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Got alignment done 6 months ago, driver front looks like this today
Like title says, I got my alignment done 6 months ago, front drivers side tire been losing air. Today i went to take tire off thinking I had to plug it, well it’s worn so bad the thread is showing on the inside. I post a picture…… I call the tire place asking if they did alignment how did this happen in 6 months…… he says, well it could be steering issue, it could be a few things…. He right to a point but I would know if something was wrong or off…. Should they be responsible for my tire or what can I do about this? M M get Full alignment 6 months ago
Camber or Caster is not adjustable like TOE for our W212.
6 months ago and what mileage have you done since ?
Show us the alignment report of 6 months ago.
I am surprised the un-even wear was not detected visually by you sooner.
I mean don't you ever do 1-2 psi air fill per month on the tires , as such your eyes would be close and low enough to see the wear ?
I am not an expert in alignment jargon, but I understand that MB vehicle you can only adjust the toe and your tire shows unusually high negative camber. That is when looking at your vehicle from the front you see the tire's top leaning inward with respect to its bottom.
Since MB cannot be adjusted for camber (unless modified using special suspension bolts), I could only guess you have a suspension/steering issue that should have been detected during alignment and mentioned to you for repair (or addressed alternatively).
Those tires look pretty worn down even on the other side. I don't think anyone really is at fault here, you could probably say it's Mercedes for those types of alignment settings. I think someone else claimed it's because Mercedes has their settings set for running 100 mph+ on the Autobahn and when you run at lower speeds, you end up with inner tire wear. Not too much to be done about it aside from rotating the tires frequently as it's always the fronts that wear like that. It's basically the cost of owning a Mercedes. I suppose you could also have some worn suspension components but it seems that these days the alignment shops don't really spot those anymore. They just set toe to spec.
When you say the camber can’t be adjusted without proper suspension bolts, are you saying basically it has to be done at a MB dealer? Also I don’t believe it’s any worn suspension in any way because I would feel it or hear it, the suspension feels fine…..I posted the results of last alignment, if you see anything wrong please let me know… thank you
When you say the camber can’t be adjusted without proper suspension bolts, are you saying basically it has to be done at a MB dealer? Also I don’t believe it’s any worn suspension in any way because I would feel it or hear it, the suspension feels fine…..I posted the results of last alignment, if you see anything wrong please let me know… thank you
If things like bushings are worn, you wouldn't necessarily feel or hear it. Things tend to wear over time so you just get used to the new normal. You'd probably notice it if it broke right away, but not if it slowly disintegrates or if play develops. Then it would just give more so you wouldn't feel or hear that. Anyone can install the bolts but they're expensive and just masking the problem.
Facts are “Full Wheel Alignment” 6 months ago was only Toe “directional” adjustment!
Cost cutting and ever increasing speed of factory assembly lines has meant Front Camber (and Caster) along with Rear Camber has been deleted.
We saw the need therefore to re instate from the 90’s once again “full front and rear adjustment” !
Allowing to adjust tire contact angles spread load more evenly to cater for other then “showroom height” conditions.
Day to day commuting - encountering excess edge wear through high cambered roads or camber change through altered height.
Result of load carrying or lowering. Fitting wide profile tires or curb knock damage.
You can fit (front only) inaccurate one offset position Camber bolts. But they only offer a minimal 1/8” (0.3 degrees) Camber change!
K-MAC unique patented design front lower arm Camber replacement bushings (W212 E200-550) fit on car without need for arm removal and are precise single wrench adjustable replacing the highest wearing front bushes at the same time!.
Precise accurate - under load direct on alignment rack fixing it right the first time. With 4 times the adjustment range !
#502916-1i $345(Both Sides) - Less then cost of one hi-performance tire.
#502916K $480Includes also front Caster adjustment (Mono Ball / 2 Axis design) significantly improving brake and steering response.
REAR SUSPENSION
#502126K $480(Both Sides)
Replacing the lower arm inner bushes (also fitted without need for arm removal)
Includes extra rear Toe adjustment to compensate for the rear Camber addition. Like front easily accessible single wrench adjustment direct on alignment rack - under load.
See Website K-MAC.com Or Sales / Tech (24/7) +1888 847 9099
Delivery $40 one kit (Worldwide) $20 each extra.
