Stiggs

I don't see these caddies too often on the road. I've actually only seen one up here in wonderful CT.

I would defenitely like to race one.


Gee I love this thread.

CHATMANR

It would a nice race indeeed...if you can find one to run against...

Stiggs

Oh man...I actually heard one of these caddies take off out of the Pharmacy parking lot the other day. I was outside and heard the dude nail the throttle. I walked outside because I could see the car sitting in the parking lot.

It sounded bad @ss. I wish I caught the guy before he pulled away. I could have shot the **** with him. Somewhere around here....someone is driving a black one.

CHATMANR

Yup, they do sound pretty sweet...

Stiggs

*bump*
sorry...I was bored and missed this thread!

outtadaloop

Cadillac...ugh! what else can I say?

Honduh_guy

Well, you can always say "much faster than my - slow - 320".

Co 55 AMG

I've never seen one.

viper65

Of course, THAT is still a Cadillac and my SL65 IS a Mercedes Benz!

OneFastZ

21 Pages later...

As a current corvette owner and a Mercedes owner. I can say without a doubt that my C32 is 100X's better then my Z06 except in straight line performance.

Who cares if some american car is faster.. It doesn't add up to the quality of a MB

FThornton666

Why buy a 50,000 dollar impala with a Cadillac badge, when you can own a Fine German Automobile? M3, C32/C55,C43,S4>>>>>Caddy CTS-V. One day GM will learn you cant just stick a big engine in a car and expect it to compete. They need refinement, and until that day i will never look at a caddy.

tuscanraider

That'll show 'em. Who does GM think they are anyway, the world's largest auto manufacturer? Oh wait...........they are.....


I think they will do OK without your business.

FThornton666

yea because there are enough ignorant people out there in the world who would rather buy 2 crappy cars from gm, than 1 good car from Mercedes, or BMW. Also id rather have it for them to be the largest. That way when they fall, they fall hard. Ford, and Chrysler have both seen the light. Quality not quanity, yet GM continues on blind.

tuscanraider

Whatever makes the money.

lisamcgu

48 x 2 = 96,000

Last I heard, even with a markup, the SLK55 doesn't cost $96,000, and it beats this clunky cadi in looks, accessories and quality, and matches it in performance, if your 4.7 0-60 stat is correct.

nasdaqsam

I'm fairly new to the MBWorld forums here so maybe I am speaking out of line but it seems there is quite a bit of American automobile car bashing going on. I can appreciate all the acoomplishments of many fine auto makers I have complete respect for MB, BMW, and the rest but I feel a little respect for the US cars is in line also.

Lets face it how many years was it before MB actually built a production vehicle that even comes close to what Ford and Shelby created over 35 years ago. I'm not up in the specs but does MB make one today that matchs a 67 Shelby Cobra in acceleration and braking. May I add this did this with out the aid of computers and wind tunels. Is there a single MB or BMW that has a following so loyal that they created there own castings to recreate the car just so they can build and drive one? How about the Corvettes of yester year. Some of the fastest cars ever built. The 429 Mustang CJ, The Hemi Cuda, The super Bee etc etc. These cars where all built years and years ahead of what MB accomplishs today. As for the Viper, Mercedes had nothing to do with that. That was Dodges long before Mercedes came around.

Almost all high performance cars have there good and bad points. I can appreciate a finely crafted automobile from any country but can you appreciate a 600 horse fire breathing muscle car? Have you driven both? I have. I have driven many fine vehicles but I have also owned a 600 horse big block Corvette with tri power. No power brakes, no power steering, no power windows or door locks, and you have to be kidding a cup holder?????

You can say all you want but until you have sat at a red light and had the teeth rattled out of your head waiting for the next sucker you can not truely say you have any way of comparing the two different types of vehicles. Can your super charged computer generated cars drop down to second gear at 70 MPH and light the tires up so bad the car stops moving just to immerge out of a cloud of tire smoke? A little respect for the US auto makers
is certainly due. Not to mention, just how many automakers other than the U.S. can boast of having production cars that 35 years later are worth up to 100 times there original price regardless of the condition? Not many but the U.S. has a laundry list of them.

