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2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Maintenance agreements: Cautionary tale
I do not remember reading of this before, so if it is a duplication, I apologize:
I leased my 2019 E450 on December 27, 2018 for three years, 10,000 miles per year. I included in the lease the two-year, 20,000 mile maintenance agreement which includes the “A” and “B” service. By putting the maintenance in the lease, the cost is residualized.
I had the first service, the “A” service done on December 30, 2019. The mileage was 7638.
Yesterday, I had the second service, the “B” service done. The mileage was 19,693. Everything was fine with the car.
Today the dealer called me and said there was a problem: According to the dealer, I waited too long to have the service done: I had to have the service done my March, three months leeway, otherwise the service lapsed and he wanted me to pay for the “B” service.
I said that was completely unacceptable: I paid for the service and when I choose to have it done was my decision.
I also pointed out that we had covid, the service department was on limited schedule in the spring and in March I was not vaccinated.
The dealer relented.
A cautionary tale: If you buy the two-year maintenance plan, you must use it within the first 27 months or lose it: This despite the fact that the service agreement says:
" Service occurs once per year or every 10,000 miles, and includes an oil change, filter replacements, fluid check, multi-point inspection and more."(emphasis added)
The agreement does not say once a year or 10,000 miles whichever comes first, but rather once per year or every 10,000 miles.
Well, the phrasing is perhaps not clear, but the car and Mercedes me does tell you when you are due for service. It's either 12 months from the last service or 10,000 miles from the last service. That's when you are supposed to get it serviced and not when you feel like it. I understand that with COVID things are a bit upside down, but the car doesn't care about COVID. Service is due, when it is due. The maintenance programs are designed to cover the factory recommended scheduled maintenance and they fully cover them if you comply with the schedule. You do get a grace period of 3 months it looks like with the 2 year agreement to account for scheduling delays. From what I remember this is all documented in the maintenance agreement and on mbusa.com. I have the 4-year agreement with my C63 and I'm well aware that it has to be used within I believe 4.5 years or something like that, which is no problem. I've had the first Service A and B done. A was at 10k miles when the car told me, and B was 12 months later because I drove less during the lockdowns. Again, the car told me when to do it.
Last edited by superswiss; Aug 5, 2021 at 08:53 PM.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by superswiss
Well, the phrasing is perhaps not clear, but the car and Mercedes me does tell you when you are due for service. It's either 12 months from the last service or 10,000 miles from the last service. That's when you are supposed to get it serviced and not when you feel like it. I understand that with COVID things are a bit upside down, but the car doesn't care about COVID. Service is due, when it is due. The maintenance programs are designed to cover the factory recommended scheduled maintenance and they fully cover them if you comply with the schedule. You do get a grace period of 3 months it looks like with the 2 year agreement to account for scheduling delays. From what I remember this is all documented in the maintenance agreement and on mbusa.com. I have the 4-year agreement with my C63 and I'm well aware that it has to be used within I believe 4.5 years or something like that, which is no problem. I've had the first Service A and B done. A was at 10k miles when the car told me, and B was 12 months later because I drove less during the lockdowns. Again, the car told me when to do it.
I understand what your are saying, but it is always important to look at the documents for support and clarification.
That document, which appears on MBUSA.com which I quoted is quite clear: It does not say, as you suggest one year or 10,000 miles whichever comes first.
To the contrary it says: one year or every 10,000 miles: using the common definition of "or" it means:
Every 10,000 miles or
Every year
This is your choice. What could be clearer.
Keep in mind that you have already paid extra for the maintenance. If Mercedes wanted to limit that when the service must be done it is their obligation to do so in clear and concise language. This Mercedes has failed to do.
Finally, and this is the utmost importance: No claim is being made: What we are talking about here, is Mercedes refuses to honor the service agreement you paid for because you choose to have the service done at 10,000 miles instead of within two years of the date of purchase. Mercedes wants you to pay twice for this service.
That simple is not acceptable.
