What is this noise on startup?
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
working towards startup rattle
The sound track and your P0021 fault code evidence your engine is developing a VVT Gear lock pin issue.
This is normal with the stock oiling setup.
Limited oil pressure helps save gas but it forces camshaft VVT gears to lock/unlock countless times.
By the time the 4x VVT locks are totally ineffective, the engine will rattle at startup to then help shift the reluctor plate.
Every stage is setup to become increasingly more costly. Right now you don't need camshafts.
This is normal with the stock oiling setup.
Limited oil pressure helps save gas but it forces camshaft VVT gears to lock/unlock countless times.
By the time the 4x VVT locks are totally ineffective, the engine will rattle at startup to then help shift the reluctor plate.
Every stage is setup to become increasingly more costly. Right now you don't need camshafts.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Apr 18, 2025 at 03:25 AM.
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E350
The sound track and your P0021 fault code evidence your engine is developing a VVT Gear lock pin issue.
This is normal with the stock oiling setup.
Limited oil pressure helps save gas but it forces camshaft VVT gears to lock/unlock countless times.
By the time the 4x VVT locks are totally ineffective, the engine will rattle at startup to then help shift the reluctor plate.
Every stage is setup to become increasingly more costly. Right now you don't need camshafts.
This is normal with the stock oiling setup.
Limited oil pressure helps save gas but it forces camshaft VVT gears to lock/unlock countless times.
By the time the 4x VVT locks are totally ineffective, the engine will rattle at startup to then help shift the reluctor plate.
Every stage is setup to become increasingly more costly. Right now you don't need camshafts.
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
AVAILABLE OPTIONS....
The top suspect would be Bank2-Intake VVT and Bank1-Intake to follow.
The best thing to do is to diagnose exactly what's wrong BEFORE committing to expensive repairs. See that VVT rotate freely unlocked or not.
> PLAN B...
There are other ways to go about this according to your goals.
-- You can replace 2x chain tensioners and inspect C-valves when you inspect VVT locks.
-- You can decide to experiment better oiling such that gear locks are no longer necessary during run time.
The point is perfectly good VVT gears + tensioners can rattle simply because of aged thin oil drains out rapidly.
Oil totally matters in this hydraulic setup.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Apr 18, 2025 at 01:34 PM.
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E350
Right now one of your VVT Gear is likely unable to lock. You have options not to spend $4,500 right away.
The top suspect would be Bank2-Intake VVT and Bank1-Intake to follow.
The best thing to do is to diagnose exactly what's wrong BEFORE committing to expensive repairs.
There are other ways to go about this according to your goals.
You can replace 2x chain tensioners and inspect C-valves
You can decide to experiment better oiling such that gear locks are no longer necessary during run time.
The point is new VVT gears + tensioners can rattle simply because of old thin oil. Oil totally matters in this setup.
The top suspect would be Bank2-Intake VVT and Bank1-Intake to follow.
The best thing to do is to diagnose exactly what's wrong BEFORE committing to expensive repairs.
There are other ways to go about this according to your goals.
You can replace 2x chain tensioners and inspect C-valves
You can decide to experiment better oiling such that gear locks are no longer necessary during run time.
The point is new VVT gears + tensioners can rattle simply because of old thin oil. Oil totally matters in this setup.
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
$2,500 would be fair price
If you go the route of total repairs, get Fuel pump assembly and PCV breather kit replaced while valve cover are removed. It's just $200 parts without duplicate labor charges
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appreciate the insight I’m going to have a shop take a look at this
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Out Of Control!!
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
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2015 E63S Sedan, 2014 E550 coupe
Whatever you do, don’t ignore the issue and let it persist for months (you sound proactive, kudos!). Chain tensioners are not too expensive, and your cam timing window plates probably need resealed anyways.
The VVT gears can be pricey, and a good bit more labor involved to do them properly. They are easily diagnosed once the cam plates are opened up…but then you’re already in for a bit of the job
The VVT gears can be pricey, and a good bit more labor involved to do them properly. They are easily diagnosed once the cam plates are opened up…but then you’re already in for a bit of the job
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Read the FAQ at least https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...solenoids.html
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E350
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
chains are: OUT OF SCOPE.
