cupecoy

So it looks like MB is hard at work on a fully electric model at the GLE level, dubbed EQE SUV.
I don't know if it's the angle or something but on the photos is looks similarly sized to the EQC which is surprising.
No word yet on pricing, and sales are expected in 2022 but with the delays nowadays we can probably expect 2023.
Curious also to see what their charging options will be, atm Tesla really has the crown on that here in the US.
I am considering the Tesla Model X but can't get past the dated exterior and subpar interior so really really hoping the EQE makes a debut soon.

mikapen

Mercedes announced that they are abandoning their Autonomous Vehicles and concentrating on EV's.
We'll see what the lawsuit from M-B, BMW and VW against Tesla brings, for buying their battery supplier, violating their supply agreement and stealing their technology. Also violated the purchase agreement with the supplier and fired the CEO!
VW will probably overtake Tesla pretty soon in charging stations, and in vehicle production in three years.
All of the above have better build quality, so I expect consumers to move easily to the German automakers, from Tesla.
And as those producers gain market share, Tesla's only source of profit - subsidies paid by ICE manufacturers - will dry up, too. Rocky road ahead for Tesla, and a rosy one for competitors. Throw Ford and GM in there, since they will probably be the biggest EV players.

Was Ferrari Guy

We are taking our first road trip with our new 53. It is 525 miles each way. I just can't get my arms around having to recharge on the way and having to wait maybe hours to get to the charger and then charging. I can only see for myself an EV for a car that is only used in town. It's a tough transition for a Petrohead!!

cupecoy

So we did a shorter trip (300 miles each way) with the Y just to see how it goes. It cost us 1 extra hr overall in travel time.
Stopped for charging twice, 30 mins each, on a 250 Supercharger. Watched two episodes of Love, Death & Robots on Netflix each time.
It was not an issue and frankly felt good to stretch a bit on a drive that I would normally one-off. On that note, MB has exceptionally comfortable seats, unlike the Model Y.

Ron.s

My feeling exactly. There will be bottlenecks at charging locations that will only get worse as more EV’s hit the road. I travel a lot and it’s not unusual to pull into a truck stop with 20-30 pumps and little or no openings. My local Costco always has a line 6-8 deep. I can’t even imagine how a C store or truck stop will accommodate charging even if they cut the time down. Maybe they will need 50 acres with a shuttle🙄

Futbol

Totally agree with this. In my opinion the EV idea was a make me feel good for environmentalists and the government went along with huge subsidies for the manufacturer such as Tesla (the single biggest welfare recipient in the country which has made Musk a billionairexxxxx).

The sustainability of achieving a majority of vehicles on the road being EV is not possible with current grid size and structure. There is not enough power to go around. In CA they are already asking to charge at low periods of usage. Problem is that is at night when everyone charges their cars - guess what happens when everyone is charging millions of cars at night?! In CA we are constantly suffering from rolling blackouts. How does this work when you need your charge to get to work or to the doctor appointment? This worked when Tesla had few cars on the road and they gave you free charges and the stations appeared to be mostly empty. Now they are "charging" for the "charge". Electricity prices are ever going up in all of the country. Also notice the long lines, and fights, at charging stations many of which have non-working units accentuating the long waits and short tempers. So drive in the middle of summer from CA to Dallas with loaded car and full AC going - how many hours of charging and waiting will you have to spend? By the way what do we use for the most part to produce electricity? Duh!

By the way, for those that want to feel good about driving an EV for the environment - have you researched the toxic by-products of building the batteries? And where will all those batteries end up at the end of their life cycle? A dump near your house?

Nice idea but not workable to replace ICE. Still the most efficient and clean overall.

Ron.s

Futbol, I was just trying to find a recent article named “Unobtanium” that makes your exact points. The author had the credentials and facts to back up his story. He has probably been banned from Social Media…my Google search can’t find it no matter how I word it.
There is also the residential infrastructure issue. There are many older homes with 100Amp service. The power company can upgrade their capacity at our expense and higher cost but… The people that can least afford it might be priced out of ownership. In Metro areas there will be other transportation options not available in many rural communities. Nothing the Govt can’t fix with our money🤑
Unfortunately, it looks like we are nearing a point of no return. If the Media and/or Government would lay out the true costs & the facts things might be different. Few of us would make personal decisions in this manner but for some reason it’s OK since it’s the Government.

makris0000

My thoughts exactly. My usual commute is very short but sometimes I need to travel throughout Florida for work which would make it very inconvenient. If I can cut out the long work trips then I would consider getting an electric SUV after my GLE lease is up.

I honestly think the EQS and the EQC (whatever that one electric crossover is called that was released in the US temporarily) are ugly AF. Tesla designs are getting old and outdated but they still look good when they do minor cosmetic refreshes, like they did for 2021 (minus the "Yoke" steering wheel). I think the new model X is still good looking for an electric SUV. I have a feeling the EQE is going to be styled similarly to the EQS and the other one but hopefully they refine the design so it does not look like a potato.

