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Typical rattle on startup. Replaced both upper timing chain tensioners and the issue remains. I inspected the VVTs while I was in there and they all looked good. My next guess is the lower timing chain tensioner, but despite dozens of online resources describing the replacement of the uppers, I can find NOTHING on the lower. In fact I couldn't even find a mention of there even being one, until I found the exploded diagram on FCP Euro that shows a third tensioner. I am assuming the whole front cover needs to come off to change this? Anyone have a reference as to how bad a job this is? Part #21, part number 276-050-06-11-64.
At the least you MUST state what engine model yours is and don't let people wonder.
It looks like M276, 6 cylinder and no balance shaft.
The lower timing chain tensioner belongs to ENGINE OIL PUMP. So this is a 3rd timing chain tensioner and it has its own chain.
VVT each bank get its own timing chain and tensioner, 1st and 2nd unit.
So total is 3.
The rattle is probably from your VVT sprocket itself. It will happen, they are consumable items, but high mileage ones.
Do you have a fast Xentry , like the one from benzninja.com ?
If you do, log it from engine dead to engine start. When it rattles, the degree values will be whacky for sure.
Read here : https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w...rt-idling.html
Apologies, yes it's a '14 M276 engine. Also when I replaced the upper tensioners I confirmed I do have check valves installed as well.
I found a very good video on diagnosing VVTs, and mine are doing none of the things this person had going on in the video - puking oil, "jumping" etc. Do they still fail without being visibly bad? I don't have a Xentry, and from the link you posted I'm not going to be able to get this data with my iCarsoft.
I am really hoping it's not the VVTs, at almost $1k apiece even if I did them myself, that's getting dangerously close to what the car's worth given its' 190,000 mi.
The puking oil & jumping video is when VVT locking pin is really bad.
Rattle sound may not be as bad to the level of oil puking.........and yet still rattle.
I know it is expensive x 4
Do you generally have to replace the oil control valve (in the center of the sprocket that mounts it) or just the sprockets themselves? Are there any actual moving parts to the valve that wear out?
Do you generally have to replace the oil control valve (in the center of the sprocket that mounts it) or just the sprockets themselves? Are there any actual moving parts to the valve that wear out?
Always replace the VVT sprocket and the oil control valve ( its middle/center ) together. Oil control valve is cheap.
If you can be patient for say 3 weeks or so.... you can try a rebuild VVT company in Europe.
Here : US$530 excluding courier cost into Poland and back to you in USA, which is using DHL, US$120 each way I think its about right. So extra US$240 or so. https://mehenker.com/en/regeneration...&id_currency=3
Supposedly 2 business days is the rebuild time. Lets say 5 business days or 1 week.
You must watch their utube videos, their machine shop is awesome.
1. It seems really unlikely that all four of my cam phasers are bad, although it's generally accepted that the Bank 1 intake usually goes first. If none of my phasers are throwing codes, or clicking as you rotate the engine over, or jumping / puking oil, and I don't have the fancy mapping software, is there a way to narrow down which one might need to be replaced? I had it in my head that I needed to spend $4000 on four phasers but that's really unlikely; I would like to send mine out but I feel like shipping to Poland is risky and I am REALLY worried about my ability to keep all of the chains in time, with all four phasers and tensioners removed for a few weeks. Also, would have to find alternate transportation for a few weeks. So right now if I can pin down which one is bad, I may just replace that one. And I don't really want to just go and assume it's the bank 1 intake, because let's be honest this is a pain in the *** job that I just did two weeks ago to replace the tensioners, and I don't feel like doing it four more times in a process of elimination.
2. I've done a search and come up blank, does anyone know of a shop in the US that, like Meheneker in Poland, rebuilds your phasers? I feel like even if they have the same turnaround time of 2-3 days that Meheneker does, it's a little more realistic that I can overnight them the phasers and ask for the same in return, and have the car down for less than a full week. Also I kind of feel like there's less of a chance of them getting lost en route (as have some other, less important parts I ordered from Germany two weeks ago that are now MIA).
1. It seems really unlikely that all four of my cam phasers are bad, although it's generally accepted that the Bank 1 intake usually goes first. If none of my phasers are throwing codes, or clicking as you rotate the engine over, or jumping / puking oil, and I don't have the fancy mapping software, is there a way to narrow down which one might need to be replaced? I had it in my head that I needed to spend $4000 on four phasers but that's really unlikely; I would like to send mine out but I feel like shipping to Poland is risky and I am REALLY worried about my ability to keep all of the chains in time, with all four phasers and tensioners removed for a few weeks. Also, would have to find alternate transportation for a few weeks. So right now if I can pin down which one is bad, I may just replace that one. And I don't really want to just go and assume it's the bank 1 intake, because let's be honest this is a pain in the *** job that I just did two weeks ago to replace the tensioners, and I don't feel like doing it four more times in a process of elimination.
2. I've done a search and come up blank, does anyone know of a shop in the US that, like Meheneker in Poland, rebuilds your phasers? I feel like even if they have the same turnaround time of 2-3 days that Meheneker does, it's a little more realistic that I can overnight them the phasers and ask for the same in return, and have the car down for less than a full week. Also I kind of feel like there's less of a chance of them getting lost en route (as have some other, less important parts I ordered from Germany two weeks ago that are now MIA).
Thanks,
Darel
You have options including a free one. At least now you're not going after lower chain tensioner - Rattling is impossible there!
