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No more new diesels, what should we do? (currently lease a 2016 GL350)

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No more new diesels, what should we do? (currently lease a 2016 GL350)

 
Old 02-03-2019, 01:26 PM
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2014 E350 4Matic; 2016 GL350 Bluetec; 2005 F430 Spider
No more new diesels, what should we do? (currently lease a 2016 GL350)

Our black on black, 2016 GL350 Bluetec lease is up on 8/31/2019. My wife does not want a gas SUV as she hates getting fuel and the diesels are so much more efficient for our driving style (over 600 miles per tank). We got the car brand new and have a 45,000 mile lease. We currently have 36,700 miles on it. Car is very reliable and we really like it. I guess we should have bought it to begin with instead of leasing it. The MB Financial buy out number is like $44,900 with the fees plus sales tax.

Should we buy the car and buy a factory extended warranty for it at the end?

Should we let dealer buy it for us and certify it, then add 2 years extra? (dealer claims they may be able to buy it cheaper than contract number but will not know until 8/1/2019)

Should we buy a 2016 Certified Pre-Owned one and add extra warranty?

What worries us is these have air suspension and Mercedes factory warranties exclude suspension. Should this worry us? Is the air suspension reliable? Is a total failure worst case scenario big money such that we should just consider a 2019 Land Rover Discovery diesel lease instead? We don't want big repair bills or big risks. Thanks for your thoughts.
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Old 02-03-2019, 02:36 PM
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The GLS 450 is capable of getting as good or, at least, very close to the mileage as the diesel 350 without all the diesel headaches and more expensive fuel. Your diesel is about to need a whole bunch of money thrown at it so make sure you have a warranty if you keep. Your adblue tank will need to be replaced as will your oil cooler seals. The timing chain will start making noise and you may need to replace the chain, gears, and tensioners. After that, your turbo seals will go bad and you will need to rebuild or replace. The air struts will start leaking soon but that's for all GL's. Catch it quickly so it doesn't ruin the air pump.

Last edited by BlownV8; 02-03-2019 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 02-03-2019, 04:02 PM
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2010 Mercedes GL450; 2000 Mercedes ML55 AMG; 2016 VW GLI SEL Stick!!!
Originally Posted by BlownV8 View Post
The GLS 450 is capable of getting as good or, at least, very close to the mileage as the diesel 350 without all the diesel headaches and more expensive fuel. Your diesel is about to need a whole bunch of money thrown at it so make sure you have a warranty if you keep. Your adblue tank will need to be replaced as will your oil cooler seals. The timing chain will start making noise and you may need to replace the chain, gears, and tensioners. After that, your turbo seals will go bad and you will need to rebuild or replace. The air struts will start leaking soon but that's for all GL's. Catch it quickly so it doesn't ruin the air pump.

if you must have a diesel get the land rover diesel.

If you must have a Mercedes diesel. Get yours cpo elw or extend the factory warranty mb elw as long as you can and be prepared for extended trips to the Mercedes service lane.

Get acquainted withr your service advisor.

The air air suspension will become the least of your worries.
Adblue heater failures.
Dpf failires
adblue tank failires.l cracking and crystallization
oil cooler failures
timjng chain stretch.
Timing chainguides failures. And tensioner.
sludge.

And if if you plan on keeping it. 5k miles oil changes. Especially if it is a grocery and city runner. The diesel hates trips under 15 mi.
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:09 PM
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Your dealer is giving you straight forward information - going into the end of your lease - yes, the dealer should be able to confirm that the dealer can buy your MB from MB Financial - service - sell back to you Mercedes Certified for same-or-lower price than your residual with Mercedes Financial.

If you are happy with your MB - and with that dealer service/Mercedes Certified will give you confidence - and you have the option to add up to a additional 2yrs CPO warranty at extra cost on top of the free 1yr included with the CPO.

Sure you can compare this scenario to a new Land Rover lease - or since this will be August - you can move forward to another new MB as early as May (with Mercedes pull ahead taking care of your last 3 payments) - or choose to move forward to a new 2020 - that will be available around that same time.