Futbol

Teslas are built as cheaply as possible. The "metal" on these is as thin as Reynolds aluminum used in the kitchen. The interiors are boring and unsophisticated other than for a the large iPad that lights up the world. Seats are awful. These cars are nothing more than fancy golf carts. If it wasn't for the government giving Musk $7500 per car this company would have not survived. I would like to know what MB, Porsche, BMW, Audi would do with such a subsidy! EV is not the answer, maybe hybrids is a compromise (torque and some electrical use in town). The answer has to be elsewhere if anyone thinks that ICE are obsolete. Maybe hydrogen or natural gas. Not an engineer but it does not take a scientist to figure out that we cannot switch from ICE to EV in the short or long run --- not enough grid and enough power generation unless we want to give up our home ACs, lights, and other creature comforts. There was a recent article from British scientists that calculated what it would take to get rid of fossil fuel by 2050. They calculated that we would have to bring on line 1Giga-watt per day on line EVERY day until that date. How many of these have you seen in your community going up in the past week? Better hope that EV have a new option --- a large sail! Smile

mikapen

The current, most hopeful estimates are that the US still be supplying 50% of its energy needs with petroleum products by 2045. Most say 2050 and many say 2100. Read that again.

Last I looked, renewables contributed 11% of total energy use in the US. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=42655 Whoopee.
Expecting EV's to make a huge, sudden impact on energy usage is foolish.

Some say that if ICE's get to 50% efficiency, they will be cleaner than EV's. That's one of the reasons that M-B's AMG53 is so important - it's in the mid 40's I saw somewhere, but I'll be darned if I can find that reference.
The Mercedes F1 engine is right at 49+%, and it's a model for the AMG53 engine.

Regarding the subsidy that the Feds send to Tesla, making them profitable - you and I are paying that subsidy through the fines that are paid by MB and all ICE engine producers. Which of course derails their Capital Expenditures that could otherwise be spent achieving that 50% goal.

Don't get me started on the UN's IPCC. I have done extensive analysis of IPCC 1, 2, 3 and 5, and their "studies" basically all refer to a set of Op Eds from the 90's. Not Science. My first analysis (1995) took 8 months, and I joined/ subscribed to several Professional Organizations / Journals to do a thorough job.
CO2 is an insignificant Greenhouse Gas. Water Vapor (H2O) is the number one, and as temperatures rise, there is more evaporation, causing more water vapor, which causes more warming. We see this when clouds hold in daytime heat, and when it's cloudy it doesn't cool down overnight.
So Global Warming is real, but the culprit is far from what the UN and the Paris Accord want us to believe.
IMO it's too many people doing the things that people do - respiring, cooking, heating, flying and laying blacktop where greenery once was.
EV's won't begin to address that phenomenon.

petee1997

Guys face facts, EV is the future. Charging stations will increase with the volume. In the next few years charging will take no longer than fuelling your car today. This is the easiest thing we can do to combat climate change. The money being spent will revolutionize today’s EV. Ford and GM alone will spend 64B between them by 2025. All automobile manufacturers are doing the same thing. Countries are legislating the end of gas automobiles. Canada for example is legislating thé end of sales of the combustion engine for cars and light trucks by 2035. That’s 14 years. Thé US may not legislate but car manufacturers will stop producing the over a century old combustion engine as a propulsion system.
i agree that EV’s today are more practical as a commuter car with charging at home. Thé évolution will start as one EV and one gas propulsion car. It will evolve from there to all cars.

Futbol

Mikapen, I could agree with you any more! +10. The only disagreement is about global warming. If that is real, it is passive and will change. Not long ago (late last century) we were predicting an ice age. What happened? I think that we should do what we can to minimize waste, toxic gases and pollution of any type. But to think that the US and maybe Europe will lead to any significant change in temperature, while China, India and most Asia puts out more crap than the rest of the world, is a complete and total fallacy promulgated by those that want to run our lives - starting with the current Adm, EU (what is left of it) and those that will likely not be affected by the policies that are being proposed.

Petee1997 - completely not agree with you. In CA we are already experiencing rolling blackouts and asking that we temper our charging habits. I do not see a single power plant being built to add capacity. And there won't be because of the Greens. How is all this E power going to be generated? Wind? Solar? Please!!!

