Frenetic

I figured this would be most appropriate here. If anyone knows me, I’m far from a Mercedes apologist. In fact, I refuse to buy or consider any car that leaves Mercedes’ Alabama plant because I think their quality control is **** poor. But, Mercedes, in general, has experienced a lot of 48-Volt issues whereas other major brands have not and Mercedes has received (rightfully so) a lot of flak for it. Well, Mercedes is no longer alone.

Audi, which was an early adopter of 48-Volt technology, is experiencing major issues with their 48-Volt belt starter generator that is leaving people stranded (see below) and taking months to fix. Apparently, it appears very widespread, affecting all models with the 48-Volt system, at least from anecdotal forum reports. I follow Audi closely as I owned their cars and enjoyed my experience. The RS6 is very high on my desirability list. Bottom line is that other manufacturers are not immune to 48-Volt issues. I personally believe the entire technology is a fuel efficiency red herring.

Also, I don’t know if Mercedes had a belt starter generator. I know the current models are inline with the transmission. Did Mercedes have a separate starter generator in early models?

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...nded-in-Alaska!

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...arranty-claims

chassis

Great post as always. 48V system problems are mainly related to the 48V battery itself and the battery management system (BMS) software and electronics. From what I have seen, the ISG (integrated starter generator) whether belt-driven or inline between engine and transmission have caused far fewer problems.

In summary, it’s a lithium battery and BMS software problem in the industry. 48V systems are beta products and I have no intention of conducting the car companies’ prototype testing in my driveway.

MB as a special case is a generally unreliable manufacturer, independent of the 48V issue. Within MB, the Vance plant is a particularly low quality plant.

Beta product (48V systems) + unreliable company (MB) + low quality plant (Vance) = train wreck.

Lucky 777

You guys should really go buy a Honda...

Ron.s

You always seem to have an opinion stated as fact. 48V BEV’s across the industry are problematic and pack a lot of combustible Lithium. Mercedes may be ahead of many others now with few reported failures of late.

Porsche BEV buybacks are numerous but so far underreported. Even sinking a ship or two didn’t stay in the headlines for long.
The Lithium battery in your 2019 Cayenne is reaching EOL, as 2019 9Y0’s are beginning to fail and replacement $2500-$3000. I don’t see you jumping into those threads bashing Porsche. Since you have no actual experience/ownership with the V167, your opinion comes across as a vendetta…which it is, IMO.

suby01

I thought I was the only one. Clearly not so much. FLIES AWAAYY.

Frenetic

Also, ironically, the pace and frequency of reported 48-Volt issues here has slowed down. I’m not saying Mercedes' 48-Volt system is now more trouble free than Audis, but if you take forum post anecdotes at face value, it seems maybe Mercedes is slowly turning the corner on these issues. Although long-term reliability remains to be seen.

retom

Mercedes has a problem with 48V battery when Audi has a problem with 48V BSG. Additionally faulty BSG sometimes can damage also 48V battery. Both problems in MB and Audi immobilize the car completely. Also in these two brands, the problem is quite widespread and manufacturers cannot keep up with the production of replacement parts, hence long waits at dealers. However, replacing the 48V battery in an MB is simpler and faster than replacing the BSG in an Audi.

Frenetic

Yeah, when I say “48-Volt” it’s analogous to the entire 48-Volt mild-hybrid system. It doesn’t matter to me what particular component fails, as any failure to it results in the same outcome.

mikapen

Mercedes BMW have jointly had problems with their 48 volt battery production, partly through some skullduggery.

The short story is that those two were making some advanced batteries with advanced production. Grohmann Engineering GmbH was their partner. Tesla was a customer.
Tesla bought Grohmann and their (i.e. MB, BMW & Bosch) tech, broke the contract with the three.
The former owner, Klaus Grohmann, objected and Tesla fired him.
Here's a link to my post about it - https://mbworld.org/forums/gle-class...ml#post8675428

Two years later, in 2020, a similar thing happened.

https://electrek.co/2020/10/02/tesla-tsla-acquires-german-battery-assembly-line-maker-supplying-bmw-mercedes/

but by then Mercedes had decided to go with another joint venture with CATL (Contemporary Amperex Technology Co., Limited)
and has started their own gigafactories -
https://group.mercedes-benz.com/innovation/digitalisation/industry-4-0/article-2.html#:~:text=The%20Stuttgart%2Dbased%20luxury%20 car,and%20systems%20supplied%20by%20CATL

Here's a release from Mercedes with links to various parts of their EV strategy.
https://group.mercedes-benz.com/innovation/battery-factories.html#:~:text=Mercedes%2DBenz%20is%20esta blishing%20locations,producing%20batteries%20in%20 the%20future

To say that batteries and EVS are very competitive industries, would be an understatement.

I think the Tesla/Grohmann story is illustrative.