Don't "worry" about suspension - the Gen 2 GL's have been much more improved on that as compared to Gen 1 up thru 2011.
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:39 AM
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There's a lot of doom and gloom here. I have a 2014 GL350 with ~95k miles, knock on wood just brakes and tires and no majors.
I also had a 2007 450 prior I know what you mean about fuel economy that avg 15.8mpg
Ive only had 166 450 loaners but they feel much different less powerful and def not as fuel efficient not as relaxed and quiet cruising either.
My plan is wheels fall off unless there's some critical failure, I have four kids that can turn the floor mats orange with gold fish in about 30 min...
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:37 AM
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I agree with the doom and gloom statement, the forum attracts most of the negatives with these vehicles. Mine is over 60,000 with an ELW to 75,000 miles. Urea Tank, Rear Brakes, and New Tires only issues.
I am very happy with the ride and build quality.
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:51 PM
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I sold my R350cdi at 190k miles, zero engine issue, just had to change the airmatic at 90k (2.600€). As a GP i only do lots of very short distances.

My GL350 Bluetec has 50k miles, I am not too worried, here in EU 95% of MB SUVs are diesel, nobody would want something else.

There might be an issue with US diesel and/or climate that I am not aware of though...

JN
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Old 02-04-2019, 05:09 PM
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Ah, I forgot : on top of doing very short distances, I only change oil when requested, every 20k.

If the forum info was correct, my bluetec should have melted at 30k.

I don’t want to generalise, but it seems like most of the forum contributors refer to some article posted by a mysterious ex-MB mechanic, rather than own expérience. Am I correct ?
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jno211 View Post
Ah, I forgot : on top of doing very short distances, I only change oil when requested, every 20k.

If the forum info was correct, my bluetec should have melted at 30k.

I don’t want to generalise, but it seems like most of the forum contributors refer to some article posted by a mysterious ex-MB mechanic, rather than own expérience. Am I correct ?
Go to the 164 GL section and read about the experiences from the US diesel owners. It's rough. Many of the ones the once preached the diesels virtues are no longer after many years of ownership. Same engine as the 164 350's so the results will be the same. If you have owned reliable diesels, you are in the minority. The dealership where I take my MB almost doubled the shop space just to repair the diesel MB's and Sprinters. The diesel is a real boon to the dealerships.
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Old 02-05-2019, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by BlownV8 View Post
The GLS 450 is capable of getting as good or, at least, very close to the mileage as the diesel 350 without all the diesel headaches and more expensive fuel. Your diesel is about to need a whole bunch of money thrown at it so make sure you have a warranty if you keep. Your adblue tank will need to be replaced as will your oil cooler seals. The timing chain will start making noise and you may need to replace the chain, gears, and tensioners. After that, your turbo seals will go bad and you will need to rebuild or replace. The air struts will start leaking soon but that's for all GL's. Catch it quickly so it doesn't ruin the air pump.
I thought Mercedes diesels can run forever with maintenance. You really got me scared to not buy this car which has been great so far. Is this particular engine junk? Seems like ours runs great and we just do the factory service schedule.
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Old 02-05-2019, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kombifan View Post



if you must have a diesel get the land rover diesel.

If you must have a Mercedes diesel. Get yours cpo elw or extend the factory warranty mb elw as long as you can and be prepared for extended trips to the Mercedes service lane.

Get acquainted withr your service advisor.

The air air suspension will become the least of your worries.
Adblue heater failures.
Dpf failires
adblue tank failires.l cracking and crystallization
oil cooler failures
timjng chain stretch.
Timing chainguides failures. And tensioner.
sludge.

And if if you plan on keeping it. 5k miles oil changes. Especially if it is a grocery and city runner. The diesel hates trips under 15 mi.
what is the issues with the ad blue system? Seems like it may become a hassle. My wife doesn’t want a car that is hassle and constantly breaking down even if covered by warranty. Is this engine really that bad? We’ve had it 2.5 years with 36k miles and engine is perfect.
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Old 02-05-2019, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kombifan View Post



if you must have a diesel get the land rover diesel.