There is something to be said for all performance vehicles so please stop bashing the U.S. unless you have actually driven one to compare.

As for the quality issues of today, may I remind you it is the U.S. auto makers that have brought quality control to a few foreign car makers. Jaguar and Range Rover to name a few and yes I have owned both and like it or not there is a reason MB and Chrysler have joined.

Sorry for the rant I just hate when people go on and on comparing vehicles when they have never actually driven both of the vehicles they are talking about. Drive a true U.S. Muscle car and then see if you feel the same way about them.

Improviz

No, you're not up on the specs, because Mercedes makes several models which tested faster than '67 Shelby Cobras: the SLR, the CL65, the SL65, and the SL65.

In fact, Road & Track tested a Shelby 427 S/C from 0-100-0 in 1994: it took 17.1 seconds. Contrast this with the 0-100-0 results they got for the Mercedes SL55 and E55--both of which aren't as fast as the cars I listed previously:

Mercedes E55: 15.0
Mercedes SL55: 15.1

i.e., the slower of the two beat the Cobra by two full seconds. When you consider that both of these cars weigh nearly double what a 427 S/C came in at, this is an incredible feat. Read about it here:

Hardly. Look back on the instrumented road tests from Road & Track, Car & Driver, and others from that day:

1970 454 Corvette: 0-60 in 7.0 seconds, 1/4 mile in 15.0 at 93 mph
Hell, a modern-day BMW 330i will kick the crap out of that, and it's a 3.0 liter 6 cylinder, and their mid-level three-series at that.

1965 425 horsepower 396 Corvette: 0-60 in 5.7 seconds, 1/4 mile in 14.1 seconds at 103.

Any of the current (and past) AMG cars would thrash this; in fact, the NON-AMG Benzes are in this ballpark now. Again, this is what a BMW 330i will run, with a puny little 3.0 liter V6--less than half the size of the 7 liter 454 in that 'vette.

Myths aside, there were few of these cars that dipped into the 13's; today, Mercedes has multiple models which bone stock will run a 12.0, and as shown above, will out-accelerate and out-brake the Shelby Cobra (which btw is one of my all-time favorite cars). And NOT give you a "teeth chattering, bone jarring" ride.

And what exactly was so marvelous from an engineering standpoint about any of the cars you list? They were nothing more than entry-level American cars with huge engines stuffed under the hood. Their horsepower ratings were in the GROSSly inaccurate GROSS figures, and today the best of them in terms of specific output per cubic inch, the 1970 LT1, is matched on a power-per-cubic-inch by entry level Japanese cars.

They had drum brakes, which suffered from horrible fade and were worthless when moist. They would go fast, but stopped horribly. They had live axles, and riding in them was like riding in a big oil drum. Their interiors were pure crap, no luxury whatsoever.

The new Mercedes (and pretty much any other hipo car out there these days) are simply light-years ahead in comfort, safety, braking, luxury, quietness, and oh, yes, acceleration.

The tri-power vettes were not "600 horses", or anything close to that. They were rated at about 435 horsepower gross, or about 335 SAE net...out of 427 cubic inches, abysmal by today's figures....the new Z06 will have 500 *net* horsepower out of 427 cubic inches (closer to the 600 gross you're claiming for the tri-power), and that's using no-lead fuel...lead, as you recall, allowed Detroit to run high-compression motors, but the switch to unleaded effectively killed the horsepower war, until engineers finally figured out ways to get around it years later.

Yes, if we disable the traction control.

