E-300 W212, M276 Aftermarket Camshaft Adjusters
#1
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E-300 W212, M276 Aftermarket Camshaft Adjusters
Hi, I'm planning to change the camshaft adjusters for M276 engine but, the OE parts are too expensive (600-1000$ each). Not to mention the tensioners and the other needed parts. I'm looking for a high quality aftermarket parts. I found Febi Bilstein much cheaper but as far as I know their parts' quality are poor and I don't want to risk it installing them inside the engine. Any thoughts?Thanks
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Sultano (06-16-2024)
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2008 E350 (W211 @170K), 2012 ML350 (W166 @119K), 2014 E350 (W212 @100K), 2015 ML350 (W166 @96K)
Hi, I'm planning to change the camshaft adjusters for M276 engine but, the OE parts are too expensive (600-1000$ each). Not to mention the tensioners and the other needed parts. I'm looking for a high quality aftermarket parts. I found Febi Bilstein much cheaper but as far as I know their parts' quality are poor and I don't want to risk it installing them inside the engine. Any thoughts?Thanks
#3
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Hi,
Thanks for the reply.
The typical rattling noise in a cold start. The noise is not always there so it might be just the beginning of the problem.
I have been reading a lot of threads related to the same problem and it seems the issue is very common with this engine.
I took the car to a local workshop to have it inspected. I don't really remember the error code but, after the inspection , the mechanic concluded that one of the cam adjusters is bad.
I assume it won't take very long for the other cam adjusters to go bad so I decided to change all of them. By the way, the car has 155K KM.
Thanks,
Thanks for the reply.
The typical rattling noise in a cold start. The noise is not always there so it might be just the beginning of the problem.
I have been reading a lot of threads related to the same problem and it seems the issue is very common with this engine.
I took the car to a local workshop to have it inspected. I don't really remember the error code but, after the inspection , the mechanic concluded that one of the cam adjusters is bad.
I assume it won't take very long for the other cam adjusters to go bad so I decided to change all of them. By the way, the car has 155K KM.
Thanks,
#4
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2008 E350 (W211 @170K), 2012 ML350 (W166 @119K), 2014 E350 (W212 @100K), 2015 ML350 (W166 @96K)
These engines ALWAYS rattle at the cold start because they do not have enough oil pressure. The rattle should go away very quickly within 30 seconds, then we can start thinking something is OFF.
If you do the "oil pump solenoid modification", the rattle will go away within 10 sec if that long since the ECU will ramp a cold engine to @1200->1500 RPM.
To be certain the VVT (cam adjuster) is bad, the adjuster will usually MISS, and if you are rotating the engine manually you can hear a loud "CLICK" on the adjuster.
It seems the first cam adjuster that goes bad is the Bank 1 intake camshaft since it is also the one that drives the High Pressure Fuel Pump.
155KM ~ 100Kmiles. My two M276s are just fine at 91K+, and 95K+, and sure you can hear the engine when starts, but it goes aways within seconds. The E350 has the oil pump solenoid modification though.
Be certain you really need these parts, and do not open the engine for the sake of it. There is nothing worse than disturbing a good working engine and taking chances.
What oil specifications are you using? Several (not everyone) in the forum have tested heavier than 0W, I am at 5W since Florida does not see cold winters (compared to Canada for example). The engine is quieter, and smoother (to me).
If you do the "oil pump solenoid modification", the rattle will go away within 10 sec if that long since the ECU will ramp a cold engine to @1200->1500 RPM.
To be certain the VVT (cam adjuster) is bad, the adjuster will usually MISS, and if you are rotating the engine manually you can hear a loud "CLICK" on the adjuster.
It seems the first cam adjuster that goes bad is the Bank 1 intake camshaft since it is also the one that drives the High Pressure Fuel Pump.
155KM ~ 100Kmiles. My two M276s are just fine at 91K+, and 95K+, and sure you can hear the engine when starts, but it goes aways within seconds. The E350 has the oil pump solenoid modification though.
Be certain you really need these parts, and do not open the engine for the sake of it. There is nothing worse than disturbing a good working engine and taking chances.