Of course when I pointed this out to the dealer they relented, so my interpretation is correct. The point of my post is to alert others, who for one one reason or another have decided to have service done at 10,000 miles instead of a specific time to be aware that they might have a problem with their dealer when it comes time to pay for the service.
Fine print, terms and conditions, and so on and so on. I am not a fan of clichés, but yes, the devil is in the details. Is it too much trouble for the dealer to send an email or letter? My doctors do. There is CRM software that does this and most "sales" businesses use one. Plus, and here is my biggest gripe -- I get non-stop solicitations, junk mail, etc., about new models, specials on service work, discount for this, special for that -- BUT, they can't notify me in a case like this? BS. I had a similar problem with Toyota and one of their dealers -- non-stop solicitations for new lease specials, 0% financing rate programs, specials for new brakes and rotors, all kinds of things! However, when there was an "Extended Warranty Program" (torque converter), with a deadline, and Toyota paying to replace it (at a cost of about $3000) -- I never heard a word from them! Customer service? Client experience? Sure, I get it.
I understand what your are saying, but it is always important to look at the documents for support and clarification.
That document, which appears on MBUSA.com which I quoted is quite clear: It does not say, as you suggest one year or 10,000 miles whichever comes first.
To the contrary it says: one year or every 10,000 miles: using the common definition of "or" it means:
Every 10,000 miles or
Every year
This is your choice. What could be clearer.
Keep in mind that you have already paid extra for the maintenance. If Mercedes wanted to limit that when the service must be done it is their obligation to do so in clear and concise language. This Mercedes has failed to do.
Finally, and this is the utmost importance: No claim is being made: What we are talking about here, is Mercedes refuses to honor the service agreement you paid for because you choose to have the service done at 10,000 miles instead of within two years of the date of purchase. Mercedes wants you to pay twice for this service.
That simple is not acceptable.
Of course when I pointed this out to the dealer they relented, so my interpretation is correct. The point of my post is to alert others, who for one one reason or another have decided to have service done at 10,000 miles instead of a specific time to be aware that they might have a problem with their dealer when it comes time to pay for the service.
Perhaps they need to work on the language and I'm too lazy to go back and read it because the service intervals were clear to me going into the purchase. Not sure why they might not be clear to anybody else, since you don't really even have to think about them as, as I said, the car and Mercedes me keeps track of it and reminds you when it's due. Just need to follow it.
I understand what your are saying, but it is always important to look at the documents for support and clarification.
That document, which appears on MBUSA.com which I quoted is quite clear: It does not say, as you suggest one year or 10,000 miles whichever comes first.
To the contrary it says: one year or every 10,000 miles: using the common definition of "or" it means:
Every 10,000 miles or
Every year
This is your choice. What could be clearer.
Keep in mind that you have already paid extra for the maintenance. If Mercedes wanted to limit that when the service must be done it is their obligation to do so in clear and concise language. This Mercedes has failed to do.
Finally, and this is the utmost importance: No claim is being made: What we are talking about here, is Mercedes refuses to honor the service agreement you paid for because you choose to have the service done at 10,000 miles instead of within two years of the date of purchase. Mercedes wants you to pay twice for this service.
That simple is not acceptable.
Of course when I pointed this out to the dealer they relented, so my interpretation is correct. The point of my post is to alert others, who for one one reason or another have decided to have service done at 10,000 miles instead of a specific time to be aware that they might have a problem with their dealer when it comes time to pay for the service.
I’m sorry, I don’t understand your post at all. I’m only a high school graduate. Your use of semantics makes no sense to me. You went 19 months and 12,000 over. The language makes sense to me. Once you did the first service, you had either 1 year or 10,000 miles to do your next service. With leeway of course. Sounds simple to me.
