Piston oil squirters
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Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 172
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From: Houston, TX
2017 S550 coupe, 2013 E550 coupe, 2008 Tahoe
Piston oil squirters
So I am unplugged on 2 M278s for about 1.5yrs now. My 2013 E550 coupe (w/ 2019 M278 replacement) was coded for the AMG dash that shows oil temp. Usual E550 coolant and oil temp is 221 degrees. I understand the oil and coolant temp sensors are not exactly accurate however when the coolant temp value drops from 221 to 174 (with oil temp slowly trailing the coolant temp), something is definitely happening. I am able to achieve this temp drop by hitting 3500rpm. I imagine the piston oil squirters are kicking in and helping cool the engine along with thermostat going fully open. My question is why can’t we get these piston squirters to always be active? What hardware controls them?
Hitting 3500rpm in my 2017 S550 coupe (w/ AMG coded dash to show oil temp) I do not see the same temp drop as the E550, maybe a 10 degree drop if anything. Usual S550 coolant value is 190-200 degrees and Oil temp seems to ride around the 210-215 range. I think the S550 reacts different possibly due to it being 4matic configuration and the newer low pressure coolant system having the coolant pump (I believe), so overall ECU has different cooling parameters. I am a novice compared to CaliBenzDriver and S-Pirhadi, so I could be way off in my understanding and assumptions.
Hitting 3500rpm in my 2017 S550 coupe (w/ AMG coded dash to show oil temp) I do not see the same temp drop as the E550, maybe a 10 degree drop if anything. Usual S550 coolant value is 190-200 degrees and Oil temp seems to ride around the 210-215 range. I think the S550 reacts different possibly due to it being 4matic configuration and the newer low pressure coolant system having the coolant pump (I believe), so overall ECU has different cooling parameters. I am a novice compared to CaliBenzDriver and S-Pirhadi, so I could be way off in my understanding and assumptions.
Last edited by wheatswake; Dec 25, 2024 at 09:35 AM.
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From: Fleriduh
W212 E63S Wagon - GSL580 - E63 - E350 - C300
Interesting. I have both engines (4.7 and 5.5). Both with the solenoids unplugged (and dummies in place). I have never, not ever seen a drop in temps based on a higher RPM. Obviously there are others who are far more qualified to have ideas on this (as you had mentioned). For me, never seen a drop in temps with higher RPM (then again, in general when I am at higher RPM I am driving like an idiot ;-)
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From: Baltimore County, MD
'13 s212 63 p30. '06 LX470
With the solenoids unplugged you now have those squirters always active. That you are noticing coolant temps leading oil temps would have me suggest you are seeing the effect of the cooling systems and they may be programmed differently between the two vehicles. Some are multistage and some are dedicated. I dont know the platforms well enough to know if they both have the same types of radiators, intercoolers, auxiliary pumps, etc. Same oil? Your assumptions on coding are probably correct.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 172
Likes: 45
From: Houston, TX
2017 S550 coupe, 2013 E550 coupe, 2008 Tahoe
With the solenoids unplugged you now have those squirters always active. That you are noticing coolant temps leading oil temps would have me suggest you are seeing the effect of the cooling systems and they may be programmed differently between the two vehicles. Some are multistage and some are dedicated. I dont know the platforms well enough to know if they both have the same types of radiators, intercoolers, auxiliary pumps, etc. Same oil? Your assumptions on coding are probably correct.
2013 E550 RWD has low pressure/intercooler reservoir but no pump for “pump always on” mod
2017 S550 4matic has same low pressure/intercooler system with the aux. pump, but relay to do “pump always on” mod is not next to the main/high pressure coolant system reservoir as shown in a lot of videos. Have not found this relay just yet, but about to dive into it.
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 485
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From: KY
2015 E63S Sedan, 2014 E550 coupe
Same here…both engines, both unplugged, neither have shown dramatic temp drops like that at any rpm. My main fluctuation observed is creeping up to 220 when in persistent stop/go traffic, and cooling down to 197ish when opened up in cooler weather…
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From: Maryland
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500 (M113), 2004 Audi TT225 (BEA)
Interesting. I too have the AMG menu coded by @BenzNinja . But I have the M276 engines in both the turbo and NA configurations.
