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Who the hell came up with such a name as CAN BUS ERROR FREE or CAN BUS ready yada yada....
This is not about CAN BUS, this is about how smart or dumb or choosy bastarzd the modules controlling these T10 incandescent bulbs will fight us when we replace it with a LED unit.
The suitable name would be Warning Free or Error Free T10 LED bulb for modern cars with light bulb diagnostic capability.
Well, while I was doing noise prevention on my overhead console panel : https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ml#post8662288
I tested how hot the T10 are. I want to get rid of any heat source near electronics board if I can.
Something is ODD, the two bulbs at the OCP is a 6watt label T10, while the vanity mirror ones and glove box and rear trunk / boot (2 on the sides) and front foot well (2) are all 5 watts Toshiba.
The almost 6 watt bulb is cooler too... don't ask me how and why.
The above test is closer to actual because I am using the original plastic bulb holder ( poor heat transfer ), but still not 100% as actual..... as there is abundant air-space during the test,
unlike its original location tucked inside the unit below is a more for heat nightmare.
Below is cooler, because the alligator clips copper acts as cooling fin. 5W = 146C and 5.58W = 126C unique indeed.
My driver's door floor light has the highest running hours than any other doors, naturally.
Look at its condition, damn....give it some more hours and it will be like my friend's C200 W204 T10 bulb at his headlight.
This is a door, how hot can my door be ?
No brand, but also a 5 watt for Right Front Door
Now testing how cool or hot can T10 LED be ?
China made, USD 50 cents each only , no brand. I custom made the cooling fin-rod . This is the only el-cheapos china made which is under 100C temperature during use. I bought 3 types.
Look..., 14C cooler with my DIY cooling rods.
Next day I got branded ones and I am so happy when I saw a 4000K color temperature the item #2. I hate anything 5000K or higher, not nice, not soothing. Like my LED ILS headlight....gives me bad mood.
1 is Osram. 6000K. Special poor/developing countries market only. I got it locally. This is a better spec info https://www.ebay.com/itm/384861585077
US$5.5 a pair. Sold as pair.
#X China made spade shape with my DIY cooling rods. No Polarity.
#1 Osram 6000K, with steel head cooling. Has Polarity.
#2 Phillips 4000K, series 6000. No Polarity.
#3 Phillips 6000K, series 3000. Has Polarity.
Which modules have I tested ? 01. REAR SAM - King of choosy bastarzd. Does not like any of the branded LEDs, only like #X China made spade shape.
Some reviewers claimed that VW module will read bulbs resistance and some other cars may read amperage.
Honestly until I find something else branded at 1.55 watt the same as #X China spade shape, I believe REAR SAM decides to trigger DTC based on amperage/watts.
If 6000K color temperature LED T10 is the only option for a particular module, surely I would choose #1 Osram 6000K ( 1.29 watt ) for its proper cooling system.
T10 at 4,000K color temperature is VERY hard to find. Me lucky with that Phillips.
REAR SAM - TRUNK. So far only the Left and Right side lights, easiest to remove.
The DTC as follows
==================
02. RIGHT FRONT DOOR module. For now I am assuming all doors will have the same protocol.
Does not accept #1 Osram 6000K and #3 Phillips 6000K. But thanks Heaven, it will accept #2 Phillips 4000K. For interior, I have to stick to 4000K.
Since this #2 Phillips LED chips are rather uniquely placed for the sides and the shape of the door's light housing relies on 360 degrees type filament, me DIY a reflector from 3M aluminum tape ... LOL
03. FRONT SAM - For Interior.
This module is so friendly it will take ALL 4 types of LED I have, sweet !!!!!!!
NOTE : I have not access rear passenger 2 reading lights round shape which is supposedly also a T10 and the middle general one which is supposedly a festoon type bulb.
I have tried the Phillips 4000K for OCP twin lights, front foot well (2) and glove box are circuits all welcoming. The review dimming mirror, there is no way I can change the twin DOT reading light, so that one will untouched.