Rattling is primarily the job of intake VVT's, usually Bk-2 driver side before passenger.
It seems the fuel pump is helping to hold back the Bk-1 camshaft from rattling.
Inspect camshaft for looseness through CPS opening.
Also a hard HPFP can knock at startup with slight delay.
Can you capture a recording of your startup racket ?
> FREE PLAN-B ?
To prevent all this unnecessary repair from maturing, seriously concider adopting better oiling than stock setup (MOD-1 to X). The lock-pin gets shaved by marginal pressure.
You can do this now and experiment how well it disables rattling as-is with zero VVT repair.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Jul 9, 2025 at 02:47 PM.
That's all I did on my 2012 E63 AMG M157. I "Think" it helped the chain rattle. I, like you have done, I'm going to get the "Rattle" kit from FCP Euro and see if that stops/helps it. Like you I have no lights and car runs great!! I just purchased it and it has 138K on it. Keep us posted
That's all I did on my 2012 E63 AMG M157. I "Think" it helped the chain rattle. I, like you have done, I'm going to get the "Rattle" kit from FCP Euro and see if that stops/helps it. Like you I have no lights and car runs great!! I just purchased it and it has 138K on it. Keep us posted
Do you have the standard cold-start rattle at 138kMi ?
Experiment saving the VVT Gear job with better oiling + simply 2x tensioners only.
The startup nagging is not as important as runtime wear from the low pressure - Camshaft may shift reluctors or not.
The call to spend now more than car value is on you vs. experimenting free oiling upgrade. I have 20,000.Mi on it...
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Jul 10, 2025 at 04:39 PM.
Thanks for the reply. The rattle lasts for maybe 3-5 minutes after start up and then disappears. Thoughts? Do the tensioner upgrade? A full timing chain replacement upgrade or as the Indy shop that represented the seller said wait until codes and deal with it. I know the owner of the Indy shop.
Thanks for the reply. The rattle lasts for maybe 3-5 minutes after start up and then disappears. Thoughts?
Do the tensioner upgrade? A full timing chain replacement upgrade or as the Indy shop that represented the seller said wait until codes and deal with it. I know the owner of the Indy shop.
!!!! OUCH !!! Don't wait for failure of camshafts reluctor plates then you'll be in for $6,000.USD repairs.
I seriously doubt timing chains are bad.
5mn rattle is the longer ever... you better get that inspected before committing to repairs.
VVT Rattle is 10 to 15 seconds not 300 Seconds.
As suggested you can try experimental steps. Doing nothing is the wrong choice with this.
Last edited by CaliBenzDriver; Jul 10, 2025 at 10:53 PM.
Thanks for the reply. The rattle lasts for maybe 3-5 minutes after start up and then disappears. Thoughts? Do the tensioner upgrade? A full timing chain replacement upgrade or as the Indy shop that represented the seller said wait until codes and deal with it. I know the owner of the Indy shop.
DANG !!!!! That is like Billboard Top 100, 1 full song duration.
Serious, this is very very bad.
I recorded my rattle but not sure how to get it on here. In any case mine lasts 4 seconds.
I did narrow it down to the driver's side. Dealer wants $4k to do all four phasers, considering they are over $900 each from Pelican or FCP Euro that's not bad. I am going to drop it off to them and let them do an official diagnosis just to confirm, but if I can talk them into replacing only the bad one and then do the oiling mods to try and save the rest, I may just let them have at it. If I can get the noise fixed for $2k or less I'll let them handle it so I don't have to waste another full day in 90+ heat and still run the risk of getting it all back together a tooth off and grenading my engine.
I recorded my rattle but not sure how to get it on here. In any case mine lasts 4 seconds.
I did narrow it down to the driver's side. Dealer wants $4k to do all four phasers, considering they are over $900 each from Pelican or FCP Euro that's not bad. I am going to drop it off to them and let them do an official diagnosis just to confirm, but if I can talk them into replacing only the bad one and then do the oiling mods to try and save the rest, I may just let them have at it. If I can get the noise fixed for $2k or less I'll let them handle it so I don't have to waste another full day in 90+ heat and still run the risk of getting it all back together a tooth off and grenading my engine.
I doubt the dealer will swap your 4x phasers for $4k... must be a little misunderstanding: more like $4k Ea. Intake!
Inquire about replacing chain tensioner during VVT job + Leaky Cam sensors (CPS).
I like Darel recorded a cold start on my car but found the site doesn't support mp4 formatted files. I would really like to find an M157 engine and compare it's sound to mine.
I recorded my rattle but not sure how to get it on here. In any case mine lasts 4 seconds.
I did narrow it down to the driver's side. Dealer wants $4k to do all four phasers, considering they are over $900 each from Pelican or FCP Euro that's not bad. I am going to drop it off to them and let them do an official diagnosis just to confirm, but if I can talk them into replacing only the bad one and then do the oiling mods to try and save the rest, I may just let them have at it. If I can get the noise fixed for $2k or less I'll let them handle it so I don't have to waste another full day in 90+ heat and still run the risk of getting it all back together a tooth off and grenading my engine.
no dealer will touch the oil pump solenoid unless to be replaced.
$4K for 4 VVT? Not a chance with original parts. Just parts and shops miscellaneous will eat the $4K. Then add labor. If by any chance they have to take the head cover off, repairing one side of the engine alone may reach $5K in a heartbeat at standard dealer rates
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