What oil specifications are you using? Several (not everyone) in the forum have tested heavier than 0W, I am at 5W since Florida does not see cold winters (compared to Canada for example). The engine is quieter, and smoother (to me).
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#5
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
decision tree
It's not easy to speculate with certainty without hands on. I fear you got sold a job with all the most expensive parts. That should clearly not be the basis for your repair.
Feel free to replace what's necessary even it its not expensive: tensioner.
Instead of looking for cheaper VVT parts, let's make sure how your startup rattle is responding. This will gelp narrow things down.
Definitely don't rely on thin oil to prevent rattle... thin oil washes out of tensioner + VVT too quickly.
Is your startup rattle length ...:
1 second : bad oil viscosity
3 seconds : bad chain tensioner
7 seconds : bad VVT intake
- Bad oil grade is too thin and/or too old.
- 155Km: original tensioners are long gone!!
- Bad VVT you can be tested easily without opening anything!!
Feel free to replace what's necessary even it its not expensive: tensioner.
Instead of looking for cheaper VVT parts, let's make sure how your startup rattle is responding. This will gelp narrow things down.
Definitely don't rely on thin oil to prevent rattle... thin oil washes out of tensioner + VVT too quickly.
Is your startup rattle length ...:
1 second : bad oil viscosity
3 seconds : bad chain tensioner
7 seconds : bad VVT intake
- Bad oil grade is too thin and/or too old.
- 155Km: original tensioners are long gone!!
- Bad VVT you can be tested easily without opening anything!!
#6
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
Rattle background....
Let me enlighten you with a bit... my new 10kMi engine was already welcoming me with morning rattle even before my first oil change.
I was delighted - Dealer had me captured with chaos and discount coupons for jobs to come.
I had purchased the extended warranty, so NOTHING got fixed... "everything was normal".
The 8kMi oil viscosity allows a brand new VVT and tensioners to drain out and rattle for 5seconds.
TENSIONERS need to be in golden shape but the VVT can get way extended with normal oil pump pressure of better choice of oil viscosity.
Weak oils are no match for superheated engines.
Oil interval 5kMi... after that viscosity is all used up and key aluminum engine parts create glitter specs.
I was delighted - Dealer had me captured with chaos and discount coupons for jobs to come.
I had purchased the extended warranty, so NOTHING got fixed... "everything was normal".
The 8kMi oil viscosity allows a brand new VVT and tensioners to drain out and rattle for 5seconds.
TENSIONERS need to be in golden shape but the VVT can get way extended with normal oil pump pressure of better choice of oil viscosity.
Weak oils are no match for superheated engines.
Oil interval 5kMi... after that viscosity is all used up and key aluminum engine parts create glitter specs.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-18-2024 at 01:17 AM. Reason: OIL VISCOSITY
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juanmor40 (03-18-2024)
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
OIL VISCOSITY NECESSARY
These engines ALWAYS rattle at the cold start because they do not have enough oil pressure. The rattle should go away very quickly within 30 seconds, then we can start thinking something is OFF.
If you do the "oil pump solenoid modification", the rattle will go away within 10 sec if that long since the ECU will ramp a cold engine to @1200->1500 RPM.
To be certain the VVT (cam adjuster) is bad, the adjuster will usually MISS, and if you are rotating the engine manually you can hear a loud "CLICK" on the adjuster.
It seems the first cam adjuster that goes bad is the Bank 1 intake camshaft since it is also the one that drives the High Pressure Fuel Pump.
155KM ~ 100Kmiles. My two M276s are just fine at 91K+, and 95K+, and sure you can hear the engine when starts, but it goes aways within seconds. The E350 has the oil pump solenoid modification though.
Be certain you really need these parts, and do not open the engine for the sake of it. There is nothing worse than disturbing a good working engine and taking chances.
What oil specifications are you using? Several (not everyone) in the forum have tested heavier than 0W, I am at 5W since Florida does not see cold winters (compared to Canada for example). The engine is quieter, and smoother (to me).
