.
Used oil has the contamination which conducts electricity to some extend and that is when our computers goes bananas.
Oil into wire harness is not an MB thing, it is an issue with many other cars too.
I know its a pain to spend $$ in prevention of oil seepage into wiring harness, but it is what it is at the moment and its at least a 5 years
and/or above 50,000 miles issue I believe.
Think of them sensors like a nice set of US$200-ish a piece tire with 40,000* miles life ( not possible for me ), there is a fix life on it.
Surya, this is just a friendly tease, mind you, but...
Do you have two Mercedes-Benzes, one for driving and one for dissection? It seems that you have this car continuously in bits and pieces!
All the extensive research projects are wonderful, and well appreciated. But I do wonder when you have time to actually drive (or ride) in this car, hehe...
, since my daughter left for study out of the country, the E400 is 100% driven by me and I rarely go out nowadays.
Only 1 MB car.
Every other weekend is when probably I will go to my friend's personal marina and hang out and drink.
If I need to go out where traffic jam is bad or to the mall, I use my driver and the Toyota Corolla Cross, rarely I would want drive myself for a trip I can't WOT my engine.
I am basically retired, well sort of. So I got all the time in the world.
I do take out the car as often as possible for her exercise, which is once a week at the most, that new highway where I can do 125MPH with ease and do lots of WOT 6,200 RPM.
This year I did take her to the track for fun but did not push too hard like I did in 2020.
This is why I like driving to Bali so much, because I then can do long distance run, once a year .
But I hate the ferry ride because my exhaust system get rubbed by the ferry ramp when at low tide.
This year me won't drive to Bali, I will fly because the rainy season will peak up to February 2023 and this year lots of floods.
MB with so much electronics can't take any flood almost touching the car floor, which means it can do very shallow flood only.
This 2022 my car has done only under 2,000KM since I got back from Bali Nov 2021.
That is why this year I "raped" my car more often, because she is also an exercise machine for me.
Since Covid beginning, is the trigger actually that I decided to use her as an exercise machine both muscle wise and brain wise.
I hand wash her once a week or after a rainy use, so that my carpa-tunnel wrist-hand get good exercise, and my back too from squatting and standing up.
When I said hand wash I really mean fingers wash first before using foam and soap. I learnt this from owning once a black car, micro scratch can be much reduced.
Believe it or not, I know every stone ding on my car, no matter how small...LOL.
Because I needed 3 hours to wash the car and dry it and with minor interior vacuuming, it is good on my blood sugar level, keep it low.
Of late, mechanically I do this and that on the E400 as I got to know the car better and felt more comfortable, so I got more excuses to produce sweat
In fact my wife kept complaining everytime she saw the car on the Quick Jack 50cm off the floor more often than me using it.... ha ha ha.
I get bored when I don't dismantle something.
While in Bali, I also do preventive work on the villa, electrical stuff mainly and the Reverse Osmosis and the small pool. Villa is 800 meters from the sea and air is very salty and wet at some months with high winds.
For electric work I am quite a freak and that Bali villa is where I released most of what I wanted as a super easy to work and to troubleshoot electrical panel and wiring system.
I have total of 9 electrical panels in a villa of only 400 square meters land size. With 250+ circuit breakers/RCBO. 1 wall outlet 1 dedicated wire run and its own 4 or 6 or 10 amps MCB/RCBO, no sharing.
Indoor lights, maximum of 6 lights if under 20 watts, star wiring configuration for the lights wiring splice not daisy chain which is not so robust, 1 wire feed, 1 of 2 amps MCB or 6 amps RCBO for it.
Specific to outdoor lights at car-port and mini garden, 1 light 1 wire run, 1 RCBO for it, no sharing.
All my indoor wires are outdoor grade wires I use. Cheaper in the longe run in terms of insulation quality-stability.
I am on a 3 phase 230/400V system, so each room will have 3 phases I will appoint their uses for different loads, safer this way from partial phase failure and better even loading of all the 3 phases.
The only 3 phase device in my villa is the Reverse Osmosis.
I spent a ton of money to get my electrical ground at under 3 ohms value.
Have to call a deep well specialist to make a hole for my thick copper rods pushed down to 27 meters underground and 1 more of 8 meters.
Lots of limestone under the villa, hence soil resistance is quite high for a typical Bali land.
I have a swimming pool in Jakarta but I don't like exercising for the sake of exercising, so when I do use my pool, I use my scuba gear and a vacuum pump (water pump) and a tooth brush,
and I clean all the tiles grouts ... hahahaha, 4 hours minimum.
Basically, I am itchy handed, that is me.
I stopped diving and serious yacht troubleshooting and my itchy hands need to find new avenue.
Wonderful story, Surya. I enjoyed reading it very much. Indeed we are all getting older and must find things to keep us active and reasonably fit.
Your words inspire me to change the oil on my car as soon as the filter shipment from FCP Euro arrives. Meantime I will take the dog for a long walk, LOL.
we use it all the time offshore on Deutsch, weatherpack, etc connectors
Explosion proof ones and normal.
We do it so we can take them apart.
Yes we cram it in on the pins to keep them coated and away from elements and corrosion and drill mud and other chemicals.
Has on effect on conductivity since the pins are designed to be used with dielectric greae.
The job of the grease is to seal the connection and make..
I do not know this MB connector issue at all other then peps saying they get oil in the connector and it ruins somthing.
I believe the sound is not from the door "hitting" the seat at its mating surface, but the latch is the noise maker.
So by adding a bit extra padding on the seat side, the latch becomes a bit under tension and the noise gone.
I was tempted to silence the latch "hook" mechanism , but it is plastic and its quite a unique shape , I fear it may break if I dampened it and it loose its springy-ness.
Break from wrong plastic hook parking position when I slammed the door shut. When you guys play with it, you will know what I mean.
11-02-2022, 03:47 PM
thin licence plate towards the plastic holder.