Ron.s

I read recently that 20% of EV buyers have gone back to ICE engines.
We have a huge amount of momentum going Electric. The only way I see this stopping is when the uninformed youth & adults that get their info from Social Media have to start paying the price in time & money. Even in podunk Idaho the Power Company is asking everyone to cut power usage from 4-9PM. How many are going to turn off AC & eat cold food for supper?
Petee makes a good point though because when Government mandates something that “feels good” the masses will follow. By the time they wake up it may be too late. And the poor that the Libs say they are helping will be the ones suffering the most, IMO.

mercedesmax

Why is everyone banking on some miracle technology that will drastically reduce battery charging times? There are real reasons why batteries take the time to chare that they do. It could be decades before there is a scientific breakthrough that will change this.
Also, no one mentions where this extra electricity is going to come from?
Are we building new power plants? All that is really happening is that we are removing the pollution for the automobile and putting on the power plant. Unless you live somewhere with nuclear, hydroelectric or reliable solar you are burning fossil fuel for electricity.
This is my prediction, gas powered cars are going to be around a lot longer than people think. Every car maker that is trumpeting about no longer building ICE cars will continue to build and sell them past their arbitrary end dates.

TexAg91

Give me a PHEV GLE with at least 50 miles of pure EV range...and I'll be happy. My fuel consumption would be reduced more that 70% with no loss in convenience. In fact it would be an improvement, as I could recharge at home at night, and would spend less time at Costco waiting to refuel.

A typical gas station has 12 pumps and each pump can refuel 6 vehicles/hr; for 72 vehicles refueled an hour. To recharge a 300 mile range EV with a 100 kWh battery in 30 minutes at 90% efficiency takes 222 kW of continuous power (200 kW/0.9) over those 30 minutes. Therefore, to recharge 72 EVs an hour, would require 36 charge points, and ~8 MW of continuous power. In 2012, Virginia had ~4000 gas stations. To be able to recharge the same number of EVs as ICE vehicles that could be refueled at those 4000 gas stations in a hour would require (8 MW x 4000) = 32,000 MW of continuous power....just in Virginia.

A typical nuclear reactor can generate up of 582 MW of continuous power. Virginia would have to build 55 nuclear reactors to generate the 32,000 MW of continuous power that would be required to replace those 4000 gas stations...if everyone drove an EV.

Ron.s

Tex…Bernie and AOC will be coming for you.😵‍💫
You have to wonder how come our investigative reporters & other news media don’t break a big story like that….There must be one or two that can add numbers.

user 7208224

I agree. I think a good balance for me would be a plug-in hybrid that had a 50-60 mile EV range. That would cover my typical daily needs and the ICE would be there for traveling.

cupecoy

VA nuclear powerplants currently generate 850-ish on average. Gas stations consume a lot of electric power to run pumps, lights, and other equipment and that is not accounted in your calculation. But that's besides the point.
You won't need the entire capacity at once because you will never have a situation where every single car will be charging at 222 kw at the same time.
In NYC for example, there are only five 250 kw chargers, pretty much every other charger is 75 kw or lower and they all only charge at full speed when your battery is low (below 50%). Average charging draw on superchargers is around 45 kw.
Here's a real-life example of how most people can manage with a household outlet:
My wife drives her Model Y about 50 miles roundtrip daily, and plugs the car into a regular wall outlet overnight. That's 1.3 kw draw for about 10 hrs each night. She uses no other charging, unless she goes on long (200 miles+) road trips.
So basically with a Model Y LR with its 320 mile range, as long as your daily roundtrips are up to 55-60 miles, you only need a household wall outlet overnight for 10 hrs and you are set (it recharges at 6 miles per hour, 10*6 = 60 miles overnight).
Bureau of Transportation Statistics says average roundtrip commute of 91% of workers commuting to work using personal vehicles is 40 miles.

user 7208224

I agree with everything that you are saying. I also believe that the majority of charging is, and will be, at home in the future. Sure, there is a need for an expanded charging network, but not nearly as robust as some are calling for. Additionally, there is presently a huge level of reserve capacity in the grid for off peak use at night, which is when the majority of charging will take place. This is actually good for the generation suppliers, unless they happen to be solar producers!

petee1997

i agree with the previous posters. Most households will have the optional $1,000.00 charger. A full charge with those chargers takes about 8 hours. The new MB EQS supposedly has a range of 400 miles. That is under ideal conditions with no reserve. So let’s say you can safely travel 300 miles before recharging. Most recharging will be done at home in off peak hours when electricity is cheaper and the grid has much surplus power. There will be a slight inconvenience when travelling long distances. Charging will take 30 min to recharge the car 10% to 80%. This will improve over time so will the range of the batteries.
i plan on purchasing one EV and keeping one ICE. I do not know if I have the longevity to see all EV’s. That said many of you will. You may also have solar panels on your roof. Walmart is installing solar panels on many of their stores now.
One thing for sure, we must change or suffer severe consequences in the future.