If you must have a Mercedes diesel. Get yours cpo elw or extend the factory warranty mb elw as long as you can and be prepared for extended trips to the Mercedes service lane.

Get acquainted withr your service advisor.

The air air suspension will become the least of your worries.
Adblue heater failures.
Dpf failires
adblue tank failires.l cracking and crystallization
oil cooler failures
timjng chain stretch.
Timing chainguides failures. And tensioner.
sludge.

And if if you plan on keeping it. 5k miles oil changes. Especially if it is a grocery and city runner. The diesel hates trips under 15 mi.
why is it that the engine hates trips under 15 miles? all these issues at what mileages should they Ben expected? You make this thing seems like a piece of junk.
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Old 02-06-2019, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MVDESQ View Post
what is the issues with the ad blue system? Seems like it may become a hassle. My wife doesn’t want a car that is hassle and constantly breaking down even if covered by warranty. Is this engine really that bad? We’ve had it 2.5 years with 36k miles and engine is perfect.
The adbkue system has multiple known issues.
First in cold weather and if the tank is not completely full, it is prone to cracking.
Then if it is not drained and flushed every once in a while it will crystallise.
Then if you eventually just keep driving normally, the adbkue heater will fail. And if you ignore it, the car will eventually do a countdown timer of starts left.

Most first owners never have an issue with as as they usually get rid of the car before 50k miles. It is around 40k and after that a lot of issues come to light.
And it's not hhe owners fault, a lot of it is mercedes not informing owners how to maintain the cars properly.

This car hates short trips. To get the emissions system running, the car superheats the engine to get everything up to spec, dumping extra diesel in preparation. It superheats the turbo, (plus the turbo is oil cooled) and everything around it rapidly. Everything from seals, to engine mounts fail from the heat.
Hydraulic heat sinkaterial engine mounts melt from the heat, the seals that often are mentioned do not hold the temperature. Etc etc. Extreme heat, as one can imagine, is horrible for the oil too. Leading inevitably to other issues with the oil (sludge) etc.

But that isn't the only issue. Often fuel, due to the leaking seals, will find its way into the oil. The first sign of this is often a warning saying the oil has been over filled and owners frantically going to the dealer asking them to take some out. What the dealer won't tell you after they've taken out some oil to appease you is that the cause for the high oil level is that diesel has made its way into the oil and effectively ruined the lubrication properties of the oil.

Also, when one drives short trips this compounds a lot of the issues. The engine works super hard to prep everything to emissions ready, preparing itself at some point to perform a dpf regeneration (burning off all the collected soot in the diesel particulate filter). Short trips at low speeds inhibits the car from performing this, yet the car will constantly try to put itself in ready mode to perform it.
What causes the car to finally perform a dpf regen? Driving at highway speeds for more than 15 mjnutws is the shared trick. Driving around town at low speeds for quick runs just doesn't cause it to regen.
So what you end up having is a dpf filter that is chocked full of soot...so full of soot that a proper burn is not even attainable anymore leading to replacement.
But....a .replacement is easier said than done. Some owners have been waiting a long time for a dpf filter. But the om642 engine is pretty popular, so waiting as long as some members with the 250 diesel om651 engine will probably not happen.

There are a lot of issues. I could go on even more. But the best thing to do is read the post by a former merc mechanic called Stephens service.
http://www.stephensservice.com/blog/

It is lengthy, but well worth the read. It wil detail most of the issues and only then can you decide if the long term issues are worth the pleasure of the car.

That being said, I do adore diesels. I have torn around the nurburgring in some pretty awesome diesels. Once in a bmw 435d and a bunch of times in a m550d wagon (my unicorn). 380hp and a butt load of torque is awesome. Getting great mileage whilst doing it is awe-inspiring.

If you do decide to keep your diesel, take all advice given with a grain of salt. Some owners will be bitter with the frustration their diesel have given them. Some owners will defend their diesel to the very end. Other 's are just trying to provide a voice of reason.
But do get an extended warranty, preferably the mb elw or the mb cpo elw. It will save you from much pain. The constant issues will be easier to bare from a glc loaner, or an e300 if you're lucky.