The more reason a 4000K T10 is needed as any higher color temperature will make car interior brown leather look and feel bad.
So, naturally interior will get ONLY 4000K Phillips.
2 for OCP. 4 for foot well. 4 for doors ground light. 1 for glove box. 2 for rear reading lights. Total 13 of T10.
Testing FRONT SAM for Inteior Lights
Roof = OCP lights
I will update again when I have tested/access all T10 I can replace without DTC.
The Left and Right lamp as I explained earlier, will only accept the #X China spade shape LED and none others and that is 1.55 watts, no polarity.
I am curious, if the Phillips 4000K which is 0.77 watts 2 of them in parallel which will be 1.54 watts will that be OK ?..... assuming amperage was how the Rear SAM define DTC.
Above : 2 of Phillips 4000K of 0.77 watt in parallel.
NOPE, even with similar No Polarity type LED and now equal amperage, Rear SAM doesn't like it.
So me try for fun, combination of 1 of #X China spade shape 1.55watt and 1 of Phillips 4000K 0.77watt , BELOW :
No DTC for above set up.
I then try using 3 LED, all in parallel. 1 of #X china spade shape and 2 of phillips 6000K of 0.51 watt. So total these 3 is 2.57 watts. Also no DTC.
Still curious, I tested a different combo.
1 of #X china spade shape 1.55watt as no 1
and 1 of phillips 6000K of 0.51 watt as no 2
and 1 of Osram 6000K 1.29Watt as no 3. Again, NO DTC.
The key is, the #X china spade shape LED must be in the circuit. It is not amperage based diagnostic it seems.
===============================
Now the trunk door single light. This is where it get crazy. ALL the LEDS does not work here, all produce DTC !!!
Why is the supposedly the same rear SAM bulb diagnostic , but behave different ?
This bulb is called : E40 Trunk lid ambient lamp if under ACTUAL VALUES
However, in DTC this E40 bulb ID is called as below.
Why the hell not use the same E40 bulb ID and the same description as in ACTUAL VALUES section ?
This is the update for today......... 1 bulb at trunk will stay hot , cant use cooler LED.
Last edited by S-Prihadi; 11-05-2022 at 12:05 AM.
Reason: ADD INFO
Bloody hell........... both Rear Door modules DOES NOT LIKE ANY LED !!!
I don't understand why both FRONT DOOR modules can accept at least Phillips 4000K, series 6000, 0.77 watt, while the rear CAN'T.
Why different protocol ?
So I sticked with the orginal incandescent T10 but applied 3M alu foil for better reflection and hopefully reduce heat yelllowing disease the plastic may suffer
===================
The rear reading lights Left and Right can accept Phillips 4000K, series 6000, 0.77 watt same as front OCP light.
At least some good news.
I did not yet change the middle festoon bulb yet , as the bulb seller sent me a wrong 30mm length one instead of 38mm.
They have the 4000K color temperature, at least that is good news. Hope seller has in stock the 38mm length festoon.
1 is 4000K and 2 is original incandescent which will be usually 3,000K color temp.
=========================
I just realized 2 things on my 2014 facelift.
The reading light double dots at rear view mirror is actually a LED, its color temperature is a give away at first when I took a closer look and the NOT HOT is another dead give away.
Probably the double dot reading light is a 5500K color temp
Power consumption of the 2 dots both running is :
=================================
The rear licence plate light is also already a LED, I think it is to match the LED tail light my facelift 2014 got as standard.
FOOT WELL LIGHT, this is a bit different behaviour if all 4 are using LED, the 4000K phillips.
Lets call this light : FWL
FWL actually uses a slow ON or ramping up power and when turning OFF it is also a ramping down power.
So it is not the common immediate ON-OFF or OFF-ON state.
If all 4 FWL are the LEDs, there are times powering UP will be a 3 second delay. Not all the time, but sometime and under the right circumstances.
