slk32 vs 6.0 GTO
08-11-2008, 09:00 AM
#126
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The only problem is that it's still a Pontiac.
08-11-2008, 10:04 AM
#127
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HLG600 - "performance". See above.
08-11-2008, 11:23 PM
#128
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CLS55 AMG
Horse hooey. Who made you the judge of what criterion are, and are not, relevant here? If the guy in the cheaper car decides to run the guy in the faster car, then the MSRP doesn't matter.
Subjective, and irrelevant.
Subjective, and irrelevant.
08-12-2008, 11:26 AM
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Subjective and irrelevant? Show me a new Mercedes at $30k that can out perform what was a new $30k GTO. Thought so.
08-12-2008, 12:58 PM
#130
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better than luxury
08-12-2008, 03:51 PM
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CLS55 AMG
On the performance front: $5 Casio keeps better time than a $9200 Rolex SS Daytona, but guess which one can be turned around and sold for $1500+ over list?
Inferiority complex at work here? Because the guy who bought the SLK32 new could have bought two of the GTOs, but obviously had the good sense not to, as did most people interested in that segment. There are nice American muscle cars available, but this iteration of the goat was a total disappointment.
08-12-2008, 07:47 PM
#134
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02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
Thats why my bro is getting rid of his 04 GTO. I couldve got a new 05-06 GTO with 400hp but styling is bland and has no class. Just a big motor with a Pontiac logo for $30k+. Whats up with the Pont G8? Looks like another Grand prix!
08-12-2008, 10:11 PM
#135
No, you don't. Luxury is a separate item from performance, friend, which is why AMGs cost a tad bit more than entry level models. ALL Mercedes have luxury, SOME have very high performance, and the price goes up commensurately.
On the performance front: $5 Casio keeps better time than a $9200 Rolex SS Daytona, but guess which one can be turned around and sold for $1500+ over list?
Who gives a ****? The GTO was a total flop in the US, chiefly because it looks like a Cavalier. It's funny that you have to resort to lame class-warfare style arguments whenever an American car gets smoked by a German car. The fact is that this car is about as popular as a case of herpes, for good reason: it is utterly undistinctive and boring from any styling standpoint, and looked like a compact $17/day rental car, not a flagship performance coupe...and the sales figures showed this, as buyers held up their noses and steered clear of it. So what if it's fast?
Inferiority complex at work here? Because the guy who bought the SLK32 new could have bought two of the GTOs, but obviously had the good sense not to, as did most people interested in that segment. There are nice American muscle cars available, but this iteration of the goat was a total disappointment.
On the performance front: $5 Casio keeps better time than a $9200 Rolex SS Daytona, but guess which one can be turned around and sold for $1500+ over list?
Who gives a ****? The GTO was a total flop in the US, chiefly because it looks like a Cavalier. It's funny that you have to resort to lame class-warfare style arguments whenever an American car gets smoked by a German car. The fact is that this car is about as popular as a case of herpes, for good reason: it is utterly undistinctive and boring from any styling standpoint, and looked like a compact $17/day rental car, not a flagship performance coupe...and the sales figures showed this, as buyers held up their noses and steered clear of it. So what if it's fast?
Inferiority complex at work here? Because the guy who bought the SLK32 new could have bought two of the GTOs, but obviously had the good sense not to, as did most people interested in that segment. There are nice American muscle cars available, but this iteration of the goat was a total disappointment.
Problem with Pontiac in my opinion is they really do all look the same. The one Pontiac I'm in love with was Pontiac thinking way outside the box for the time with the 70 Trans Am. The G8 is at least a stab in the right direction though. Making it look the the BMW makes it more popular that just inside the Pontiac ring. Folks that can't aford the bimmer may very well opt for the G8.
Last edited by hkycoldrct; 08-12-2008 at 10:15 PM.
08-12-2008, 10:36 PM
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CLS55 AMG
It seems that GM's big cure-all is to throw the Vette engine in other brands and they figure it will sell it self. Pontiac missed the mark on the GTO and I think this is why you see them moving ahead cautiously with the Camero re-incarnation. The GTO's were sitting on lots collecting dust. Every time I took my Co. car in for service they were ready to wheel and deal to mover them.