Whichever way you choose. Whether you switch to a gas model, buy a new diesel from another brand or stick it out with the missus
Wishing you the best of luck!

P.s. Us owners of mb diesels are really sol because these issues don't really happen on eu models.
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:23 PM
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Are ppl with the ad blue issues keeping the car parked outside or in a garage?

I had a 07 GL450 and it had a catastrophic engine failure that was so widespread there was a class action lawsuit bc of it. This is why I ended up in my 14 G350 I would have otherwise not bothered to make the upgrade as my kids basically use the car as a crumb dispenser.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:39 PM
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uuggghhh....yeah. You dont want that diesel..!

On the flip side you dont want to sell it do you!! I have been watching the same couple of forum members complain about diesels and they own gassers. Granted some GL350 owners have had some issues (me included), but getting high 20s mpg and lots of low end grunt has me a really happy customer.

We will see how long the new twin turbo (hotter than a $10 pistol) V6 will last, especially starting and stopping in city traffic.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by KrustyKustom View Post
uuggghhh....yeah. You dont want that diesel..!

On the flip side you dont want to sell it do you!! I have been watching the same couple of forum members complain about diesels and they own gassers. Granted some GL350 owners have had some issues (me included), but getting high 20s mpg and lots of low end grunt has me a really happy customer.

We will see how long the new twin turbo (hotter than a $10 pistol) V6 will last, especially starting and stopping in city traffic.
Mine has always been parked in a garage and rarely is left for any long periods of time outdoors. Although we went to Great Wolf Lodge last weekend and when I went to fire it up it sat there churning long enough for me to start saying "come on mama you can do it!"
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Old 02-10-2019, 09:47 PM
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If you don't need the roominess and 3rd row.........find a leftover 2018 X5 diesel. Fabulous vehicle!
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Old 02-10-2019, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jno211 View Post
Ah, I forgot : on top of doing very short distances, I only change oil when requested, every 20k.

If the forum info was correct, my bluetec should have melted at 30k.

I don’t want to generalise, but it seems like most of the forum contributors refer to some article posted by a mysterious ex-MB mechanic, rather than own expérience. Am I correct ?
you are incorrect.

In our extended family, there are 4-5 om642 engines in Europe, the most recent being a 2016 s350 l, the oldest being a 2010 e350

None of these have ever seen issues comparable to the us om642 engines. A reason why I, and the rest my siblings and parents here avoid the bluetec engine here in the US.

An uncle just sold a 2011 s350 with 227k km and it had no major issues, only regular 20k km oil changes.

The e350 is at 300k i think.

The issues seen in the us are not replicated elsewhere, as I've mentioned before on many other threads. Thus its not helpful to contribute information saying your diesel runs perfect; when in fact the diesels in the US market were crippled from the start.
It gives a misleading picture when others are trying to give a clearer picture to the og op to make an informed decision.

Thanks and that's my rant.

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Old 02-11-2019, 04:38 AM
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In regards to the Adblue tank failures, we bought our 2013 used in automn 2017 with 20k km on the clock. Truck had been owned by a l'il ole lady and the truck was never garage-parked. We purchased it and we garage-park all our vehicles. Tank took a dump on us at around 25-30k km, while still under warranty.
5-10k km later, the EGR crapped out as well. The writing was on the wall right there.

My take on the issues below;

Adblue heater failures. Poor design
Dpf failures Short trips not allowing regen
Adblue tank failures.l cracking and crystallization Again, poor design
oil cooler failures Badly placed, mitigated by allowing for cooler under-hood temps
Timing chain stretch Due to low zinc/phosphor levels in *****ty EPA-mandated 229.51/52 oil
Timing chain-guide failures. And tensioner See directly above
Sludge Crappy oil, short trips, ridiclously long oil change intervals


I've deleted our DEF/DPF & EGR systems. Running better oil and making frequent oil changes along with installing a high-cap oil filter. As well, I lose the belly pan & engine cover in summer.
Only time will tell if it's all been for naught. If it has been for nothing, I'll be eating crow for quite some time...

