So after getting rid of the GLE 450 and started driving less luxurious vehicles I think I managed to reflect the things I don't really need for the next vehicle to replace the 7 seater GLE.

1. Fancy interior.
2. Ambient lighting galore.
3. Premium gas.
4. Expensive maintenance.
5. The MB logo.

I really needed the following:

1. Engine with a HP and torque of min. +320hp/350lb of torque.
2. Can tow 5000lb.
3. Can seat 7 that has a adult friendly 3rd row.
4. No expensive maintenance.
5. Must be at least a full hybrid, not mild.
6. Still have heads-up display and some fancy infotainment.
7. Active/passive safety features like the MB distronic plus.
8. Will last a long time.

Going through what is available and what is coming to the market there are only 2 vehicles that will fit the bill:

TOYOTA GRAND HIGHLANDER with the MAX hybrid engine or the incoming LEXUS TX 500h.

The 3 things I will miss if I go Japanese:

1. Soft close doors.
2. The "THUD" sound of the doors.
3. The service department.

Most likely the family will go for that for hauling everyone with the toys then will get a EQE for the miss for her daily drive.

 

When you get your new hybrid, feed It premium gas to improve your fuel economy and longevity.

Try to get your Toyota without their new infotainment because I understand it's awful, at least according to consumer reports and JD Power, FWIW (not much).

 

I replaced mine with a Grand Highlander (short story here) and can agree with your assessment. What I found also is that the gap between european and japanese cars are closing in e.g. in 2014, Highlander and GLE was worlds apart in terms of overall quality of build and engineering. In 2023, they felt "similar" for the lack of better words. I think it's due to the european using less expensive material, more plastic, and the japanese going more premium. Carpet piles were thicker back in 2010 for my C-Class and the Camry had thin carpeting. My former 2021 GLE had a thin carpeting that is the same with my 2024 Grand Highlander. Also my Grand Highlander has tons of insulation underneath including the wheel wells.

Not if you go Lexus, the LX has soft close door and fancy service dept. I'm looking forward to the TX however it only seat 7 instead of 8 on the Grand Highlander.

 

Spot on, great post.

On recent travel I rented a Kia Soul - what a great transportation appliance. Same statement for a Chevy Spark. MB pain/gain ratio is so far into the pain regime it makes no sense. Pain in this case excludes acquisition cost. Cash in advance are my terms of engagement for any car purchase and is irrelevant to this discussion for me.

Today I asked myself what an MB offers that can’t be found in other cars, and I didn’t come up with anything. Features and materials are nearly universal in the industry. Styling (cosmetics/aesthetics) is the only distinguishing characteristic between brands.

To get good (imo) MB cosmetics you have to suffer the pain and agony of MB rubbish reliability and circus clown dealers. Not worth it. MB doesn’t even believe in their products with their normal stance on pushing back on legitimate warranty claims

 

I've got my eyes on the Land Cruiser to replace my GLE next year. Full time AWD, great fuel economy, real buttons and even an old school shifter. I'm not impressed with the estimated 0-60 time of 8.0 seconds, but I'll wait for a test drive to see for myself. I won't pay over MSRP though, so even if it has enough power it might not work out.

 

Quietness in the cabin are important to me. I want to hear my music and not the road. The grand Highlander is a nice truck. But you make want to consider the Sequoia as well. More room great quality good engine etc.

 

I am kinda split actually between the seating arrangement of the grand highlander and Lexus. I really want a 8 seater but I can only get that on a a regular hybrid higlander not the MAX platinum. Then if I go to Lexus I see they can have captain seats on the 2nd row but only 2 seats at the back or 3 seats at the mid then 2 seats at the back. I want them to give a full 8 seat on ANY trim.

You are right about the plastics and carpet. The line between the japanese and european are getting really close. I do see how the europeans are still ahead of the japanese on small details but again if you are not paying too much attention or a car geek you will never notice it. Another thing that will bug me is the exposed door frame on the inside. On the europeans these are covered with plastic. If I do get the higlander a trip to a vinyl wrap shop and get them wrap it with matt vinyl will do the trick.

How is the noise levels inside your highlander? I see from the reviews that it is quiet becuase of the noise cancellation speakers, acoustic glass as standard, and extra padding. Is it as quiet as the GLE without the acoustic package? If it is then the higlander is a winner. Imagine having a GLS space with more torque and sips regular fuel I do not see the point of spending +$100k unless you really want the fancy inside, the airmatic suspension and the badge.

 

You need to check out the Grand highlander. The space is HUGE. The 3rd row are of the Grand Highlander is the best of the Toyota/Lexus offerings and only the Sienna Van will beat it. The 0-60 below 6 seconds on a huge non-premium drinking engine is a total shocker. I have seen a youtuber floor that thing and it registered 5.8ish seconds for 0-60. That is very impressive for such a vehicle. The GLE 450 I believe does 5.3 sec but who cares about .7 sec difference if your gas consumption and available torque will put the GLE 450 to shame. I rarely floored the GLE450 and the 360lbs of torque was more than enough for me while climbing the mountains. I can't imagine what 400lbs of torque will do as that is like diesel torque numbers already.