If you do the "oil pump solenoid modification", the rattle will go away within 10 sec if that long since the ECU will ramp a cold engine to @1200->1500 RPM.
To be certain the VVT (cam adjuster) is bad, the adjuster will usually MISS, and if you are rotating the engine manually you can hear a loud "CLICK" on the adjuster.
It seems the first cam adjuster that goes bad is the Bank 1 intake camshaft since it is also the one that drives the High Pressure Fuel Pump.
155KM ~ 100Kmiles. My two M276s are just fine at 91K+, and 95K+, and sure you can hear the engine when starts, but it goes aways within seconds. The E350 has the oil pump solenoid modification though.
Be certain you really need these parts, and do not open the engine for the sake of it. There is nothing worse than disturbing a good working engine and taking chances.
What oil specifications are you using? Several (not everyone) in the forum have tested heavier than 0W, I am at 5W since Florida does not see cold winters (compared to Canada for example). The engine is quieter, and smoother (to me).
Juan: I am beginning to wonder if the dry cylinders super-heat is not purely designed to waste the oil viscosity that causes rattles... on schedule.
This weekend I gave our favorite Motul 5w-40 a little booster shot....
I went to the car store to pick up a qualified 10w40... they were all conventional paraffined oils.
The next thing you know is I added 500ml of synthetic 15w50 in my 50kMi engine that had restarted to consume thinned vaporized 5w40.
Mobil1 viscosity booster shot...
The outcome shows viscosity improvement evidenced by :
-- Much quieter engine noise after crank start
-- More positively set VVT evidenced by solid responsive hard pedal at 900RPM. Zero "hesitation" as with thin oil.
-- Freeway pedal is amazing: at 70MPH i hardly need to touch the pedal from idle.
-- Between coasting and acceleration: zero lag instantaneous response.
My next oil change is a 10 or 15W-40 synthetic. As of now I am concentrating on ball-joint, AKE brakes and ECT YOYO.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 03-18-2024 at 02:36 AM.
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juanmor40 (03-18-2024)
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#8
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Thread Starter
These engines ALWAYS rattle at the cold start because they do not have enough oil pressure. The rattle should go away very quickly within 30 seconds, then we can start thinking something is OFF.
If you do the "oil pump solenoid modification", the rattle will go away within 10 sec if that long since the ECU will ramp a cold engine to @1200->1500 RPM.
To be certain the VVT (cam adjuster) is bad, the adjuster will usually MISS, and if you are rotating the engine manually you can hear a loud "CLICK" on the adjuster.
It seems the first cam adjuster that goes bad is the Bank 1 intake camshaft since it is also the one that drives the High Pressure Fuel Pump.
155KM ~ 100Kmiles. My two M276s are just fine at 91K+, and 95K+, and sure you can hear the engine when starts, but it goes aways within seconds. The E350 has the oil pump solenoid modification though.
Be certain you really need these parts, and do not open the engine for the sake of it. There is nothing worse than disturbing a good working engine and taking chances.
What oil specifications are you using? Several (not everyone) in the forum have tested heavier than 0W, I am at 5W since Florida does not see cold winters (compared to Canada for example). The engine is quieter, and smoother (to me).
If you do the "oil pump solenoid modification", the rattle will go away within 10 sec if that long since the ECU will ramp a cold engine to @1200->1500 RPM.
To be certain the VVT (cam adjuster) is bad, the adjuster will usually MISS, and if you are rotating the engine manually you can hear a loud "CLICK" on the adjuster.
It seems the first cam adjuster that goes bad is the Bank 1 intake camshaft since it is also the one that drives the High Pressure Fuel Pump.
155KM ~ 100Kmiles. My two M276s are just fine at 91K+, and 95K+, and sure you can hear the engine when starts, but it goes aways within seconds. The E350 has the oil pump solenoid modification though.
Be certain you really need these parts, and do not open the engine for the sake of it. There is nothing worse than disturbing a good working engine and taking chances.
What oil specifications are you using? Several (not everyone) in the forum have tested heavier than 0W, I am at 5W since Florida does not see cold winters (compared to Canada for example). The engine is quieter, and smoother (to me).