Last edited by peter2772000; 02-11-2019 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:46 PM
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We had a '13 GL350 diesel, and now have a "16 GL450 gasser. Hardly a difference in reality.
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Old 02-13-2019, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by MVDESQ View Post
Our black on black, 2016 GL350 Bluetec lease is up on 8/31/2019. My wife does not want a gas SUV as she hates getting fuel and the diesels are so much more efficient for our driving style (over 600 miles per tank). We got the car brand new and have a 45,000 mile lease. We currently have 36,700 miles on it. Car is very reliable and we really like it. I guess we should have bought it to begin with instead of leasing it. The MB Financial buy out number is like $44,900 with the fees plus sales tax.

Should we buy the car and buy a factory extended warranty for it at the end?

Should we let dealer buy it for us and certify it, then add 2 years extra? (dealer claims they may be able to buy it cheaper than contract number but will not know until 8/1/2019)

Should we buy a 2016 Certified Pre-Owned one and add extra warranty?

What worries us is these have air suspension and Mercedes factory warranties exclude suspension. Should this worry us? Is the air suspension reliable? Is a total failure worst case scenario big money such that we should just consider a 2019 Land Rover Discovery diesel lease instead? We don't want big repair bills or big risks. Thanks for your thoughts.
I was in a similar position a few years ago. Lease was up on our '12 ML 350 BlueTec, the new GLE diesel was a 4cyl that we didn't like, and the GL/GLS wasn't quite in the cards yet (not to mention it was about the time of the VW mess). We went w/ the GLE350 w/ the N/A gas V6 and regretted it. We now have the turbo V6 GLS450 and the wife is happy again, but we still miss the diesel. The LR D5 diesel is an option and is roomier than it looks. Staying in warranty is key w/ any LR. For a short time had an '06 D3 and got rid after it when the suspension compressor needed to be replaced a 2nd time. Air suspension on the MB is more trustworthy than on the LR but at some point it will go, just be prepared.

Originally Posted by M1M2M3 View Post
My plan is wheels fall off unless there's some critical failure, I have four kids that can turn the floor mats orange with gold fish in about 30 min...
My 2y/o just did that to me the other day. I hear "daddy I'm done" and as I turn around, she's holding the bag upside down. All the crumbs from the bottom of the bag on the floor.

Originally Posted by MVDESQ View Post
I thought Mercedes diesels can run forever with maintenance. You really got me scared to not buy this car which has been great so far. Is this particular engine junk? Seems like ours runs great and we just do the factory service schedule.
The diesel engine itself is not the issue. In the US, because of the emissions requirements, there's a load of extras that go with the diesel models and that's where the issues lie. We had the adblue tank heater go on our ML early on. As mentioned earlier, you need a long highway drives frequently. For short around town driving, you're better off w/ a hybrid.

Last edited by skw; 02-13-2019 at 02:46 AM.
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by peter2772000 View Post
...My take on the issues below;

Adblue heater failures. Poor design
Dpf failures Short trips not allowing regen
Adblue tank failures.l cracking and crystallization Again, poor design
oil cooler failures Badly placed, mitigated by allowing for cooler under-hood temps
Timing chain stretch Due to low zinc/phosphor levels in *****ty EPA-mandated 229.51/52 oil
Timing chain-guide failures. And tensioner See directly above
Sludge Crappy oil, short trips, ridiclously long oil change intervals


I've deleted our DEF/DPF & EGR systems. Running better oil and making frequent oil changes along with installing a high-cap oil filter. As well, I lose the belly pan & engine cover in summer.
Only time will tell if it's all been for naught. If it has been for nothing, I'll be eating crow for quite some time...
I've actually learned a lot about my 2014 GL350 just from reading this one thread, but there sure is a lot of doom here, wow! I'm also on the fence about keeping it or not after our warranty runs out, especially after reading all this.
Can you program all the rest of the fast heat-up and whatnot out of these computers, (I know it's not compliant) so who does that and what do you consider 'better oil'??
I'd absolutely do the DEF delete if we end up keeping ours, which will probably depend on how many of these common repairs are completed before our 3 year extended warranty runs out. (I don't know about the DPF & EGR delete and need to read up on that now.)