Problem with Pontiac in my opinion is they really do all look the same. The one Pontiac I'm in love with was Pontiac thinking way outside the box for the time with the 70 Trans Am. The G8 is at least a stab in the right direction though. Making it look the the BMW makes it more popular that just inside the Pontiac ring. Folks that can't aford the bimmer may very well opt for the G8.
Problem with Pontiac in my opinion is they really do all look the same. The one Pontiac I'm in love with was Pontiac thinking way outside the box for the time with the 70 Trans Am. The G8 is at least a stab in the right direction though. Making it look the the BMW makes it more popular that just inside the Pontiac ring. Folks that can't aford the bimmer may very well opt for the G8.
But yeah, those GTOs are butt-ugly. I actually followed the release with great anticipation (was rooting for GM, believe it or not), but when I saw it I was like "Wtf?!?!?"
08-12-2008, 11:43 PM
#137
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+1
I’ve long admired Pontiacs - from the 1964 GTO through their ’74 SD 455 TA & Formula.
When properly equipped, they were able to more than hold their own against the cars of the era. Immense backdoor engineering support that found its way to Detroit’s Woodward Avenue and, shortly thereafter, the dragstrip. The ~81,000 GTOs (excluding it lesser Tempest and LeMans variants) sold in 1967 were testament to their market penetration. Highly profitable for GM. Those were indeed GM’s glory years, as they’ve continued to lose market share since those heady days. They’re still a worthwhile collectable investment, if that’s your cup of tea.
I’ve been trounced by a few LS1 and LS2 GTOs at the local ‘strip. Beat some, too. Rather pleased to head back home in the MB, regardless. For a Monaro to have ever been badged as a GTO is blasphemous, imho. Robert Lutz’s intentions were (and are) well founded. He only has so much with which to work. It did, however, fail miserably in the contemporary marketplace.
Had a go with a young buck in a G8 the other day. He went 0 for 3.
To his credit, he gestured with an upwardly-extended thumb.
I’ve long admired Pontiacs - from the 1964 GTO through their ’74 SD 455 TA & Formula.
When properly equipped, they were able to more than hold their own against the cars of the era. Immense backdoor engineering support that found its way to Detroit’s Woodward Avenue and, shortly thereafter, the dragstrip. The ~81,000 GTOs (excluding it lesser Tempest and LeMans variants) sold in 1967 were testament to their market penetration. Highly profitable for GM. Those were indeed GM’s glory years, as they’ve continued to lose market share since those heady days. They’re still a worthwhile collectable investment, if that’s your cup of tea.
I’ve been trounced by a few LS1 and LS2 GTOs at the local ‘strip. Beat some, too. Rather pleased to head back home in the MB, regardless. For a Monaro to have ever been badged as a GTO is blasphemous, imho. Robert Lutz’s intentions were (and are) well founded. He only has so much with which to work. It did, however, fail miserably in the contemporary marketplace.
Had a go with a young buck in a G8 the other day. He went 0 for 3.
To his credit, he gestured with an upwardly-extended thumb.
08-13-2008, 12:44 AM
#138
+1
I’ve long admired Pontiacs - from the 1964 GTO through their ’74 SD 455 TA & Formula.
When properly equipped, they were able to more than hold their own against the cars of the era. Immense backdoor engineering support that found its way to Detroit’s Woodward Avenue and, shortly thereafter, the dragstrip. The ~81,000 GTOs (excluding it lesser Tempest and LeMans variants) sold in 1967 were testament to their market penetration. Highly profitable for GM. Those were indeed GM’s glory years, as they’ve continued to lose market share since those heady days. They’re still a worthwhile collectable investment, if that’s your cup of tea.
I’ve been trounced by a few LS1 and LS2 GTOs at the local ‘strip. Beat some, too. Rather pleased to head back home in the MB, regardless. For a Monaro to have ever been badged as a GTO is blasphemous, imho. Robert Lutz’s intentions were (and are) well founded. He only has so much with which to work. It did, however, fail miserably in the contemporary marketplace.
Had a go with a young buck in a G8 the other day. He went 0 for 3.