AUDI to VOLVO - KMAC Experience of Resolving OEM Suspension Shortcomings Since 1964 !
In 6 months I put on 10k miles, here is a picture of the report
Dang how could the alignment shop did not warn you 6 months ago that your camber is BAD, very bad and needed immediate repair.
If indeed your suspension is code 485 and your car W212.0 non-4matic , the camber values depending on models are : ( attached )
is -23' minutes or -0.38 degrees with allowable tolerance +-21' minutes or 0.35 degrees , or -0.73 to -0.03 degrees
Mercedes alignment spec is degrees-minutes. Its Romess value is degrees decimal.
Your alignment report is using decimal degrees.
1 degree if using degree minute has 60' minutes resolution per 1 degree
or
1 degree decimal has 1/100 decimal degrees resolution
Your left front is -1.5 decimal degrees as per report, while MB wants it to be -0.73 to -0.03 degrees Your right front is -1.0 decimal degrees as per report
MB permissible difference between Left and Right camber for the assumed car model (yours) is to not exceed +-24' minutes or 24/60 = +-0.4 decimal degrees
So not only your left and right camber on their own is way out of spec, they both in relation to each other is also out of spec.
Use vin decoder, make sure of your suspension code and your W212-code is correct.
Example : my E400 is W212.065 and 677 suspension code.
So my front camber spec is -33' minutes or 33/60 = -0.55 degrees with allowance of +-24' minutes or 24/60 = +-0.4 decimal degrees or -0.95 to -0.15 decimal degrees
I have made my own data table and I do alignment and wheel balancing per 3,000 miles or 5,000KM because rear tires will last at best 25,000KM for me. Front tires should last 40,000KM.
Below is my 12th alignment using my original AMG Ronald wheel after I damaged my BBS wheel and need a long time special order from Germany.
13th alignment is back using the BBS wheel. See the far right is the alignment spec my car should be using as per MB WIS. https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...ill-works.html
Donny wrote : When you say the camber can’t be adjusted without proper suspension bolts, are you saying basically it has to be done at a MB dealer? Also I don’t believe it’s any worn suspension in any way because I would feel it or hear it, the suspension feels fine…..I posted the results of last alignment, if you see anything wrong please let me know… thank you
I did my own installation of the caster/camber correction bolts. It is no fun and you need car to be at ride height when tightening the bolts and that means you must have
special wheel support ( I have ) or access to a flat bed alignment rack.
Anyhow, MB correction bolts can't help you at such out-of-spec your camber is now. Correction bolt can correct approx 0.33 decimal degrees only.
You will need new camber arm item #300 and probably or best renew the lower ball joint too item #310. Note below is based on my VIN.
Yes it is sad to must buy arm set with bushing item #300 when the worn out part (assumed arm not damaged ) is almost always the bushing only.
Just so you know, my rear suspension soon will need attention too. The trend is my Rear RIGHT side camber arm is aging..... another 6' (minutes) difference between Left and Right camber arm, is all I got time left. Once the difference hit 30' (minutes), that is it. or If the LEFT camber aging too in the future and climbing value, -1* 57' is the max limit on any side.
Ya that helps I appreciate all your guys help, I’m really upset Firestone did a halfass job on this alignment and now I’m out a tire and now have to spend more money to fix this issue…. I called Firestone Ofcourse they see no fault of their own , I do most the maintenance myself , hub bearings, lower control arms, ball joints. Alignment I can’t do. I appreciate all your help
Which arm is this you have replaced and for rear or front ?
Do remember to only tighten all arm's bolt and also rear damper bottom bolt, if and only when your car is on the "ground" to have its proper loaded ride height.
If you forget this and tightened them bolts when suspension is hanging in the air full down, your bushings life will be VERY short lived.
The alignment report showed RED for front camber and rear camber, that means they are out of spec compared to the alignment machine's database.
That alone is enough as an alarm bell.
As to how accurate the alignment machine database is I do not know but looking at its RED warning it is not too bad.
However it will be best for us to compile on our own data and make best use of it.
You can request on this forum for CASTER data of W212, members will help. I know I have posted somewhere but long time ago.
I am now in Bali , so can't access my PC back home in Jakarta for WIS data.