And for reference, the app is very clear about when your next service is due. It either shows an actual date, or the mileage of when your next service is due. Mine currently is time based, because I haven't driven enough since the last service. I think it comes down to using the provided tools properly.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by Elvisfan0108
I’m sorry, I don’t understand your post at all. I’m only a high school graduate. Your use of semantics makes no sense to me. You went 19 months and 12,000 over. The language makes sense to me. Once you did the first service, you had either 1 year or 10,000 miles to do your next service. With leeway of course. Sounds simple to me.
Here is how I see it - and actually the way it is:
When you pay for something in advance and the person who is required to give you what you paid for and then wants to deny that service to you they must show you in clear, plain and concise language why they are no longer obligated to do the service they contracted to do.
Here again the key is to look at the language in the written agreement: That is what controls: not a notification on your dashboard.
The written agreement is clear and unambiguous The written agreement does not require service within a year: It gives you the choice: one year or 10,000 miles.
Again, the dealer agreed with me: I did the service within 20,000 miles. It was only the next day that the dealer called me. So the dealer also was not aware of the one year requirement either!
Again purpose of the post is to make others aware of this potential problem. Remember I said this is a "cautionary tale".
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by superswiss
And for reference, the app is very clear about when your next service is due. It either shows an actual date, or the mileage of when your next service is due. Mine currently is time based, because I haven't driven enough since the last service. I think it comes down to using the provided tools properly.
I do not have this app. have no idea what the app is nor does it matter:
You have an agreement in writing which controls - not an app nor your dash.
If Mercedes had notified me in writing in December, 2020 that for them to honor the service agreement I had to have the service done in December, then that might be relevant. But of course no such written notification was ever sent.
Moreover it is hornbook law that any ambiguity in an agreement is to be to the detriment of the person who wrote the agreement. Here Mercedes wrote the agreement. If there is any ambiguity in the agreement then the ambiguity must be go against the party who wrote the agreement.
Here Mercedes wrote one year or 10,000 miles - not whichever comes first. IMO there is no ambiguity. But if there is any, then the ambiguity must be determined against Mercedes - and the dealer agreed.
Suggest you check with your lawyer. I am confident he/she/they will agree with me.
I do not have this app. have no idea what the app is nor does it matter:
You have an agreement in writing which controls - not an app nor your dash.
If Mercedes had notified me in writing in December, 2020 that for them to honor the service agreement I had to have the service done in December, then that might be relevant. But of course no such written notification was ever sent.
Moreover it is hornbook law that any ambiguity in an agreement is to be to the detriment of the person who wrote the agreement. Here Mercedes wrote the agreement. If there is any ambiguity in the agreement then the ambiguity must be go against the party who wrote the agreement.
Here Mercedes wrote one year or 10,000 miles - not whichever comes first. IMO there is no ambiguity. But if there is any, then the ambiguity must be determined against Mercedes - and the dealer agreed.
Suggest you check with your lawyer. I am confident he/she/they will agree with me.
I don’t think the dealer agreed with you. I think the dealer didn’t think it was worth arguing with you. You did have the Covid argument. I have never been confused about how the system works.
Last edited by Elvisfan0108; Aug 6, 2021 at 12:07 AM.
I do not have this app. have no idea what the app is nor does it matter:
You have an agreement in writing which controls - not an app nor your dash.
If Mercedes had notified me in writing in December, 2020 that for them to honor the service agreement I had to have the service done in December, then that might be relevant. But of course no such written notification was ever sent.
Moreover it is hornbook law that any ambiguity in an agreement is to be to the detriment of the person who wrote the agreement. Here Mercedes wrote the agreement. If there is any ambiguity in the agreement then the ambiguity must be go against the party who wrote the agreement.
Here Mercedes wrote one year or 10,000 miles - not whichever comes first. IMO there is no ambiguity. But if there is any, then the ambiguity must be determined against Mercedes - and the dealer agreed.
Suggest you check with your lawyer. I am confident he/she/they will agree with me.
This is the Mercedes me connect app and comes free with your car along with the services for the first 3 years. When you leased the car, the sales guy was supposed to get you setup. We all have this app. It allows to remote unlock/lock the car, remote start it and get status of the car along with sending destinations to the navigation system and other features. For you not to be aware of this kinda explains a lot. BTW, you don't really need the app. You can see the same information in the instrument cluster.