To his credit, he gestured with an upwardly-extended thumb.
I’ve long admired Pontiacs - from the 1964 GTO through their ’74 SD 455 TA & Formula.
When properly equipped, they were able to more than hold their own against the cars of the era. Immense backdoor engineering support that found its way to Detroit’s Woodward Avenue and, shortly thereafter, the dragstrip. The ~81,000 GTOs (excluding it lesser Tempest and LeMans variants) sold in 1967 were testament to their market penetration. Highly profitable for GM. Those were indeed GM’s glory years, as they’ve continued to lose market share since those heady days. They’re still a worthwhile collectable investment, if that’s your cup of tea.
I’ve been trounced by a few LS1 and LS2 GTOs at the local ‘strip. Beat some, too. Rather pleased to head back home in the MB, regardless. For a Monaro to have ever been badged as a GTO is blasphemous, imho. Robert Lutz’s intentions were (and are) well founded. He only has so much with which to work. It did, however, fail miserably in the contemporary marketplace.
Had a go with a young buck in a G8 the other day. He went 0 for 3.
To his credit, he gestured with an upwardly-extended thumb.
It amazes me that there were so few SD's built but you can find a new listing a week advertising 'all original numbers matching' SD's! Le old buyer beware!I test drove a G8 and it wasn't near as peppy as the 'ol trey-deuce. Maybe the GXP G8 offering will be a little more lively. How badly did you trounce on the G8? Stock or any mods to it?
08-13-2008, 10:04 AM
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08-13-2008, 10:07 AM
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If you want to introduce $50k and higher cars to the equation, then look at the Corvette.
That's the point.
Last edited by Deuuuce; 08-13-2008 at 10:49 AM.
08-13-2008, 01:44 PM
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Inventing quotes now for yourself? You never argued this. What you're doing is changing your argument to suit the facts, and this is BS. Someone said that Goats are neither luxurious nor fast (the second point is, imo, false), and then you chimed in about the price point.
So instead of discussing apples to apples (speed), you want to discuss oranges and watermelons.
So? I'm not arguing with him, I'm arguing with you, and you pulled $30K out of the air in a discussion about performance, because you can't win on the main issue, so you have to resort to a red herring argument about $30K.
Actually, you should lower the price point on the GTO, because frankly few people were stupid enough to pay full sticker for them, and even fewer bought them at the deeply discounted prices that GM had to offer to get those things off their hands.
Odd, you seemed to be singing a different tune a few posts back...what was it you said, ah, yes:
Hmm, I believe we have a flip-flop here, ladies and gents!
Actually, it is more luxurious, infinitely more prestigious, and offers the added benefit of NOT looking like a Cavalier. It also has infinitely more quality parts used in its construction, a more sophisticated engine, transmission, standard items, and a host of other features that the rental-car looking GTO doesn't have, for example a seven speed automatic transmission, versus four in the GTO.
Funny, I thought the point was the race between these two cars (looks at title of thread). Oh, gee, that's because that IS the point of this discussion, your little 
banter aside.
So instead of discussing apples to apples (speed), you want to discuss oranges and watermelons.
Actually, you should lower the price point on the GTO, because frankly few people were stupid enough to pay full sticker for them, and even fewer bought them at the deeply discounted prices that GM had to offer to get those things off their hands.
Actually, it is more luxurious, infinitely more prestigious, and offers the added benefit of NOT looking like a Cavalier. It also has infinitely more quality parts used in its construction, a more sophisticated engine, transmission, standard items, and a host of other features that the rental-car looking GTO doesn't have, for example a seven speed automatic transmission, versus four in the GTO.
banter aside.
Last edited by Improviz; 08-13-2008 at 01:47 PM.
08-13-2008, 02:19 PM
#145
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The only GTO I like is the one in the movie "XxX" with Vin Diesel and Asia Argento. The new ones are longer Grand Prixs. Not even in the same league as an AMG.
08-14-2008, 01:48 AM
#146
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03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
Inventing quotes now for yourself? You never argued this. What you're doing is changing your argument to suit the facts, and this is BS. Someone said that Goats are neither luxurious nor fast (the second point is, imo, false), and then you chimed in about the price point.