I do believe it has been determined that there is NO oil temperature sensor, but that the oil temperature is calculated by the ECU based on a number of factors, such as ambient temperature, current driving style, engine load, coolant temperature, etc. I'm sure the algorithm for calculating the temp is proprietary. However, I have shown that the oil temp displayed in the AMG menu is within 1°F of average temperatures measured by two different IR thermometers. Therefore, I believe the temperature that is calculated and displayed in the AMG menu is accurate.
Having said that, the OP's running temps seem high to me. My coolant temp usually peaks at 199°F and the displayed oil temp at 206° to 208°F. Rarely does the oil temp hit even 212°F.
Lastly, the low temperature coolant circuit that is used by the intercooler is completely separate from the primary cooling system used for the engine. One does not affect the other.
I do believe it has been determined that there is NO oil temperature sensor, but that the oil temperature is calculated by the ECU based on a number of factors, such as ambient temperature, current driving style, engine load, coolant temperature, etc. I'm sure the algorithm for calculating the temp is proprietary. However, I have shown that the oil temp displayed in the AMG menu is within 1°F of average temperatures measured by two different IR thermometers. Therefore, I believe the temperature that is calculated and displayed in the AMG menu is accurate.
Having said that, the OP's running temps seem high to me. My coolant temp usually peaks at 199°F and the displayed oil temp at 206° to 208°F. Rarely does the oil temp hit even 212°F.
Lastly, the low temperature coolant circuit that is used by the intercooler is completely separate from the primary cooling system used for the engine. One does not affect the other.
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 11,922
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From: Silicon Valley
W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
There is a bit of snake in Temp mgt...
I do see some inconsistencies in engine temperatures despite having installed a new coolant T-stat 6Mo ago.
We know the ECU manages the Tstat opening to bring up engine temps to evaporate oil contaminants such as water condensates and GDI gasoline.
I don't want to say anything negative about the cooling system until I fully understand how to make it perform well.
Right now...
We can remove extreme pistons heat reliably with the experimental MOD-4.
I am getting the sense that T-stat management is purely mapped and not really dynamic to keep a decent temp constant.
It's a bit counter intuitive: I do see more favorable engine temps running AC to trigger rad fan. As if ECU would normally delay running coolant fan within an extended range.
It may be that the single engine Bank-2 sensor was ridiculously affected by chassis voltage swings. That's a serious no-no but nothings impossible in untested territory.
Circulating oil under enough pressure guarantees squirters are effective at reaching moving pistons at normal driving Rpm.
Not getting decently stable VVT Positioning and pistons cooling regardless of MOD-1 is in part why I bumped viscosity into W50 range.
I think, ECU needs a chance to stabilize its learned T-stat map given better oiling and voltage upgrades. Heat is practically removed from pistons ready for oil to be cooled through heat exchange.
At least, cooled rings are not actively getting carbonized to unbalance cyl. contributions.
We know the ECU manages the Tstat opening to bring up engine temps to evaporate oil contaminants such as water condensates and GDI gasoline.
I don't want to say anything negative about the cooling system until I fully understand how to make it perform well.
Right now...
We can remove extreme pistons heat reliably with the experimental MOD-4.
I am getting the sense that T-stat management is purely mapped and not really dynamic to keep a decent temp constant.
It's a bit counter intuitive: I do see more favorable engine temps running AC to trigger rad fan. As if ECU would normally delay running coolant fan within an extended range.
It may be that the single engine Bank-2 sensor was ridiculously affected by chassis voltage swings. That's a serious no-no but nothings impossible in untested territory.
Circulating oil under enough pressure guarantees squirters are effective at reaching moving pistons at normal driving Rpm.
Not getting decently stable VVT Positioning and pistons cooling regardless of MOD-1 is in part why I bumped viscosity into W50 range.
I think, ECU needs a chance to stabilize its learned T-stat map given better oiling and voltage upgrades. Heat is practically removed from pistons ready for oil to be cooled through heat exchange.
At least, cooled rings are not actively getting carbonized to unbalance cyl. contributions.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Dec 25, 2024 at 09:43 PM.
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From: Jakarta-Indonesia
2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
Oil squiters opening pressure been tested............ you can at least see what RPM is the guaranteed proper spray pattern because of sufficient pressure. Un-Plug oil solenoid I mean.
But it is 0-30W oil and at 30C temperature.
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...-pressure.html
But it is 0-30W oil and at 30C temperature.
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...-pressure.html