I think this is because of the LED driver characteristic, it wont power up until voltage is sufficient at "X" level.
Me actually wanted to probe the power output with a scope, but I hate working where my head is low on the floor and I need to peek up, that makes me head spinning
Anyway here is a ramping down to OFF state, below 2 dark images.
This is the scene zone in the video screen capture , for reference.
LEFT is still a T10 incasdecent bulb, RIGHT is Phillips 4000K LED
Below is probably less than 6 volts to those FWL bulbs.
So this very dim condition will eventually be zero power and total darkness in approx 7 seconds after door closed.
So the ramping down power is much slower than the ramping up power.
Some LEDs may flicker when being ramped down or up.
For color temperature differences better view, see the photo below
Most importantly no DTC for all 4 Foot Well Lights.
Even if there is a DTC, it probably will never make it to be displayed on instrument cluster as warning or Engine Check Light equivalent urgency.
My LIN disconnect to alternator is never broadcasted by any modules as warning on instrument cluster , let alone an Engine Check Light but is readable as a mild fault ( Small f and not capital F in Xentry. F = fault ) when using Xentry or decent scanner .
==============================
Back to the trunk....
I will be doing 2 things. ONE............. I am waiting for a T10 of 3.4 watts, for Honda motorbike speedometer backlight. Smaller watt is better, cooler.
I have tested parallel connection of the original incandescent T10 of 5 watt label to the Phillips 6000K of 0.55 watts and there is no DTC.
So what I can do is, use the soon to come 3.4watts** T10 incandescent ( **from Honda motorbike speedometer ) and place it nicely but HIDDEN in a much better ventilated part of the trunk lid/door, and the so very cool running Phillips 6000K of 0.55 watt be inside
the original light housing. Total Power wise I still win approx 1 watt savings, compared to MB 5 watt Toshiba bulb ( 4.93 watt ) but getting heat away from the light housing is the big bonus. Then... all 3 trunk lights will be close to 6,000K color temp.
The Phillips 6000K is also good for beam projection/spread above is round cone.
Yes yes yes.... the foam which covers/insulate the trunk latch/lock pull wire will break into dust if I squeeze it. It need to be replaced or else mild whipping noise can occur on bad roads.
The whipping noise would be where I marked the area, there the pull wire is touching the metal plate of the trunk lid/door and the foam is the cushion.
At 7 - 8 years , actually these foam will crumbled to dust when squeezed.
==========================
TWO
The last 2 trips to Bali, my trunk was VERY full and QUITE full.
The light from the 2 sides bulbs can not spread out due to being block by luggages.
So, what I will do is, each side light will be parralled to 2 of Phillips 6000K T10 LED which I will place it below the bulkhead where the subwoofer and the power-blind is at.
That bulkhead can not get any uglier and messier than it is now .....LOL and 4 extra small T10 LED bulbs won't be visible.
Imagine if this bulkhead is at our eye level, what a sore eye it will bring
There then, I will have proper lightning even when luggages are plenty
One need to see close up the DIY-ness of the bulb and its socket mounted method into those holes ... LOL
BULB 2
BULB 1
But wiring and safety is top class and far above MB wiring in the car.
01. Spliced is crimped with ferrule and soldered after crimping.
02. Tripple layer of heat shrink tube, to be safe. And layered again later with 3M Super 88 electrical tape.
03. The new light set is removeable, that Deutsch connector is for that. The small black connector that is for the MB original light.
04. FUSED. 1 amp mini ATC for each side extra lights (2 bulb).
White foam for noise prevention is aquarium filter pad ....
Wire harness, from fuse to the bulbs
Bulb 2, wiring.
I just bought this clear tape for door guard. The sticky side is very good stick and the exposed side is so slippery. This is good for wire install like above photo, if not for door ding protection.... hahaha.
Making the wire harness ( all joints soldered ) , the wiring run and soldering, is the most time consuming.