When you hear keyword "timing chain": run the other way!
Don't fall for: we need to distmantle everything before we can give you an accurate numbers.
And then there is the afternoon phone call about: "we found additional damage for an extra $2000".
By the time the engine would require timing chains + guides the transmission would also be history.
Repairing a Benz is not about maximizing the bill with unneeded work... it's about solving an issue for a fair price.
Some hot turbo cars do burn up seals of their timing chain covers. A big job.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Apr 25, 2025 at 01:47 AM.
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you just need a honest trustworthy MB specialist shop... these engines never eat timing chains.
When you hear keyword "timing chain": run the other way!
Don't fall for: we need to distmantle everything before we can give you an accurate numbers.
And then there is the afternoon phone call about: "we found additional damage for an extra $2000".
By the time the engine would require timing chains + guides the transmission would also be history.
Repairing a Benz is not about maximizing the bill with unneeded work... it's about solving an issue for a fair price.
Some hot turbo cars do burn up seals of their timing chain covers. A big job.
When you hear keyword "timing chain": run the other way!
Don't fall for: we need to distmantle everything before we can give you an accurate numbers.
And then there is the afternoon phone call about: "we found additional damage for an extra $2000".
By the time the engine would require timing chains + guides the transmission would also be history.
Repairing a Benz is not about maximizing the bill with unneeded work... it's about solving an issue for a fair price.
Some hot turbo cars do burn up seals of their timing chain covers. A big job.
will update everyone when I get the vehicle back so they can reference that noise with what the issue ended up being
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2014 - W212.065 - E400 ( M276.820, 3 liter Turbo) RWD not Hybrid
We will see more VVT wear and tear this year and the next many years on this forum,,,,,,,, as these W212 M276 or M78 is piling up mileage
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E350
you just need a honest trustworthy MB specialist shop... these engines never eat timing chains.
When you hear keyword "timing chain": run the other way!
Don't fall for: we need to distmantle everything before we can give you an accurate numbers.
And then there is the afternoon phone call about: "we found additional damage for an extra $2000".
By the time the engine would require timing chains + guides the transmission would also be history.
Repairing a Benz is not about maximizing the bill with unneeded work... it's about solving an issue for a fair price.
Some hot turbo cars do burn up seals of their timing chain covers. A big job.
When you hear keyword "timing chain": run the other way!
Don't fall for: we need to distmantle everything before we can give you an accurate numbers.
And then there is the afternoon phone call about: "we found additional damage for an extra $2000".
By the time the engine would require timing chains + guides the transmission would also be history.
Repairing a Benz is not about maximizing the bill with unneeded work... it's about solving an issue for a fair price.
Some hot turbo cars do burn up seals of their timing chain covers. A big job.
well, the shop is quoting me 2500 to do the timing chain tensioners, and when I mentioned the gears the person in the service department said the tech would want to do the chains if he has to do the gears because they wear together or something to that effect. But as of now they just want to do the TSB and I assume they will turn the cam gears over and notice they need to be replaced. Hopefully I can convince them to just replace the gears.
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
$2500 TENSIONERS QUOTE ... STOP!
well, the shop is quoting me $2,500. to do the timing chain tensioners,
when I mentioned the gears the person in the service department said the tech would want to do the chains if he has to do the gears because they wear together or something to that effect.
But as of now they just want to do the TSB and I assume they will turn the cam gears over and notice they need to be replaced.
Hopefully I can convince them to just replace the gears.
when I mentioned the gears the person in the service department said the tech would want to do the chains if he has to do the gears because they wear together or something to that effect.
But as of now they just want to do the TSB and I assume they will turn the cam gears over and notice they need to be replaced.
Hopefully I can convince them to just replace the gears.
$2500 to replace 2x $100 TENSIONERS ONLY is extortion!!
What's the quoted price for one or two intake VVT Gear replacement?
That's what you want to know before tab goes over $5,000. mark.
"Doing the check-valves TSB" means acting as if this was still misterious issue. In 2025: this is ridiculous!
> ZERO MISTERY....