Anyway, the reality is they can't actually make you pay in retrospect. You got an estimate that you signed and they agreed to and they gave you the final invoice that you signed and agreed to. They have no leg to stand on now. They realized that your SA screwed up, because they should have told you at the time of the service that you have to pay for it and put it on the estimate, but now they have no signature and no authorization from you. They went ahead and did the service and it's now on their dime. Whoever contacted you was trying to cover their behind and see if you are naive enough to voluntarily pay. This is really besides the point. The warning is unnecessary as you can see from most responses here. Seems like so far everybody who has replied seems to be fully aware of the service schedule etc. except for you.
I agree w jtk. I had similar experience. Car had 1700 miles in 18 months. State inspection was similarly overdue as well - due to covid.
im aware the services are recommended at 1 yr 10k, but the service contract is to defray the cost of scheduled maintainence, at the prepaid price, not constrained by a certain interval.
in addition, my car’s service indicator indicated a service due at only 6 months, 1000 mikes. (So the app isn’t always meaningful). I called dealer who advised service was not yet necessary, and offered to reset it - I told them I’d reset it myself.
One year later, they provided a ‘b’ service although I authorized the ‘a’ service. (I have a 4 yr contract).
dealer explained to me that mbusa would only pay them for ‘b’. (Did I really need new cabin filter?). I’m not sure my matter is resolved, but I was/am quite upset.
The dealer did offer to provide my service for free. As a long time customer (and with prepaid maintainence), I didn’t think that was optimal either.
I think mbusa needs to honor the spirit of its agreements and not employ a ‘gotcha’.
in addition, my car’s service indicator indicated a service due at only 6 months, 1000 mikes. (So the app isn’t always meaningful). I called dealer who advised service was not yet necessary, and offered to reset it - I told them I’d reset it myself.
The service clock starts when the car has been produced and filled with oil. If the car sits on a lot for a while before it's being bought, then the first service can become due very quickly. Some dealerships reset the service reminder before delivery. The better ones do an oil change at the same time, so the oil isn't actually older than the service indicator suggests. The maintenance contract covers all services that become due within the timeframe and mileage it covers. It's actually not a specific number of services, so if the service reminder indicates that the car needs a service after 6 months, it will be covered along with all the next ones as long as you get them done as they become due within the covered timeframe.
I'm really not sure where the ambiguity is. The service packages are even named 2 years or 20k miles, 3 years or 30k miles, 4 years or 40k miles. What they cover is right in the name. I'm not sure how this can be read as anything other than whichever comes first, and English isn't even my first language. With the 2 year package, if the service is outside 2 years + the grace period or the car has more than 20k miles, it's no longer covered. You can buy another prepaid package at that point that covers you for the next 2 years or 20k miles or whatever you choose. It's like a Netflix subscription. You can't call up Netflix and tell them you didn't have time to watch that movie you really wanted to watch during the subscription timeframe and they should let you watch it for free. The subscription is over when it's over.
These are use it or lose it agreements.
Last edited by superswiss; Aug 6, 2021 at 04:03 AM.
They’re not sold as use it or lose it imo (I’ve purchased these agreements with leased cars for yrs). Unlike netflix - which is clearly a monthly subscription for unlimited access - the purchaser here has prepaid for something she expects will be provided..
the reason these plans are purchased is to provide a prenegotiated price in exchange for the prepayment. So, it seems unfair to get nothing in return (the best or nothing?)
the fact that dealers themselves seem to be challenged by this policy, speaks to the ambiguity.
To the OP, l would fight like hell! The prepaid maintenance is paid to the dealership not to MBUsa, right? If you paid for it " what difference does it make" (by HC) when it is done?