Futbol

Do you live in CA? We are a close to a third world country not the "seventh economy in the world" when it comes to electricity - expensive, unreliable and plagued by rolling blackouts at the most inopportune times. Do you want to rely on that kind of "service" when you have to charge your vehicles for the next day drive to work or your planned vacation? Don't know how many remember the 70's with the gas shortage, long lines, odd and even days for getting gas. This is what we will have permanently with a full transition to EV. Rules as to how much you can charge your EV, how long, when. That is what BIG GOVERNMENT and loony environmentalists want. They will not be affected because they will be the ruling class. Case in point, see the current gathering of world billionaires in Sun Valley to decide "our future". Bill Gates lecturing on global warming to all the billionaires flying in on their private jets! Get it?

As someone above stated, a PHEV with 50-100 mile range would be a reasonable offering. Even then there will NOT be enough energy available unless more plants are built and soon. You can continue to dream on about EV but the Kool-Aide will run out soon. Hopefully it will not be too late.

TexAg91

Believe it or not, I'm not against EVs. I am against blindly banning all ICE vehicles. If we do that, then my extreme scenario starts to become a reality -- 100% EVs are not a panacea. There is a demand for those 4000 gas stations in VA. If Everyone drove EVs and charged overnight, what would be the additional demand on the grid? What would be the supercharger grid demand along I-66, I-81, I-85 and I-95 during the day (peak demand)? Maybe not 36,000 MW, but it would definitely be more than it is today -- how much more? Lower the C rate, and you increase the charge times and the wait cues, and people get PO'd and start fighting at those supercharger stations.

Personally, I would like to own a Model Y type vehicle and a GLE 300de type PHEV for road trips. The only time I'd use gas is the couple of times a month I travel more the 300 miles a day. Yes, I would charge both at home overnight at a low C rate and take advantage of the grid excess generating capacity. I would not want to use a model Y type vehicle for trips over 300 miles, a PHEV would be much more convenient and not require sacrifices.

I also want to see secure, vehicle to grid tech -- why is no one talking about that? Are there any plans for national VTG interface standards? I lost power Wednesday night for about 6 hours. With VTG, if I had an EV with a 100 kWh battery or a PHEV with an ICE, I could have used either to power my home until the lights came back on.

TexAg91

You must read Dr Roy Spencer’s blog too.

mikapen

Don't know him by name. My research is my own.
I'm an Environmental Biologist / Vertebrate Ecologist by training. Worked with our State's Climatologist on drought and related issues.

I only use peer-reviewed sources, and I check the "Peer" credentials, which rules out the majority of those Peers. And the papers, including IPCC.
I'll check him out.
P.S. I AM familiar with his work. A leader in Southern Hemisphere work and monitoring buoys, which were deployed by NASA and are confounding the Sky Is Falling models - finally.
Dr. Spencer seems to have his sources in order. Thanks for the direct reference.
And he seems to include "Heat Islands," which have driven the Media and IPCC false narratives.
A Heat Island is caused by having all our temperature measurements in the Northern Hemisphere, located at an airport or other Blacktop, high energy consumption places, that are not representative of the Globe. Unfortunately these are the only places that have long history of monitoring. What would you expect of temperatures at an airport that had a 300' runway and five planes a day in 1920, that evolves to a thousand tarmac acres with 20,000 flights per month? Warmer, of course, and that's what we have relied on to claim "Climate Change." Is it a representative of the actual Globe" Not even close.

I'll just throw in another tidbit - much (all?) of the Polar Ice Cap melting is caused by newer ocean-bottom volcanic Vents, that are heating the water beneath the ice and melting them. Hardly an internal combustion engine effect.

mikapen

The thrust to alleviate the need to expand / improve the grid will likely REQUIRE you to stay plugged in, so the Grid can draw on your stored reserves.
Whether this causes an unexpected low SOC just when you experience an emergency, will be unpredictable.
Your car will be part of the Grid's storage - a Public Asset.

This is also an excuse for not providing more power generating sources.
Your Power is Our Power, unless you are completely off the grid. CA has it figured out (and the Peoples Republic of Boulder CO).
Then, the $1,000 charger becomes closer to $40,000 or more, since you'll also have to provide your own storage.
This may be affordable for 10% of the population, but the average household will be out of luck.

And just as other "Clean Energy" mandates have done in the past, this will Kill People. Many folks, elderly (disposable of course) and the Lower 20% will not be able to afford California's 16.8 cents per kWhr, will turn off their heat/ air conditioning and just die too. NYC has seen a big increase in winter deaths since the Clean Power Plan went into effect - they just don't see the correlation.
And the Political Class won't notice, because the "Whole Picture" for them is only their home and office.

Will we see EV's mandated? You bet. Will it solve anything? Probably not.

I wouldn't mind an EV, especially if I move to a town bigger than our 17,000 person population (which has had it's (actually clean) coal plant removed under the CPP and now we're paying more, with uncertain future electric providers, which now have us over the barrel). I plan on replacing my chain saw and lawn mower with battery units when I can - I won't have to store fuel or change oil.