Bought ours 2 years ago CPO with 50,000 miles on it and the dealer had just done brakes and tires. This past fall I put snow tires on the stock wheels & any day now I'll install my new summer tire/wheel combo, so I should be good there.
My dealer did the engine upgrades during the last (2 years free CPO) service and the nice thing was a brand new 2019 GLS loaner as long as I'm within my extended warranty. Which that is brilliant marketing on their part because after driving that GLS we absolutely want one!
Here's my thing; between multiple kids and always towing something somewhere I thought I needed a 7 passenger diesel SUV, when the reality is compared to my Diesel Excursion this thing is like a car and I end up doing a lot my towing with our F-250 diesel anyway. Not only that but my average MPG is only 17'ish and the new 2019 was better on gas - which usually costs about $0.50 less a gallon.

Chad
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:33 PM
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From personal experience, DEF/DPF/EGR/ULSD is a failed system for North American passenger vehicles. I had a dieselgate VW Touareg. Nearly all of the failures reported on Mercedes Bluetec vehicles occur on VW/Audi diesels of the same model years. It just doesn't work for reasons posted on this site and countless others.

The fuel economy is dynamite. The repair costs are like dynamite to your wallet. I wouldn't buy a post 2010 passenger vehicle diesel in North America.

I don't have experience with Mercedes air suspensions, but would not touch one from any carmaker. Too many independent, corroborating posts on this site. I have more than 30 years of vehicle ownership experience, and have worked in the auto industry at a carmaker and a supplier. Air suspensions are great when new, not so much at high mileage.
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Old 05-13-2019, 09:30 PM
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I believe some things were redesigned for 2015 in regards to the issues others have mentioned here. As a 2016 model, I believe it has an updated oil cooler and seals. This is what I am recalling from searching a year ago when looking at buying a gl350. Ended up going with a 2015 to avoid some of the headaches. We are changing the oil every 5-7k miles and have put 30k miles on it over the past year with no issues whatsoever. Other than the awful tires on the car that need to be replaced with something other than the scorpion verde. Also bought like 10 gallons of ad blue to keep aside to fill up. Avoid filling ad blue at the dealer as they charge an arm and a leg.

This is the same engine as in the sprinter van and those are being used as service trucks all over with hundreds of thousands of miles on them so its not all doom and gloom. There are just a higher ratio of people who have had a bad experience than a good one on the forum as naturally you will go to a forum for advice and not usually to express your contentment.
NewCents05 is offline  
Old 05-13-2019, 10:55 PM
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ML 350
I believe the huge disparity in reliability of US MB diesels of recent years compared to the rest of the world has to do with FUEL. Some time ago I read that in the US, 20% biodiesel is common where in many other countries (including here in Canada) usually only sell up to 5% biodiesel. I understand that the MB emissions systems have a big problem with the extra emulsifiers that are required in the 20% mixture, consequently US vehicles have ongoing problems.

I am fortunate, we have a 14 ML 350 Bluetec with about 95,000 miles on it. The majority of the travelling we do is highway miles, say 90% hyway and 10% around town. Since we purchased the car new I have had two Service Now lights which required an engine particulate filter replacement. - that’s it!

Like the US we in Canada can no longer purchase European diesels (many domestic allowed!!) so we are awaiting the GLE production delays to be be addressed and the GLE 580 to be introduced. With all the bad press, I hope our diesel makes it that long.

Another option for the poster for CT is to move to Canada! Oh but then he would have to pay Carbon Tax.

I am sure some more technologically knowledgeable individuals will provide more depth on this issue.
MargarittaMB is offline  

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Quick Reply: No more new diesels, what should we do? (currently lease a 2016 GL350)


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