Just to add to the story, I decided to change my oil at 5K miles the old school way and guess what engine main seal is leaking! I had the car in 4 different times and of course this was never mentioned on their inspections. Seems like the steelership is after your and my $! I am still under warranty so it will be on MB's dime to fix the rear seal. I do believe they would have discovered the leak at the very first day l am out of warranty!
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by LaciCLK320
To the OP, l would fight like hell! The prepaid maintenance is paid to the dealership not to MBUsa, right? If you paid for it " what difference does it make" (by HC) when it is done?
Just to add to the story, I decided to change my oil at 5K miles the old school way and guess what engine main seal is leaking! I had the car in 4 different times and of course this was never mentioned on their inspections. Seems like the steelership is after your and my $! I am still under warranty so it will be on MB's dime to fix the rear seal. I do believe they would have discovered the leak at the very first day l am out of warranty!
Actually the prepaid maintenance goes to MB not the dealer. You can use any dealer to have the work done. The dealer who does the work gets paid by MB.
Assume you drove 5,000 miles the first year and had the "A" service done. Because of covid, out of the country, etc. the second year you put only 2,000 miles on the car. The "B" service relates to mileage items: cabin filter, change of brake fluid, etc. I would not change the cabin filters, the brake fluid, etc. with only 7,000 miles on the car.
I agree with you 100%: This is my car, I prepaid for the service just do the service when I bring the car in.
I thought it outrageous that having already paid for the "B" service, the dealer wanted me to pay a second time.
The purpose of this post is to alert others that MB, at least with my dealer, may try to deny service if it is not done on a yearly basis rather than every 10,000 miles as clearly provided in the prepaid maintenance agreement.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by superswiss
The service clock starts when the car has been produced and filled with oil. If the car sits on a lot for a while before it's being bought, then the first service can become due very quickly. Some dealerships reset the service reminder before delivery. The better ones do an oil change at the same time, so the oil isn't actually older than the service indicator suggests. The maintenance contract covers all services that become due within the timeframe and mileage it covers. It's actually not a specific number of services, so if the service reminder indicates that the car needs a service after 6 months, it will be covered along with all the next ones as long as you get them done as they become due within the covered timeframe.
I'm really not sure where the ambiguity is. The service packages are even named 2 years or 20k miles, 3 years or 30k miles, 4 years or 40k miles. What they cover is right in the name. I'm not sure how this can be read as anything other than whichever comes first, and English isn't even my first language. With the 2 year package, if the service is outside 2 years + the grace period or the car has more than 20k miles, it's no longer covered. You can buy another prepaid package at that point that covers you for the next 2 years or 20k miles or whatever you choose. It's like a Netflix subscription. You can't call up Netflix and tell them you didn't have time to watch that movie you really wanted to watch during the subscription timeframe and they should let you watch it for free. The subscription is over when it's over.
These are use it or lose it agreements.
I am sorry, but you could not be more wrong: this is not a use it or lose it agreement. No where in the prepaid agreement does it say "use it or lose it". I think your arguments are facile.
You must read what the prepaid agreement says - not what you think it says: It does not say "one year or 10,000 miles whichever comes first", nor does it even say "one year or 10,000 miles" as you posted above: what it does say is,
"once per year or every 10,000 miles"
The key here is "every 10,000 miles" (In your posts you keep leaving out "every" before 10,000, 20,000 etc. I assume this was an error of omission, not commission and not done deliberately.) This is clear and unambiguous: do the service every 10,000 miles or one year - your choice. That means at 10,000, 20,000 or 30,000 miles.
The dash board and apps are at best reminders and have absolutely nothing to do with the prepaid maintenance agreement which is a contract between you and MB. The terms of the contract bind MB.
I went through this as well. Prepaid the service, the cutoff came in the midst of the covid lockdown, and when I got the service done they would not pay. Eventually the CAC made it right.
Seems like there are two ways to look at it:
-The legal constraints of the agreement. In this case MB wins, obviously.