I have no idea about the "oil pump solenoid modification" but I guess you mean the check valve that keeps some oil for the VVT gears during the ignition. (Engine 276.952)
Engine oil is Mercedes-Benz 229.50 5w40. I'm in Saudi Arabia.
If I may ask, for how long have you kept your M276s rattling without addressing it? Is there any error code or just the noise? I know what you are saying cause the car feels and sound very normal after a couple of seconds but i'm afraid the issue might escalate.
#9
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Thread Starter
It's not easy to speculate with certainty without hands on. I fear you got sold a job with all the most expensive parts. That should clearly not be the basis for your repair.
Feel free to replace what's necessary even it its not expensive: tensioner.
Instead of looking for cheaper VVT parts, let's make sure how your startup rattle is responding. This will gelp narrow things down.
Definitely don't rely on thin oil to prevent rattle... thin oil washes out of tensioner + VVT too quickly.
Is your startup rattle length ...:
1 second : bad oil viscosity
3 seconds : bad chain tensioner
7 seconds : bad VVT intake
- Bad oil grade is too thin and/or too old.
- 155Km: original tensioners are long gone!!
- Bad VVT you can be tested easily without opening anything!!
Feel free to replace what's necessary even it its not expensive: tensioner.
Instead of looking for cheaper VVT parts, let's make sure how your startup rattle is responding. This will gelp narrow things down.
Definitely don't rely on thin oil to prevent rattle... thin oil washes out of tensioner + VVT too quickly.
Is your startup rattle length ...:
1 second : bad oil viscosity
3 seconds : bad chain tensioner
7 seconds : bad VVT intake
- Bad oil grade is too thin and/or too old.
- 155Km: original tensioners are long gone!!
- Bad VVT you can be tested easily without opening anything!!
The rattle noise is just 2~3 seconds. For the oil I use Mercedes-Benz 229.50 5w40.
I have seen the process of testing VVT. However, I'm not really a mechanic I just do some basics and have no tools whatsoever. The guy that I took the car to him has been well-known for years fixing Mercedes cars so I trusted his diagnose and he has mentioned the car has some error code in bank 1 I believe, which is related to the camshaft( I can get the error code later)
For the time being, I will not replace anything unless the issue is clearly identified.
#10
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Thread Starter
I really appreciate your help , thank you.
However, could somebody advise If there is a manufacturer with high quality VVT gears for a decent cost.
Don't get me wrong guys, I don't mean China garbage, I mean a well-known company with high quality products.
if it's not now , is gonna be for later on if I decided to replace them.
However, could somebody advise If there is a manufacturer with high quality VVT gears for a decent cost.
Don't get me wrong guys, I don't mean China garbage, I mean a well-known company with high quality products.
if it's not now , is gonna be for later on if I decided to replace them.
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2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
I really appreciate your help , thank you.
However, could somebody advise If there is a manufacturer with high quality VVT gears for a decent cost.
Don't get me wrong guys, I don't mean China garbage, I mean a well-known company with high quality products.
if it's not now , is gonna be for later on if I decided to replace them.
However, could somebody advise If there is a manufacturer with high quality VVT gears for a decent cost.
Don't get me wrong guys, I don't mean China garbage, I mean a well-known company with high quality products.
if it's not now , is gonna be for later on if I decided to replace them.
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juanmor40 (03-18-2024)
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
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juanmor40 (05-01-2024)
#15
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
stability + predictability... GDI torque
It may go away when ECU switches to better GDI timings... it then will sound more like a "diesel engine".
The injectors ticking is morphed into a sort of cowboy wip cracking... attached mp3 sample.
Ticking idle will still be used on cold engine then switched into "advanced GDI" based on engine operating temperature.
As far as I can tell... advanced timings are linked to oil viscosity, Bank1 tensioner, engine temperature. The heart of which is HPFP timings satisfying ECU with necessary precision.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 05-01-2024 at 02:44 PM.
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ninobrn99 (05-01-2024)
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
pimped FPU
The only thing non-stock I have in fuel control is my 3-Phase fuel pump module is a bit electronically reworked to be honestly reliable.