 

Is there somewhere on the owner's manual of the Toyota that says premium fuel will give more boast? On the Hondas and Nissan they do say that. With regards to the infotainment it won't really matter as I will be using full Android auto every time I use the vehicle and it is WIRELESS.

 

5.8 sec? Was it downhill?

 

5.8 sec? Was it downhill? What YouTuber was this?

 

5.8 sec? Was it downhill? What YouTuber was this? The Lexus TX with rear wheel steering looks nice. Saw a preview video this morning.

 

The Grand Highlander is a compelling package for for people prioritizing people-hauling, but I have no interest in something quite that large. I don't need for a third row, and more important I still prefer the dynamics of a longitudinal drivetrain. Unless it's extremely heavy, I can't imagine the Land Cruiser will be as pokey as estimated. If it is too slow for my needs, the new Lexus GX is a possibility if Lexus offers a two-row version as rumored. But I prefer the Land Cruiser's tidier proportions, simpler interior and vastly superior fuel efficiency. The CX70 is another consideration, and I might be willing to kick the tires of the Grand Cherokee when Jeep finally offers it with the Hurricane inline six, but that's a stretch. The only European cars I'll consider are the Defender 110 or Q8. I'm done with BMW and Mercedes. It's not that I expected the Germans to be trouble-free, but I did expect problems to be diagnosed and corrected. Both brands fell short in that respect, and I'm fed up paying a massive premium for such a lousy driving experience. I buy cars for me, not to impress the neighbors, so the badges have no value whatsoever if the car drives like it's broken.

 

Great statement.

 

very interesting fuel economy test of the Grand Highlander MAX:

Way better than the GLE450 on eco mode.

Good videos to watch about the grand highlander:


I love kitchen appliance LOL!!!!

 

I regularly got 32mpg on our GLE450, highway. Usually @24 city.
+3 over a 10 day GLE350 loaner (1100 miles!) And +2 over our GLC 2.0.

It looks like we have a subforum of Toyota fans. Rah rah.

 

The Grand Highlander is a fine applicance. If all you're looking for is an appliance, no need to get a luxury car.

 

So I typically sort out noises based on their source e.g. tire noise vs. wind noise around the cabin vs. overall NVH.

Tire noise is easy to determine when the road surface changes, and that variable really depends on the particular car with its pressure etc. (note that my GLE had the PNCS tires albeit being 21"), and the Grand Highlander is running on Continental LX20 EcoPlus with a slightly taller sidewall since it's 255/55R20. The GLE's Pirelli All Season PNCS is way quieter.

Wind noise, the Grand Highlander wins. No whistling at the mirror or the roof bars at any speed, at all. Very impressive. Both has panoramic moonroof and I always leave the shade open for fairly accurate assessment.

Overall NVH, 1st row the Grand Highlander is much quieter since the engine sits a bit further out and transversely mounted, so the 4 cylinder "rumble" is less noticeable. Note that if you have the 450 this doesn't count since it's way smoother and obviously the GLE450 wins, but I'm comparing both 4 cylinders GLE350 vs Grand Highlander gas which is also 4 cylinder turbo. And maybe because of the acoustic window and windshield on the Grand Highlander too. 2nd row NVH is better on the GLE for some reason, maybe because the way the seats are designed to "sink you in" like a couch versus the Grand Highlander where you "sit on it" for the lack of better words and you're closer to the headliner and closer from the doors. 3rd row is where the Grand Highlander wins hands down. There's no exhaust note leaking into the cabin at all (the GLE has a lot of drone in the 3rd row). No weird vibration or bouncing around like in the GLE.

I started driving it spiritedly and it's nowhere near the GLE in terms of handling though, so there's that 😄

 

I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

I had 7 Lexuses and now have moved to Mercedes. I have no desire to go back to Lexus. I also own mainstream family vehicles, we have had 4 minivans, a Kia Sedona and 3 Chrysler Pacificas. We just replaced our 2020 Pacifica with a new 2023 Pacifica Hybrid. If my wife would have agreed to it, I would have replaced it with a GLS in a second. The latest Pacifica is a hybrid Pinnacle and its beautiful, drives great (hybrid drives much nicer than the gas one), but its not a Mercedes.

Fancy interiors are beautiful, so is ambient lighting. My S560 makes me smile every time I sit in it, I look forward to driving it every morning when I get up, and I'm 3 years in. I also enjoyed my Lexus vehicles, but I would have a hard time going back to that now that I have experienced this. Maintenance cost is not much cheaper at Lexus, trust me and that cost is mitigated by finding a good independent mechanic. Premium fuel? $80 more a month in fuel if you fill up once a week. Non issue. Fuel economy? Couldn't care less.

