newyorktoLA

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...301169981/1423

MBNA109

Thanks. Any other details on the diesel configurations?

02Drunkenup

diesels are nice and all with their gas mileage and torque..

but the headline I'd want to see is "GLK 63 confirmed for MY13"

GLKKa2H

According to the statement given by Steve Cannon is the diesel in question the GLK 250 CDI BlueEFFIENCY.

MB specifications: The engine of this model is the OM651, 204 PS / 4.200 rpm, 500 NM (368,79 lb/ft) / 1.600–1.800 rpm. With ECO Start-Stop-Function.

Transmission is the 7G-TRONIC PLUS.

Mileages:
- City: 7,4–7,1 l/100km (31.8-33.1 MPG)
- Highway (außerorts): 5,9–5,5 (39.9-42.8)
- Combined: 6,5–6,1 (36.2-38.6)

venchka

That makes me think "coulda, shoulda, woulda" waited.

Wayne

bop11

Be careful what you wish for.
I owned 2 MB diesels, a 1967 300D and a 2003 300SD turbo-diesel. Both were great cars and I put over 250K on each of them with only the later car needing transmission work and starters. However, when the temp got below +25°F they were murder to start even plugged in (circulating heaters and battery blankets). Each had glow plugs for starting. Because of the long starts, they went through 2 starter motors each.
Millage was good but performance was slow. Probably putting a gas engine with that little HP would have gotten as good mileage. Of course back then diesel fuel was usually way below regular in cost. Now it is way above premium.
Also, old diesels were mechanically injected, so once started you didn't need the battery. Now they are high pressure rail with electronic injection. All that electronics makes them as prone to problems as gas cars. Lose the electric power and the car stops
VW diesels need some sort of urea liquid injection tank to make theirs conform to smog rules. I don't know if this applies to MB.
I have a mechanically injected boat diesel with over 2000 hours, with no maintenance but oil changes, but like truck diesels it never turns more than 2000 rpm. This means piston travel per mile is very low and that is what wears the engine. Trucks log 500,000 miles between tear down. My old MB's topped out at 3000 rpm, but the newer diesels are running 5000 rpm or better. Don't expect to get the same engine miles as the slow turners.
One more thing, diesels run UN-throttled. This means that unless you have a "Jake Brake", like truckers, the engine does not slow you down when you take your foot off the gas. This makes them tougher on brakes. You need to get use to this on the road.
All this being said, down here in PA, I would consider the diesel. They are very popular in Europe. But do the math on cost per mile, and cold starts before you decide.

venchka

Thank you so much. I did say think about. Not act on. Like the new direct injection gasoline engines that were sitting in cars on the lot next to my new GLK, maybe I'm better off with a proven gasoline engine. Besides, it would always pain me to pay $0.20-$0.50 more for diesel. And fuel filter/seperators. And batteries. And starters. Etc. Etc.
I do like the GLK 350 engine. I'm not thrilled with the gas mileage. That is due in large part to the additional frontal area. The price I pay to look down on all the sedans. I'm good.

Wayne

MBNA109

I would like for some eco/gas saver expert to comment on bop11's experiences.
Because if you read on the net, diesel is the end all & be all counter to hybrid tech & even regular gasoline in terms of costs & operational efficiency.

venchka

Unscientific, anecdotal evidence from my daughter: Cold weather is a bear on a diesel box truck they use for business.
Conversely, if you visit the ML forum, folks there have been using diesels in North America for a number of years. In some very cold places. Go figure.
I do think that there are long term maintenance costs that don't often get discussed.
Then there is the ever present fuel cost differential in the US. That can not be escaped.
I have noticed that M-B has little or no diesel premium charge like other makers. The extra diesel charge on the VW Jetta is obscene.
20 mpg on premium gas in our GLK350 vs. 40 mpg for diesel in a GLK is hard to dismiss.
Hybrids: Bah! Humbug! All of the parts of a gas vehicle PLUS all of the parts of an electric vehicle. Fuhgetaboutit.
Flip a coin.

Wayne

jonnyrt

Here here! Well said Wayne, I could not begin to tell everyone how many different dealers have told me, the only value you get with a Hybrid is the extra dollars you receive from recycling the batteries once the vehicle hits the dump. There is so much misconception in the marketplace with the loosely used term "hybrid," the real deal maker is if a vehicle is purely electric. They have been using purely electric cars in Europe for years now. A few years ago when I got out of college, was looking at a Ford Escape Hybrid versus a Ford Escape V6. When I ran all the economics, in order to see to a cost savings to justify the high cost of the hybrid, I would have to drive an huge excess amount of kilometers every year.

The answer....DIESEL! If a Diesel were offered on my 2012 GLK, I would be all over that.....

venchka

Thank you.

We need more input. Hopefully our friends in the vast frozen wastelands of North America will chime in on the useability of M-B diesels in negative number temperatures.


Electric cars: My current driving pattern consists of 9 daily commutes of 9 miles each. Round off to 100 miles in 9 days counting social and grocery trips. Followed by a 500 mile round trip home every other weekend. You tell me how I can do that with one electric vehicle. I can't. Nor can I justify an urban electric and a conventional highway car. In North America, outside of central urban city use, electric cars make no sense at all. Even if you did have one for urban use, you have to rent a car or fly to get the heck out of Dodge. There goes your carbon footprint.

Wayne

GLKKa2H

75% of cars currently being sold in the "wastelands of THE North" are diesels. But then it's not really cold up here - lowest temperature measured January 1999 was only -51.2° C - -60.2° F.

venchka

Input from the REAL north. Thank you!
The next question: How much winterizing is done for the diesel systems? If I had to guess, we don't get the same treatment here in North America where it doesn't get really cold.