I hate soldering in the trunk, me body ached all over.
I love these studs on the car.
So useful for cable ties securing wires.....
Without these studs which exist even under the car covered by the long sound shield Left and Right.....running thermocouple wires to Differential, Tranny and Rear Brake Caliper and securing it will be tough.
I REALLY love these studs !!!!!
The Honda bike speedometer T10 3.4Watt bulb is so cool running at <65C even at 40 ish minutes...awesome !!!
3.22 watt if at 14 volt
This Honda 3.4Watt is by Stanley. NO DTC for trunk lid. No DTC for rear door exit light.... yeahhh !!
So rear doors will get this T10 bulb too. I bought only 2, so for trunk lid and rear-right door first.
===============================================
Trunk extra lights (4) completed.
Color Rendering Test of the Phillips 6000K. Not bad at all.
So, I finally got a DTC from N10/1 front SAM, in regards to Front Footwell T10 LED bulbs
This is what happened :
I never lock my car when parked at home.
If car computer modules have all slept ( K2 relay disengaged ) I noticed that when I open the door, the footwell light will not power up and sometimes may blink. Key fob is a distant away from CAR and basically can't communicate to car.
The footwell light will be ON when and if I have the key in ignition slot.
I do not set any interior lights to be ON when door is opened.
So I guess sometimes when Front SAM does its bulbs integrity check, ONLY under the condition mentioned above, Front SAM define the difference between incandescent T10 and a LED T10 electrical characteristic as something wrong and
hence DTC is triggered. Once key in ignition slot, LED T10 power up, the DTC then goes away and became STORED.
I will do a test if possible, by changing the milliamps value of open load* ( *something like that ) I seen in Front SAM variant coding data with the Launch Creader Elite for Benz, to be low enough to suit the LED T10 in use. https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...onal-more.html
I think I saw 360 milliamps as the open load. 0.360A x 12V is still 4.32 watts and that is too high for the LEDs being used where the Phillips are only 0.77 watts for the 4000K color temperature.
I will report back when I have done the experiment. Hopefully it can be done successfully.
NO CAN'T DO, to reduce the FRB-Open-Load for footwell bulb.
The available options are too high and too low aka no blown bulb warning if zero miiliamps.
FBR means Fußraumbeleuchtung or FootWell Light in German. I just googled forums ...LOL
It is quite unique that it is called OPEN LOAD for power consumption.
I would think Running Load would be the more accurate term.
Did you find any T10 LED bulbs that would work in the foot wells without triggering codes ?
Looks like you got pretty deep into the heat generation aspect of the T10 LED bulbs.
Thanks in advance.
The LED bulb I use, the Phillips, it still does produce DTC once in a while. I never bother changing to any other LED.
The problem seems to be from the way the auto dimming of foot well bulbs are done, the LED can't be dimmed in traditional way an INCAN bulb can.
So the Front SAM will declare it is faulty because it is not seeing proper load during the dimming process.
There is nothing I can do and I will not add resistor to them LEDs.... No way.
I will someday replace all 4, probably with Honda's 3 watt INCAN bulb to simply reduce heat.
The LED bulb I use, the Phillips, it still does produce DTC once in a while. I never bother changing to any other LED.
The problem seems to be from the way the auto dimming of foot well bulbs are done, the LED can't be dimmed in traditional way an INCAN bulb can.
So the Front SAM will declare it is faulty because it is not seeing proper load during the dimming process.
There is nothing I can do and I will not add resistor to them LEDs.... No way.
I will someday replace all 4, probably with Honda's 3 watt INCAN bulb to simply reduce heat.
what is the part number of the Honda bulb? I am not going to mess with DTCs coming from the foot well Sam’s so the best I can do is reduce heat that is ruining the light lens. Thanks for your help.
11-03-2022, 12:42 PM
it will take ALL 4 types of LED I have, sweet !!!!!!!
1 bulb at trunk will stay hot , cant use cooler LED.