I looked at the Grand Highlander and the Pilot and the Atlas and the Telluride and Palisade and everything you are looking at, and while they are very nice...none of them is a Mercedes (or a BMW or an Audi etc), and none of them appeal to me on the same level as a GLE or GLS would. None of them have the same level of refinement. They are all transverse FWD vehicles on cheap macpherson strut suspensions that don't deliver anywhere near the driving finesse of the german SUVs. Grand Highlander and Pilot are full of crappy cheap plastic inside...

If a luxury car doesn't appeal to you, then for sure don't spend the money on one...but none of those vehicles is a replacement for a vehicle of this caliber to somebody who does appreciate and value what something like a GLE or GLS brings to the table.

 

Well put, IMO. I wonder if some people vacillate between viewing a car as an appliance, lower cost, etc. vs a true Luxury vehicle with much better driving dynamics. Some of that difference blurs with a lower model German entry level vehicle.
We have owned a Lexus RX 350 and at the time my wife loved it…until getting her Audi. Now she wouldn’t go back. We’ve shopped the RX and NX recently. I’m helping a family member shop for a mid level SUV and noticed how many of them lack features and are in no way close in overall quality or Driving Dynamics. I can also see how some people won’t notice. As they say. “to each his own”, we all have different tastes and priorities.

 

I think it comes down to, can you logically justify the price difference between a Grand Highlander and a GLS? No. Luxury goods are not something that make financial sense, they meet wants not needs.

 

I actually don't consider my GLE53 to be a "luxury" purchase, even though it's a hundred K.

I bought it because it satisfies my "needs," which in general are vehicle dynamics, towing, and recreation, all in one vehicle. Safety is a bonus.

Example: Those Needs weren't met with anything within reasonable dollar reach in the 90's, so I restored and drove a '63 Land Cruiser and a '64 356 for 15 years. 300,000 miles between them.

They served my needs until a sedan was necessary, to transport my elderly parents.

The Need then, was defined as "enough room behind the B Pillar for feet, and a good handhold."
It was a Mercedes - a brand I always thought was inferior (it was back then IMO).

Through that, I found a superior service department, which is probably more important to me than the three listed above. We've bought five in two decades, along with a couple of Porsche SUVs for the track, serving the recreational Need (OK, a Want but Recreation is important for the soul). And we got a 27' RV that Needed towing.

My point is that what may be defined as "Luxury" by some may be a solution for other people's Needs.

If I bought a FWD crossover Toyota Ute for $60,000, my "savings" would be wasted on a pickup to do the job. And I'd have to find another way to recreate. AKA More Money.

So to me, a three-in-one vehicle saves a bunch of money. A Honda Pilot isn't even close to serving two of the three.

BTW my ML diesel was better off-road than my Land Cruiser (both far superior to Jeeps). Even though some call it a Luxury vehicle, it handles Black Bear Pass with aplomb.

If all that's needed is an Appliance, go cheap.

FWIW. Different strokes.

 

I think pretty much everybody is going to consider a $100,000 Mercedes a luxury vehicle. The point is your needs are things that venture into wants. Nobody "needs" driving dynamics, that goes beyond just normal comfortable road going which you can do in a much cheaper vehicle. You WANT those dynamics, and thats what drove you to consider a vehicle of this caliber. "Luxury" is a word that means different things to different people, sure.

Point where we agree, a Grand Highlander is not necessarily a better value than a GLS (I use the GLS because sizewise its more comparable than a GLE). Something is not automatically a better value just because it costs less. You also get less. Less performance, less handling ability, less ride comfort and solidity, less build quality, inferior materials and comfort, less style and wow factor, less dealer service. If those things don't matter to you then you'd be wasting your money on the Mercedes, but they do matter to me so I am not wasting my money, its well spent.

 

You are stating your values, not others.

I won't drive a car that falls flat when I turn the wheel. (Except for my MLs, which were pigs but great tow vehicles - Need.)
It scares me not to have a car go where I point it. Not crashing is a Need for me. There's no Luxury about it.

As I said above, Different Strokes.

BTW the average price of a new car today is $48,000+.
Luxury starts around $150k.

Edit: Once upon a time, radial tires were considered a Luxury. Once available, they became a Need for me.
Different Strokes.

 

Nobody "needs" a german sophisticated luxury car's suspension. Every car today is very safe and competent in the handling department. I travel routinely on the same trip that involved back country roads in both my S560 and our Chrysler Pacifica and sure the S560 feels much better and more confidence inspiring at high speeds on the highway and on curvy mountain roads, but the Pacifica is perfectly safe and competent. That is capability that you want. If you could not afford such a car (which the vast majority of people can not) you would be perfectly safe.

You'll have a hard time convincing people that a spending $100-150,000 on a car is not a luxury lol. Sure to some people nothing short of $300,000 is "luxury", but thats not a common conception.