If your car is this spec: Model 212.0 with Model 212.0 with code 485, except 4MATIC
Your rear Cambers are both very BAD too. It is supposed to be -1 degree 2 minutes or 1.03 decimal degrees with allowance +-30' minutes or 0.5 decimal degrees or
max negative at -1.53 decimal degrees.
Both of your LEFT and RIGHT rear cambers are now at -1.9 decimal degrees.
I do not know your wheel ET/offset spec and relevant tire size information and/or if it has any thick spacer used which can upset overall values.
I replaced the passenger front lower control arm, ball joint and hub bearing…. I didn’t know I had to tighten it on the ground. Which bolt exactly are you talking about?
I replaced the passenger front lower control arm, ball joint and hub bearing…. I didn’t know I had to tighten it on the ground. Which bolt exactly are you talking about?
Bolt & nut set item 220/240 ( Caster arm ) and bolt set item 320/340 ( camber arm ). The WIS has the ride height/pre-load information too.
.
The related WIS for caster and camber arm has the ride height/pre-load information too but its explained in a not so technical term as in ready to drive
No 2 in red applies to standard bolts and not the caster/camber correction bolts.
No 1 in red applies to the unique caster/camber correction bolts where it has special locking groove and not the usual eccentric bolt. The groove is what will tear apart the
bushing insert from its rubber casting if the bolt is not held down when nut being loosened. Make it a good habit where bolts is to stay still and nuts are the only one to spin/loosen when
doing bolts at the suspension arm.
I hate doing the front arms bolts proper torque, it is no fun with car lifted height of only like 40cm my 4 wheel/tire stand can offer, not good enough height for long tools in use at such high torque value.
But I got to do what I got to do as those bolts are my life at high speed.
Ya that helps I appreciate all your guys help, I’m really upset Firestone did a halfass job on this alignment and now I’m out a tire and now have to spend more money to fix this issue…. I called Firestone Ofcourse they see no fault of their own , I do most the maintenance myself , hub bearings, lower control arms, ball joints. Alignment I can’t do. I appreciate all your help
That tire is completely worn out. look at the wear bar across the face of it. sure, its beyond worn out on the inside, but in the middle its still got less tread than the safety bar, and only on the outermost channel is there a hair bit of rubber above the wear bar.
even if the whole tire looked like that outer groove, it would be unsafe in heavy rains at highway speeds.
That tire is completely worn out. look at the wear bar across the face of it. sure, its beyond worn out on the inside, but in the middle its still got less tread than the safety bar, and only on the outermost channel is there a hair bit of rubber above the wear bar.
even if the whole tire looked like that outer groove, it would be unsafe in heavy rains at highway speeds.
Yeah, tire could have been close to be worn out 10k ago. Probably should have been rotated at 5k instead of driven on for 10k. Wonder what the tread depth was at the time. For rain driving, minimum should be 4/32's, snow is 5/32. Replacement time is 3/32's and bald is at 2/32s which is what those tires look like they're at. I tend to replace them at the 4-5/32's mark and new they're about 10/32's. When my inner tires start getting worn down, the tire is already down to 5/32s and I basically didn't rotate them often enough. There's a reason why RWD cars have tires that only last half the rated life because they can't be rotated.
my tires on my 212 Amg only last about 12.5k miles total…. Fwiw
and yes suspension components need the proper preload or the bushing is out of place in a rotational aspect.
It is expected for AMG set up, even the front camber is very negative, near -2 degrees and the rear one a bit over -2 degrees if 4matic.
These are fun tire burners and you have driven it the way it should be driven
As long as the wear pattern is "proper" albeit more on the inner side of the tire, it is acceptable. OP tire wear is not "proper".
Here is my rear tire thead depth measurement : Its life max to 1.6mm wear indicator would be 19,000KM or 12,000 miles too. Michelin Pilot Sport 4.
LEFT tire is newer because I made a claimed for a bad roadforce value and bought a new one while waiting for the claim.
Above table is "proper" wear for the camber setting spec and heavy footed driver.
====
My front tires can do 40,00KM if I do not corner too aggressive. Camber being only -33 minutes or 0.55 decimal degrees, unlike your near -2 decimal degrees.
So my wear will be at the outside if I do hard cornering, which is acceptable.
Proper alignment but pushed quite hard for approx 60KM at the track with 9 right hand corners out of total 11.