For what? For allowing the quality of the products they make to descend to such crappy levels that millions of buyers (like me) deserted them in the crapola '80's and never went back? For abandoning RWD cars and going to ****ty-handling FWD cars? For producing cars with nonuniform gaps, horrible orange peel, wind noise, leaks, rattles, and so on? The roadmap is there, but they refuse to follow it. It's sad, but until/unless they start building better cars, we're outta there.

Have you priced a Ferrari Daytona Spyder lately? Or a 1955 SL300 Mercedes? How about an original Porsche? There are plenty of European cars which are collectable these days as well.

I have, and so I do.

So what's your point, that the US makes better cars than the British? Won't argue with you there, but Mercedes is a German brand--who FYI bought Chrysler, not the other way around.

I have, and there's simply no comparison to a modern day muscle car.

FThornton666

Ive driven, a 89 mustang, a SRT4, a Taurus, a Jeep, a Malibu, a Saturn, and a few others so i think i can say damn well what i please about these american cars. Ive ridden in caddys, vettes, pontiacs, you name an american car and ive probably ridden in it. I think its sad when now even the american magazines are starting to bash the corvette, for its interior. They are asking how long can the corvette sell alone by its low price, and not pay any attention to the interior. For gods sake the steering wheel looks like it comes from the malibu.

adx

Maybe the thought process of selling it so inexpensively was to allow the buyers to have some extra bucks so they can fix up the interior???

AMG///Merc

I just wanted to add, with all due respect to Nasdaqsam**, is that up until very recently, Mercedes Benz had never attempted to match the Shelby Cobras acceleration. It just wasn't their market. I'm quite sure that if they had intended to, they could have done so many years ago...

Secondly, in addition to allot of the current Mercedes Benz cars making more power than the 60's muscle cars, they are doing so with much more restrictive emissions requirements. Look at what happened in the mid-70's when the domestic manufacturers had to meet EPA standards that still wouldn't come even close to passing today. The 1976 Corvette had what, 165hp?

Imagine what kind of power outputs todays manufacturers could produce if they didn't have emissions requirements?!?


Best regards,
Matt


** Kudos and respect to you for voicing your opinion in a polite and friendly manner!

nasdaqsam

I guess my meaning got lost in the translation. I fully respect and appreciate what Mercedes has accomplished (I've stated that several times now). I just bought one for what it's worth. My comments where not intended to bash another vehicle or compare stats it was to explain that there is more to a vehicle than just the numbers. Just like the prettiest girl at the party she may look good on your arm but she may not be a keeper. If you know what I mean.

The point I was trying to make is that even though MB (and the rest) stats are more impressive they still do not draw the following of the American muscle car. Example: How long do you think the average length of ownership of a current model Mercedes performance car is? I would venture to guess in most cases (not all) that it is slightly longer than the last payment. A Corvette owner would give up there first born before getting rid of their car. I would further venture to say that in most cases when someone buys one of the AMG (sweet cars by the way) models it is only a short while before their discontent begins because there is a newer faster one right around the corner and they can not wait to get it. Not so with most American muscle cars. It is a love afare that lasts until you have no other choice.

Little story: My neighbor has an original Hemi Cuda. On a warm spring morning he will take her out as soon as the sun is up, take hours washing and polishing her, crank up that Hemi, the beach boys and just cruise the town. I guarantee no matter what kind of car he parks next to, their is nobody that can walk buy with out noticing or commenting on his Hemi. To many a Mercedes with an AMG emblem on the side of it means little or nothing. I have to admit until I bought my E320 and found this forum I had no idea what AMG even stood for. To me it was just another Mercedes with a nice set of rims.

It's like trying to explain the Harley Davidson following, you just can not. The bikes are loud, obnoxious, ride like crap, they eat gas like no tomorrow, there not the fastest, but you will get a Harley owners bike from them when you pry it from their cold dead hands.

Stats gentlemen do not always tell the whole story.