Wayne

venchka

I knew it. It seems that the Blue Juice system, probably not used in Europe, is one of the cold weather gremlins.

From 60 miles outside Calgary, AB. Cold, but not brutally cold.

https://mbworld.org/forums/m-class-w...d-weather.html

I'm happy with our GLK350.

Wayne

GLKKa2H

The important part is that the fuel companies adds additives according to temperatures in various areas. Which every year catches some drivers, filling diesel in lower areas/higher temperatures and then drives into the mountains/low temperatures - and get stuck with wax dropout in the fuel filter!

A paper from bp, "Changing diesel low temperatures properties using additives": http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_inte..._Additives.pdf

Then keeping the tank filled to avoid moisture is (always) a good habit.

Heaters, either electrical (to utility outlets) or "powered" by fuel, are commonly used at standstill. For the engine and compartment.

AND, at last but not at least: Keep the battery well charged. A fully charged battery (100%) at ambient temperature of +20°C (68F) may have dropped to 75% capacity at 0°C (32°F) and 50% at -18°C (-0.4°F). 70% charged at +20°C may have dropped to 35% at -18°C.

Our GLK has a built-in trickle charger together with the engine - and compartment heaters - to "plug-and-play" with the cold.

GLKKa2H

FYI: There are no GLK BlueTECs (so far), and the BlueEFFICIENCies do not need urea for fertilizing.

thebishman

This is so far from the reality seen with modern diesel engines it's not even funny. Please before you make completely invalid assumptions about modern, especially European, diesel engines do some research. These engines are clean, quiet, have plenty of horsepower and tremendous amounts of torque, (most important in SUVs, etc), start easily in cold climates, have about 33% better fuel economy than their petrol counterparts, and are extremely long lived. We have owned a 2008 GL 320 CDI for over three years and 50K miles. It has been bulletproof, economical and starts every time regardless of the weather. It also has held its value far better than its petrol counterparts.
As for the cost of diesel in the USA, it is partly a function of the amount of refinery production allotted to diesel here versus Europe. If more crude production was allocated to diesel, the price would decrease. This may happen (hopefully) over time as more people purchase diesel engined vehicles. One things for sure; if everyone today was driving an SUV, pick-up or minivan with a modern diesel engine in them instead of a petrol engine, the need for oil imports here in the US would be dramatically reduced.
Bish

dgiturbo

Hey BOP11, sorry, but pretty much all what you wrote is invalid by today's standards. Bish already explained most of it, but had to mention the "throttle" thing and others.
These modern Mercedes diesels do use a throttle, albeit not the way a gas engine does. Also the compression ratio is so high, as you lift off the accelerator, the engine braking effect is so strong that you hardly need as much braking. So brakes on these diesels tend to last longer. I got 90K miles on my original brakes, and can coast to a stop much faster than other cars around me that are showing brake lights.
Also, look at Mercedes website. They state the same 0-60 for both the gas and diesel ML!! And the E class diesel goes to 60 in 6.7 seconds.
For cold weather, the modern ceramic glow plugs heats up in milliseconds, and the engine fires right up. For mine, -30F morning start has not been a problem, 1st twist of the key and instant idle, no block heater thank you. And with today's gear reduction starters in my ML and the Bluetec's I have test driven, these engine crank over just as fast as the gas engines do. They also rev to 4000 plus RPM with twin cam, variable valve timing and you can't tell it's a diesel at idle. 100,000 miles, several brutal Chicago winters, (even as I type), and this is still my go anywhere vehicle. 50-80 miles one way to work, and still pulls away from many vehicles if I stomp it.

As for the GLK diesel, I am a diesel fan but ordered the 2012 gas model for my wife for two reasons. 1. She only drives 10 miles one way to work, thus no real mileage advantage. Gas GLK give about 23MPG, and even if the diesel gives 33, your talking .1 gal of gas extra per trip, or about a gallon of gas a week vs the diesel. 2 We ordered the vehicle for now, and have to wait til March for it so far. Diesel may be in late in this year, and who knows what production delays may creep in.
Don't sweat the freezing Blue urea thing. All new trucks have to have it, so a fix is forthcoming if not out already.

isstay

Diesel GLK will get dual clutch 7 seed transmission to make it more attractive to buyers.

dougiebear

Since SYNTHETIC OIL came along "never" a problem

dougiebear

About 80% of ML's in Canada are diesels. As with ALL cars use SYNTHETIC dont be so cheap you only change oil about 2-3 times a year max. At least in winter time. It's required by most highend engines as well

dougiebear

Where did you hear this? Great if true.
Great if for North America

GLKKa2H

I think the 7G-DCT 7-speed transmission might be a little premature for the 2013 GLK, as it currently is an option of the new W246 B-Class, there as a replacement of the Continuously Variable Transmission(CVT).

The "New Mercedes Compact Car Design Centered Around DCT", by DCTFACTS.com: http://www.dctfacts.com/in-the-marke...round-DCT.aspx.

venchka

If the diesel does in fact come equipped with the go/no go "feature", would this other transmission be required?

Wayne

listerone

That may have been true years ago but it's not true today.(Extreme) case in point:a year ago,while in northern Quebec,my 2009 BMW diesel started with *no problem at all* at -31F...after having sat for 12 hours in temperatures *well* below zero (farenheit) with no heaters,battery chargers or fuel additives.Locally blended fuel and a good battery are all that *today's* diesels need to start in *very* cold temperatures.
Yes,that's true of MB as well as other diesels here in the US.A tankful of that solution costs about $25,can easily be refilled by the owner and lasts 10K miles or more (mine is at 11K miles and still no "low fluid" warning).It's a *very* minor issue.