So left front tire carry the highest traction load
Yeah, tire could have been close to be worn out 10k ago. Probably should have been rotated at 5k instead of driven on for 10k. Wonder what the tread depth was at the time. For rain driving, minimum should be 4/32's, snow is 5/32. Replacement time is 3/32's and bald is at 2/32s which is what those tires look like they're at. I tend to replace them at the 4-5/32's mark and new they're about 10/32's. When my inner tires start getting worn down, the tire is already down to 5/32s and I basically didn't rotate them often enough. There's a reason why RWD cars have tires that only last half the rated life because they can't be rotated.
if our rainy season is coming up, I'll replace them at 5/32 or 6/32, if its summer dry season, I'll let them run down to 4/32.
It is expected for AMG set up, even the front camber is very negative, near -2 degrees and the rear one a bit over -2 degrees if 4matic.
These are fun tire burners and you have driven it the way it should be driven
As long as the wear pattern is "proper" albeit more on the inner side of the tire, it is acceptable. OP tire wear is not "proper".
Here is my rear tire thead depth measurement : Its life max to 1.6mm wear indicator would be 19,000KM or 12,000 miles too. Michelin Pilot Sport 4.
LEFT tire is newer because I made a claimed for a bad roadforce value and bought a new one while waiting for the claim.
Above table is "proper" wear for the camber setting spec and heavy footed driver.
====
My front tires can do 40,00KM if I do not corner too aggressive. Camber being only -33 minutes or 0.55 decimal degrees, unlike your near -2 decimal degrees.
So my wear will be at the outside if I do hard cornering, which is acceptable.
Proper alignment but pushed quite hard for approx 60KM at the track with 9 right hand corners out of total 11.
So left front tire carry the highest traction load
The outside side of the tire get hammered
fully aware. And alwsys happy for your informative posts. Was giving perspective. My tires look as they would for a staggered rwd high powered car. As all have mentioned, ops tires are just worn out. New tires then an alignment are the best option with op understanding if not rotated, they won’t, dont last. KMac seems like a nice product but I’d personally rather have the tires contact the pavement as designed vs have longer life. As designed helps with higher speed turns and you can feel it. Can’t imagine ho much the *** would hang out without this.
Having Front and Rear Camber adjustability - not only to resolve costly, premature excess inner edge tire wear encountered in day to day commuting....
But also “Track Days” - in the pursuit of front row of the grid lap times !
Being able to “DIAL IN EXTRA NEG. CAMBER” (and track width) to dramatically reduce understeer, rolling in of tires in the endeavor to hit those corner apexes every time along with going deeper into the corners with increased traction and braking response.
A PRESTIGE PERFORMANCE AUTO - yet due to cost cutting and ever increasing speed of vehicle assembly lines NOT EVEN AMG MODELS have Camber adjustability !
Only AMG GT - then only Coupe models and require time consuming shimming ! While K-MAC unique patented design breakthrough allows easily accessible fast, precise single wrench adjustability.
W212/S AMG E63, 65 MODELS:
Front Lower arm inner bushings - highest wearing
#503616-1i $345(Both Sides) CAMBER (fit without need for arm removal)
#502916-3L $545(Both Sides) STAGE 3 (Full Race) *Fast Adjust From Engine Bay
REAR SUSPENSION:
#502126 $480(Both Sides) Camber (and extra Toe). Fit without arm removal.
#502628 $480Uprated bushings for the ‘6’ rear multi link arms. Less twist, flex, loss of traction especially when applying power lane changing / overtaking.
Re XMAS / 1st. January 15% Discount offer.
To resolve members ringing. To simplify way it works - is once order is placed online through PayPal we then refund the 15% amount !
Thanks Kevin ( K-Mac),
I want to keep my suspension arms stock set up.
I have my original AMG wheel set with lower cost tire to get it hammered on the track, which I have done some 16 laps this year but much more calmer driving.
I also do not want special track setting for a daily car and have to adjust it before and after track use.
If I have special track car only, your system would be awesome.
I go to track purely for fun while not endangering others, considering if I ever skid out far and wide while on public roads.
Also too much nut-case dumb-azz on public roads which I can't predict what they will do.
12-28-2022, 05:24 PM
as in ready to drive