The deal is low oil pump pressure after 10,000Mi interval on ninimal viscosity wears out camshaft gear lock-pins. Not the chains.
I bet $50 your 4x CPS are leaking oil into harness.
How much to replace during this Tensioner job? Should be $50Ea x4 + 30mn.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; May 1, 2025 at 02:11 PM.
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Run OUT!! It's up to you to get a real quote from a honest shop.
$2500 to replace 2x $100 TENSIONERS ONLY is extortion!!
What's the quoted price for one or two intake VVT Gear replacement?
That's what you want to know before tab goes over $5,000. mark.
"Doing the check-valves TSB" means acting as if this was still misterious issue. In 2025: this is ridiculous!
> ZERO MISTERY....
The deal is low oil pump pressure after 10,000Mi interval on ninimal viscosity wears out camshaft gear lock-pins. Not the chains.
I bet $50 your 4x CPS are leaking oil into harness.
How much to replace during this Tensioner job? Should be $50Ea x4 + 30mn.
$2500 to replace 2x $100 TENSIONERS ONLY is extortion!!
What's the quoted price for one or two intake VVT Gear replacement?
That's what you want to know before tab goes over $5,000. mark.
"Doing the check-valves TSB" means acting as if this was still misterious issue. In 2025: this is ridiculous!
> ZERO MISTERY....
The deal is low oil pump pressure after 10,000Mi interval on ninimal viscosity wears out camshaft gear lock-pins. Not the chains.
I bet $50 your 4x CPS are leaking oil into harness.
How much to replace during this Tensioner job? Should be $50Ea x4 + 30mn.
im realizing what you mean now. Adding edit. But what should just the repair for the tensioners run? They are at about 150/hr for labor
Last edited by TL200; May 2, 2025 at 12:51 AM.
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Run OUT!! It's up to you to get a real quote from a honest shop.
$2500 to replace 2x $100 TENSIONERS ONLY is extortion!!
What's the quoted price for one or two intake VVT Gear replacement?
That's what you want to know before tab goes over $5,000. mark.
"Doing the check-valves TSB" means acting as if this was still misterious issue. In 2025: this is ridiculous!
> ZERO MISTERY....
The deal is low oil pump pressure after 10,000Mi interval on ninimal viscosity wears out camshaft gear lock-pins. Not the chains.
I bet $50 your 4x CPS are leaking oil into harness.
How much to replace during this Tensioner job? Should be $50Ea x4 + 30mn.
$2500 to replace 2x $100 TENSIONERS ONLY is extortion!!
What's the quoted price for one or two intake VVT Gear replacement?
That's what you want to know before tab goes over $5,000. mark.
"Doing the check-valves TSB" means acting as if this was still misterious issue. In 2025: this is ridiculous!
> ZERO MISTERY....
The deal is low oil pump pressure after 10,000Mi interval on ninimal viscosity wears out camshaft gear lock-pins. Not the chains.
I bet $50 your 4x CPS are leaking oil into harness.
How much to replace during this Tensioner job? Should be $50Ea x4 + 30mn.
based on what I see to get to the tensioners it seems to be a similar amount of labor to access those as to also access the camshaft gears, if that is the case wouldn’t the job be about that cost but possible add cost of the camshaft gears?
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Update, pulling the car out of the shop. Don’t want to be on the hook for a whole timing job when the vvt gears are shot. Going to just dump it and take a loss. No good EU mechanics in my area
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
DUPLICATE LABOR
Imagine sparkplug job could be charged 6x the duplicate labor of removing components besides pros use shortcuts to speed up book-time.
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quote is about 650-700 just for parts about 1800 for labor
Last edited by TL200; May 2, 2025 at 01:03 PM.
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W212 MY'14 M276-3.5NA @75kMi
WRONG WAY
"Doing the TSB"
Owners end up with a tall bill and the same issue left undiagnosed to begin with.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; May 2, 2025 at 01:11 PM.
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I am taking a closer look under the hood at this thing, it seems accessing these camshaft gears takes less than an hour. If I was to tackle replacing them myself does the motor need to be locked or any other procedure taken outside of replacing it?