-Or in "do the right thing" terms. To be really simple about it, I paid for a service that MB did not provide. They kept my money, didn't do the work for which that money paid. And there is zero basis for saying the value of the prepayment diminished when that clock ran out, obviously. The money wasn't somehow "used up" because too much time passed.
The idea that the company would pocket the money and do nothing for it, because the customer missed the cutoff, is pretty heinous. I can see a situation where they say something like, "The time period to use your prepaid service has passed, so we are refunding the unused portion less a 15% withholding" - or something along those lines.
But flat out taking a customer's money and doing no work for it...in my world that's just theft.
Lesson learned, though, and won't happen with the next one.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by Optics76
-The legal constraints of the agreement. In this case MB wins, obviously.
.
Just curious:
When the prepaid agreement says ""once per year or every 10,000 miles" why do you say that "MB wins, obviously". ?
I could not agree with you more: MB has our money and now refuses to perform the service you paid for: then the least they could do is return my money! But to try to keep the money and not do the service - how is that different than a theft?
When the prepaid agreement says ""once per year or every 10,000 miles" why do you say that "MB wins, obviously". ?
I could not agree with you more: MB has our money and now refuses to perform the service you paid for: then the least they could do is return my money! But to try to keep the money and not do the service - how is that different than a theft?
There are 2 different issues here. Forget about the fact that you exceeded both the miles and time on the service. That’s a maintenance issue. Whenever you had the service done, it should be covered. You paid for it.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by Elvisfan0108
There are 2 different issues here. Forget about the fact that you exceeded both the miles and time on the service. That’s a maintenance issue. Whenever you had the service done, it should be covered. You paid for it.
100% agreement with you on time, but not not on mileage. I agree with you that is wrong to conflate the two. They are separate and distinct.
If I had a claim under warranty, and delayed service beyond a year to 20,000 miles, that is different than paying for something and then MB refuses to do it.
Here is a question and there is a whole thread on this: Having done the "B" service in August at 19,000 miles, assume between now and December I put only 1,500 miles on my car, which is quite likely. To comply with the Mercedes warranty, do I have to do the "A" service in December which would be three years? Remember only 4 months and 1,500 miles since the last oil change?
100% agreement with you on time, but not not on mileage. I agree with you that is wrong to conflate the two. They are separate and distinct.
If I had a claim under warranty, and delayed service beyond a year to 20,000 miles, that is different than paying for something and then MB refuses to do it.
Here is a question and there is a whole thread on this: Having done the "B" service in August at 19,000 miles, assume between now and December I put only 1,500 miles on my car, which is quite likely. To comply with the Mercedes warranty, do I have to do the "A" service in December which would be three years? Remember only 4 months and 1,500 miles since the last oil change?
This has been discussed. In my opinion, it’s a year from the last service if you don’t make 10k miles. This is why it’s important to stay on schedule. So for you , I would say next august. Or 10k miles from your last service. How MB handles it, I don’t know.
2019 E 450, 2016 E350 4matic (retired), 2018 Ford Edge Sport, 2008 Porsche Boxster
Originally Posted by Elvisfan0108
This has been discussed. In my opinion, it’s a year from the last service if you don’t make 10k miles. This is why it’s important to stay on schedule. So for you , I would say next august. Or 10k miles from your last service. How MB handles it, I don’t know.
I think you are correct next August, 2022. If that is the case, when you have low mileage, there is no reason to stay on schedule - for example doing services at 3,500 miles, one year.
BTW, I had the "A" service done at 7,586 miles in November of 2019, one year. Then Covid struck. In December 2020, two years I had only 10,000 miles on the car. It made no sense to me, having done the "A" service at 7,500 miles to do the "B" service for 2,500 miles - plus the dealer was in virtual shut down, I was sheltered in and vaccines were not yet available. That is why I waited until I had 20,000 miles on the car to do the "B" service this week.
We all understand that there were extenuating circumstances. I followed the 1 year timetable. We did a lot of just driving around during the worst of it. I have a convertible. So that helped. Then we would take my wife’s car out. Just to keep the battery up.
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