As for the 600 Horse Corvette I refered to in my original post. I should have been more clear. That was my Corvette and it was not stock. It was a basterised '68 with the nose from one car, the tail from another, the engine came out of an original tri-power car that had been totaled. The engine was balanced and blue printed with all the toys. The car had power nothing. It would shake so bad it would spill water from a bottle with the cap on. But I loved it, she was by far the worst looking worst running vehicle I owned and only sold it because I had 6 at the time and no place to store all of them. I live in the northeast and outside storage is out of the question.

I did not mean nor intend to start a stats war I mearly wanted to point out that there is more to a car than the numbers. What America builds has had a following matched by none. A little respect was all I was looking for. If all a car is can only be boiled down to just numbers than whats the point?

Take Care

Jack Mitchell

That was a very cool response.

Regards, Jack

tuscanraider

The "MB-blind" from this forum cannot, or refuse to grasp this.

James L.

Nasdaqsam, you certainly express and explain your opinions/answers very politely. That is the kind of attitude we need in this forum. Hard to have some decent dicussions nowadays.

Improvitz, hats off to you for your stats man. What exactly are you and how old are you anyway? You really seems to be some kind of automobile prosecutor or are you some motor supergeek? You seems to know every single stats down to the very tiny little details...

It is freakish and yet amazing the way you quote things from publications from time to time without much error.. An avg 16 yr old will definately not be able to do this.. lol! Mercedes should pay you to do this man!

Long live improvitz! lol (I enjoy reading you threads man)

Improviz

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. You want to debate using supposition?? Get real. If you can come back with something substantive to support this claim, please do, but this is nothing more than conjecture.

Again, supposition and conjecture. I and I suspect many others on this forum have owned a Corvette, a 1979 L82, and it was a piece of junk, the least mechanically reliable car I've ever owned. It was great for meeting girls, but it was noisy, and rode like an old truck--in fact, my 4WD truck rode *better*.

Oh, come on, this is again ridiculous, and is again conjecture, claiming to know how we AMG owners feel in our hearts. Might we possibly be allowed to speak for ourselves, or do you know better than we how we feel about our cars? Look at some of the older-series Mercedes forums on this board, you'll see plenty of "love affairs", and yes, they actually wash and wax their cars and enjoy driving them.

Corvettes have been getting incremental horsepower increases for the last fifteen years, so this argument would be equally applicable here. The C6 has 400 horsepower and a 6.0L motor to the C5's 350/5.5L, and is substantially faster and better-handling than the C5, just as the C5 was better than the C4, which was better than...and so on. ALL cars have gotten faster and better overall performance over the years, including pickup trucks.

Could you buy pickup trucks with over 300 horsepower ten years ago? No. Could you buy any sedans with 250 horsepower ten years ago? No more than a handful. Now, it is routine: Nissan Maximas have 265--40 more than the 1979 Corvette I used to have, with two cylinders and two litres less displacement! Conversely, go back ten years: the 1995 Maxima had 190 horsepower, and the Corvette had 300. So, again, your argument is as applicable to entry-level Japanese sedans, as it is applicable to Corvettes, as it is applicable to AMGs.

I mean, I really love those old muscle cars, but two things are true: 1) in those days, American manufacturers built better cars; 2) those days are gone. I mean, look at the new Pontiac GTO: it looks like a Cavalier!! This was an idiotic undertaking, and whoever thought that was a good idea should be reassigned to the mail room in Alaska in perpetuity. The new Mustang looks nice, but for god's sake, this is 2005, and it still has a solid rear axle!!

So, yes, when one company builds a "GTO" that looks like a Cavalier, and the other puts a solid rear axle on their flagship sports coupe to save a few hundred dollars a car, we shake our heads. The European manufacturers aren't immune to silly bean counters, but they seem to be more protected from them.

Otoh, I'm enheartened by the new RWD Chrysler cars (The 425 horsepower 300 SRT-8 is quite impressive), and genuinely hope that American cars will be better designed and built in the future. I'm not anti-American cars, I'm pro-quality, handling, luxury, and design.