So instead of discussing apples to apples (speed), you want to discuss oranges and watermelons.
So? I'm not arguing with him, I'm arguing with you, and you pulled $30K out of the air in a discussion about performance, because you can't win on the main issue, so you have to resort to a red herring argument about $30K.
Actually, you should lower the price point on the GTO, because frankly few people were stupid enough to pay full sticker for them, and even fewer bought them at the deeply discounted prices that GM had to offer to get those things off their hands.
Odd, you seemed to be singing a different tune a few posts back...what was it you said, ah, yes:
Hmm, I believe we have a flip-flop here, ladies and gents!
Actually, it is more luxurious, infinitely more prestigious, and offers the added benefit of NOT looking like a Cavalier. It also has infinitely more quality parts used in its construction, a more sophisticated engine, transmission, standard items, and a host of other features that the rental-car looking GTO doesn't have, for example a seven speed automatic transmission, versus four in the GTO.
Funny, I thought the point was the race between these two cars (looks at title of thread). Oh, gee, that's because that IS the point of this discussion, your little banter aside.
So instead of discussing apples to apples (speed), you want to discuss oranges and watermelons.
So? I'm not arguing with him, I'm arguing with you, and you pulled $30K out of the air in a discussion about performance, because you can't win on the main issue, so you have to resort to a red herring argument about $30K.
Actually, you should lower the price point on the GTO, because frankly few people were stupid enough to pay full sticker for them, and even fewer bought them at the deeply discounted prices that GM had to offer to get those things off their hands.
Odd, you seemed to be singing a different tune a few posts back...what was it you said, ah, yes:
Hmm, I believe we have a flip-flop here, ladies and gents!
Actually, it is more luxurious, infinitely more prestigious, and offers the added benefit of NOT looking like a Cavalier. It also has infinitely more quality parts used in its construction, a more sophisticated engine, transmission, standard items, and a host of other features that the rental-car looking GTO doesn't have, for example a seven speed automatic transmission, versus four in the GTO.
Funny, I thought the point was the race between these two cars (looks at title of thread). Oh, gee, that's because that IS the point of this discussion, your little
banter aside.1+
08-14-2008, 10:30 AM
#147
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Inventing quotes now for yourself? You never argued this. What you're doing is changing your argument to suit the facts, and this is BS. Someone said that Goats are neither luxurious nor fast (the second point is, imo, false), and then you chimed in about the price point.
So instead of discussing apples to apples (speed), you want to discuss oranges and watermelons.
So? I'm not arguing with him, I'm arguing with you, and you pulled $30K out of the air in a discussion about performance, because you can't win on the main issue, so you have to resort to a red herring argument about $30K.
Actually, you should lower the price point on the GTO, because frankly few people were stupid enough to pay full sticker for them, and even fewer bought them at the deeply discounted prices that GM had to offer to get those things off their hands.
Odd, you seemed to be singing a different tune a few posts back...what was it you said, ah, yes:
Hmm, I believe we have a flip-flop here, ladies and gents!
Actually, it is more luxurious, infinitely more prestigious, and offers the added benefit of NOT looking like a Cavalier. It also has infinitely more quality parts used in its construction, a more sophisticated engine, transmission, standard items, and a host of other features that the rental-car looking GTO doesn't have, for example a seven speed automatic transmission, versus four in the GTO.
Funny, I thought the point was the race between these two cars (looks at title of thread). Oh, gee, that's because that IS the point of this discussion, your little banter aside.
So instead of discussing apples to apples (speed), you want to discuss oranges and watermelons.
So? I'm not arguing with him, I'm arguing with you, and you pulled $30K out of the air in a discussion about performance, because you can't win on the main issue, so you have to resort to a red herring argument about $30K.
Actually, you should lower the price point on the GTO, because frankly few people were stupid enough to pay full sticker for them, and even fewer bought them at the deeply discounted prices that GM had to offer to get those things off their hands.
Odd, you seemed to be singing a different tune a few posts back...what was it you said, ah, yes:
Hmm, I believe we have a flip-flop here, ladies and gents!