This module is a perfect noise factory. It switches 12VDC into AC approximated sine wave voltage times 3 phases shifted 120° apart to cover 360°.
-- Additional capacitive noise filtering
-- Shorter GND/12V power wires
-- Separated harness path
Nothing too crazy! If no one else gets "diesel GDI" may the above is the answer.
By experimenting with solderless fixes, I have the proof CAN-Busare not too good error correction is heavily used.
The low pressure pump uses extra-long wires to help make this worse directly on the ECU/TCU own VIP CAN-C. This bus should be mint for timely work. Retransmit protocol is chaos tolerant but I am certainly not.
I may upgrade my stock skinny twisted-pairs CAN-Bus wiring to shielded (CAT-6) on long runs such as:
-- VIP CAN-C ECU bus shared with LPFP module!!
-- Busy Rear-SAM
-- Faulty RFK.
After I have resoldered my ESP/ABS to minimize active CAN-C disruptions.
PWM wiring needs to be sized to carry the peak current not the average. Grounding far away with skinny wire is a substandard calculated mistake. Me like GND half-foot or 10cm away.
+++Pump controller module located between rear seat and door on passenger side.
++++ Also I made "Swiss-cheese" with plastic enclosure to drop amazing high heat.
This module is a perfect noise factory. It switches 12VDC into AC approximated sine wave voltage times 3 phases shifted 120° apart to cover 360°.
-- Additional capacitive noise filtering
-- Shorter GND/12V power wires
-- Separated harness path
Nothing too crazy! If no one else gets "diesel GDI" may the above is the answer.
By experimenting with solderless fixes, I have the proof CAN-Bus
The low pressure pump uses extra-long wires to help make this worse directly on the ECU/TCU own VIP CAN-C. This bus should be mint for timely work. Retransmit protocol is chaos tolerant but I am certainly not.
I may upgrade my stock skinny twisted-pairs CAN-Bus wiring to shielded (CAT-6) on long runs such as:
-- VIP CAN-C ECU bus shared with LPFP module!!
-- Busy Rear-SAM
-- Faulty RFK.
After I have resoldered my ESP/ABS to minimize active CAN-C disruptions.
PWM wiring needs to be sized to carry the peak current not the average. Grounding far away with skinny wire is a substandard calculated mistake. Me like GND half-foot or 10cm away.
+++Pump controller module located between rear seat and door on passenger side.
++++ Also I made "Swiss-cheese" with plastic enclosure to drop amazing high heat.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 05-01-2024 at 03:23 PM. Reason: location
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ninobrn99 (05-01-2024)
#17
The only thing non-stock I have in fuel control is my 3-Phase fuel pump module is a bit electronically reworked to be more reliable.
-- Additional capacitive noise filtering
-- Shorter GND/12V power wires
-- Separated harness path
Nothing too crazy! If no one else gets "diesel GDI" may the above is the answer.
By experimenting with solderless fixes, I have the proof CAN-Busare not too good error correction is heavily used.
The low pressure pump uses extra-long wires to help make this worse directly on the ECU/TCU own VIP CAN-C. This bus should be mint for timely work. Retransmit protocol is chaos tolerant but I am certainly not.
I may upgrade my stock skinny twisted-pairs CAN-Bus wiring to shielded (CAT-6) on long runs such as:
VIP bus LPFP module
Busy Rear-SAM
Buggy RFK.
PWM wiring needs to be sized to carry the peak current not the average. Grounding far away with skinny wire is a substandard calculated mistake. Me like GND half-foot or 10cm away.
-- Additional capacitive noise filtering
-- Shorter GND/12V power wires
-- Separated harness path
Nothing too crazy! If no one else gets "diesel GDI" may the above is the answer.
By experimenting with solderless fixes, I have the proof CAN-Bus
The low pressure pump uses extra-long wires to help make this worse directly on the ECU/TCU own VIP CAN-C. This bus should be mint for timely work. Retransmit protocol is chaos tolerant but I am certainly not.