Actually, it is more luxurious, infinitely more prestigious, and offers the added benefit of NOT looking like a Cavalier. It also has infinitely more quality parts used in its construction, a more sophisticated engine, transmission, standard items, and a host of other features that the rental-car looking GTO doesn't have, for example a seven speed automatic transmission, versus four in the GTO.
Funny, I thought the point was the race between these two cars (looks at title of thread). Oh, gee, that's because that IS the point of this discussion, your little
banter aside.The statement is a GTO is neither luxurious or fast. Neither is a Mercedes that costs the same amount. And the only way to compare is MSRP vs. MSRP. If you don't understand that, then there is no need to continue.
A flip-flop? Oh please. The Mercedes, while still having more content than the GTO, is hardly a "luxurious car" at $30k.
I could give a crap about the styling, that's not the topic either.
If you want to brag about a $50-$60k AMG Mercedes for luxury or speed (and not by much) vs. a GTO, that's just being an arrogant ***** that would be laughed off any other forum. You pay for what you get.
Last edited by Deuuuce; 08-14-2008 at 10:40 AM.
08-14-2008, 11:03 AM
#148
The GTO is a bungle except for the engine. We know Detroit can make some of the best motors in the world that's not even a question. But its the whole package, the Pontiac is just a flop.
You want ***** and nice styling wait for the SS Camaro.
The SLK? AMG or not, its a car for women and Merlot sippin' nancy boys.
You want ***** and nice styling wait for the SS Camaro.
The SLK? AMG or not, its a car for women and Merlot sippin' nancy boys.
08-15-2008, 01:14 AM
#149
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CLS55 AMG
You have a ridiculous method of confusing the debate. For the second time, go back and read the post.
The statement is a GTO is neither luxurious or fast. Neither is a Mercedes that costs the same amount. And the only way to compare is MSRP vs. MSRP. If you don't understand that, then there is no need to continue.
The statement is a GTO is neither luxurious or fast. Neither is a Mercedes that costs the same amount. And the only way to compare is MSRP vs. MSRP. If you don't understand that, then there is no need to continue.
Hmm, let's see here; first, you said:
Nicely done.
No, it seems quite apparent that insofar as you are concerned, the topic is whatever you deem it to be, excluding of course the one which this thread is actually about.
But here's a challenge for you: find me any automotive publication which listed the GTO as a "luxury" car. And find me one which does NOT list Mercedes as a luxury car.
Good luck.
Aren't your hands getting just a wee bit tired of grasping at straws and holding up red herrings?
But hey, here's a nice thing: we can compare. Let's just have a look at the "nonluxurious" C300, which retails at the same price as the GTO, via autos.msn.com, checked also at a few other sites (mbusa, edmunds) :
GTO C300
tranny: 4 spd auto 7 spd auto
warranty: 3/36 4/48
lifetime roadside assist n/a std
engine 16V, 67 hp/litre 24v, 76 hp/litre
brake assist n/a std
VSC n/a std
dual climate control n/a std
front side airbags n/a std
f/r side head curtain airbags n/a std
speed sensitive steering n/a std
interior air filtration n/a std
sunroof n/a std
one touch up/dn pwr windows n/a std
open/close windows/sunroof w/remote n/a std
sun sensor for climate control n/a std
weatherband radio n/a std
wood trim n/a std
tire pressure monitoring n/a std
bluetooth interface n/a std
Items available on Benz not offered on GTO: auto dimming mirrors, rain sensing wipers, navigation, bi-xenon headlights, subwoofer, dvd player, heated exterior mirrors, heated seats, folding rear seat, hands free phone, telematic system, homelink system, satellite radio, heated headlight washers, rear power sunshade, 10 way memory drivers seat including power steering column w/memory, satellite radio, voice control for nav system.
Oh, yeah....that's "barely" a win if ever there was one!!
Oh, so out trots the class warfare argument again, along with name calling. You seem to have a lot of resentment towards Mercedes owners. Well, **** off, friend: I worked hard to get where I am, and make apologies to no one; NOTHING was handed to me on a silver platter, and I'm not "arrogant", I'm simply dismantling your silly argument brick by brick.
Last edited by Improviz; 08-15-2008 at 01:33 AM.