I may upgrade my stock skinny twisted-pairs CAN-Bus wiring to shielded (CAT-6) on long runs such as:
VIP bus LPFP module
Busy Rear-SAM
Buggy RFK.
PWM wiring needs to be sized to carry the peak current not the average. Grounding far away with skinny wire is a substandard calculated mistake. Me like GND half-foot or 10cm away.
I’ll be interested to see how you do the wiring. It could only help.
#18
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
I reworked the power wiring couple years ago when I discovered the pump controller - Documented in my signature.
Back then I resolved to survey my entire car to retire chaos from my then low mileage chassis.
No1 chaos purveyors are "WTF" main GND and painted GND posts in particular at front footwell where SAM + ECU source GND.
Many discoveries from or shared with master @S-Prihadi
+++ HPFP is a very touchy unit to timely control.
Back then I resolved to survey my entire car to retire chaos from my then low mileage chassis.
No1 chaos purveyors are "WTF" main GND and painted GND posts in particular at front footwell where SAM + ECU source GND.
Many discoveries from or shared with master @S-Prihadi
+++ HPFP is a very touchy unit to timely control.
#19
I reworked the power wiring couple years ago when I discovered the pump controller - Documented in my signature.
Back then I resolved to survey my entire car to retire chaos from my then low mileage chassis.
No1 chaos purveyors are "WTF" main GND and painted GND posts in particular at front footwell where SAM + ECU source GND.
Many discoveries from or shared with master @S-Prihadi
+++ HPFP is a very touchy unit to timely control.
Back then I resolved to survey my entire car to retire chaos from my then low mileage chassis.
No1 chaos purveyors are "WTF" main GND and painted GND posts in particular at front footwell where SAM + ECU source GND.
Many discoveries from or shared with master @S-Prihadi
+++ HPFP is a very touchy unit to timely control.
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juanmor40 (05-01-2024)
#20
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
Cam solenoids
While you're there... did you renew your 2x chain TENSIONERS ?
These tensioners are extra soft to save gasoline. They are unable to go the distance before impacting Bank1 timings.
This effectively forces the ECU to detune the engine with limited torque from weak mixtures.
I think tensioners are more important than new 4x VVT Solenoids unless leaking oil. The VVT solenoids hardly work... easy life unlike nearby CPS that may get toasted on hot engines with limited cooling.
These tensioners are extra soft to save gasoline. They are unable to go the distance before impacting Bank1 timings.
This effectively forces the ECU to detune the engine with limited torque from weak mixtures.
I think tensioners are more important than new 4x VVT Solenoids unless leaking oil. The VVT solenoids hardly work... easy life unlike nearby CPS that may get toasted on hot engines with limited cooling.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; 05-01-2024 at 05:38 PM.
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juanmor40 (05-01-2024)
#21
No, I haven’t. That’s why I had posted the video. I wasn’t sure if they were causing the sound. I guess I’ll get those done before I do too much else. Scrolling eBay for some factory turbos at a good price right now. Guess I’ll hit pause.
While you're there... did you renew your 2x chain TENSIONERS ? They don't go te distance before impacting Bank1 timings to effectively force the ECU to detune the engine.
I think tensioners are more important than new 4x VVT Solenoids unless leaking oil. The VVT solenoids hardly work... easy life unlike CPS that may get toasted on extremely hot engines with limited cooling.
I think tensioners are more important than new 4x VVT Solenoids unless leaking oil. The VVT solenoids hardly work... easy life unlike CPS that may get toasted on extremely hot engines with limited cooling.
#22
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MY'14 W212 M276 3.5NA @60kMi
Treat weak tensioners like plugs and coils.
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ninobrn99 (05-01-2024)
#23
#24
Hi, I'm planning to change the camshaft adjusters for M276 engine but, the OE parts are too expensive (600-1000$ each). Not to mention the tensioners and the other needed parts. I'm looking for a high quality aftermarket parts. I found Febi Bilstein much cheaper but as far as I know their parts' quality are poor and I don't want to risk it installing them inside the engine. Any thoughts?Thanks
Can I d m u?