Cannoli

About a week ago, I was at a stop light and a M3 pulls up. Not the latest model but the one just before. Young kid ~ 20's. He had the DTM modified exhaust. Over all, nice looks.

Clear day with temps in the 60's and no traffic. Between lights there is about one mile of straight road with no side streets - nice road to give some schooling.

School is in session ... (most people don't know about the Velvet Hammer - MB Corporate's response to the AMG Hammer of the late 80's and early 90's. Well this is a 1992 500E W124 chassis all tricked out by Porsche. The only contribution MB did was paint and do final QA on the car. Specs: 322 HP and 354 ft-lbs ... the Sleeper with with 32 valve M119 engine shoe-horned into the chassis.)

The M3 starts to rev his engine at the light. I figure why not. As the light turns green the M3 starts off quickly ~ 1/2 car length on the Velvet Hammer. As I approach the end on first gear ~ 25 mph, we are dead even ... up shift to second and I begin THE PULL. I shut it down ~ 80 mph with a 2 car advantage. We met at the next light and the M3 driver had this astonished look on his face! WTF? How could an old W124 take him? I first told him it was a simple old 2.6 liter I6 under the hood ... but at the end I came clean - with a big grin on my face.

So, if you guys ever see an 'old W124' with flared fenders, watch out!

Lesson over.

t-bone

Very nice...

And thank you for the history lesson about the connection between my car and yours during the Meguiar's NXT event.

Cannoli

The pleasure is mine ... nice to meet you as well. I am very impressed with your ride; I'd love to get a ride it in some day.

For those who don't know about Mercedes Supersedan pedigree ...



Old school models ...

300SEL 6.3 (W109)
450SEL 6.9 (W116)
500E / E500 (W124)

... AMG models

E55 (W210)
C32 (W203)
E55 (W211)
S55 (W220)

... to be continued

vraa

Excuse me while i wipe my drool.

Accomplice8

How does the performance of the 'Velvet Hammer' compare to the C32?

EuroCoupe

No worries, your C32 is a full second faster in the 1/4 mile and 0-60 than the "velvet hammer." For its time though it was nearly un-challenged and is still a great car. Less than 1500 sent stateside so it will be much more rare than the new AMG's.

Stiggs

Any pics of the "velvet hammer"?
I like the way that sounds....velvet hammer....nice!

EuroCoupe

Its a 500E, I'm sure you've seen them. Same as a 300E but with flared fenders and a nicer interior. The fenders and 8-hole wheels are the only significant exterior changes, kind of a wolf in sheep's clothing. Check out 500ecstacy.com for the owner's forum.

Improviz

Cannoli

www.500Ecstasy.com is down for maintenance ... try later.

In the mean time, here are pics of my 500E ... Velvet Hammer and check out the following links as well:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/500e.htm
http://www.need2speed.web.com/
http://www.briandrought.com/500e/default.asp
http://members.lycos.nl/Mercedes500E/
http://mercedes500e.netfirms.com/main.htm

The cars where hand built by Porsche ... they are built like a tank. Build quality is phenomenal too.

As far as the comparison to the C32 ...

C32 - 349 hp, 332 ft-lbs, 0-60 5.4 secs, 3540 pounds, $51,400 (2004 $$)

500E (W124) - 322 hp, 354 ft-lbs, 0-60 6.0 secs, 3855 pounds, $80,000 (1992 $$)

HeadTurning400E

Your car is beautiful. So it's a non AMG 500E built by Porsche?
Does it have the same gear specs and whatnot?
Sorry but this has really grabbed my interest.

Cannoli

Thanks for the compliments ... it's my daily driver which allows me to smile every day. We 500E owners call it permagrin.

This model was built as a corporate response to the AMG Hammer cars ... MB couldn't let that little company down the road have all the fun now, could they?

After the Porsche 959 supercar completed it's manufacturing run, the MB 500E and the Audi RS2 was built at Porsche ... Porsche had the extra capacity (engineers and manufacturing) and needed the money. Win-Win for all. I'm one of the lucky few to have benifited from their relationship.

BTW, nothing, and I repeat nothing, of AMG will touch this car ... it's just not right! It's like putting Blue Oval brakes on a Bowtie car. It's WTF! Don't get me wrong, I do respect what AMG has done - in the past and the present.

Improviz

They typically test at around 5.0 0-60. Here's Road & Track's test of one in a comparo w/ Audi S4 and BMW M3:

Road & Track's article

Road & Track's test results pdf file:

Anyway, sweet car...I've always loved the flared look of those babies!

aintME

you failed to mention the w201 190E 2.3-16 and the w202 c36/c43! anyway, good kill!

Cannoli

You guys might flame me, but the 16 Valve and C36/C43 don't have the pedigree as MB Supersedans.

The 16 Valve is one of my all time favorite MB models (the EVO I and II - Factory Racers) ... as I was graduating college, I kept drooling over the car ... you know, 'oh yes, it will be mine'. Well, six years later I bought my first MB - a 1990 190E 2.6 (I still have it). The suspension on the W201 is fabulous - most current MB models save the ABC based suspensions and the W211, are derived from the little car that could. IMHO, the BEST looking sedan MB has made to date.

Now the C36 has a spot in my heart - AMG's first attempt as an MB subsiderary. A truely tuned car.

On the other hand (and again I'm probably going to get flamed on this) the C43 is basically just a 4.3 liter in the W202 chassis - not tuned like the C36. Yes, it has good numbers, but other than the V8, what does it really have? Big HP and Torque is not that difficult to come by these days - it's not.

And as far as the C32 numbers, I got them from Edmunds.com ... 0-60 at 5.4 secs. Heck, some magazines have the 500E doing 5.8 secs. These numbers are so subjective.

aintME

no flames here! i tend to agree with you in regards to the C36/C43. however, inline with your reasoning, shouldn't the C32 be excluded as well? more/less a 3.2L with an SC bolted on?

Cannoli

Yes, you do have a point regarding the C32 ... okay, I'm biased. I was in the market for a C32 prior to picking up the 500E. It is amazing how much HP/Torque that little V6 churns out. And for that matter, the W211 E55 as well. But then again, HP/Torque is not everything.

At the end of the day, we are all fortunate that we drive (own) MBs.

Improviz

I remember that Edmunds' test...here it is:Edmunds' test

But they were pretty clear that they felt the car was capable of hitting its rated 0-60 time, & that they felt the time they obtained was due to poor traction. Outside of this one, pretty much every other test I've seen has had them in the 4.9-5.1 range. Road and Track has tested the C32 twice, and both hit 0-60 in 5.1...the one in the post above was the second; here is the first:

Road & Track's first C32 test:

Data sheet from test

...Motorweek also ran a 5.1: Motorweek's test:

...and Motor Trend got 4.77 in this recent comparison with Audi's S4:.

Not trying to split hairs, just a stickler for details!

Speaking of magazine tests, you mentioned some for the 500E...do you know of anywhere where there are some scanned tests available for them?? I'd love to see those...kind of a hobby of mine if you hadn't guessed!!

e60benz

Mine's not Porsche built, but it is also a real sleeper...

http://home.comcast.net/~e60benz/wsb...ome.html-.html

Renn 208

And while we're on the subject of classic super sedans, I'd exclude the M114 210 E55 in favor of the M119 210 E50, or E63. Now those were monsters in the Hammer vein.

aintME

true. the 55 motor has been used pretty much across the line of AMGs, whereas the e50/e63 are pretty unique. which is why it was hard for me to let go of the c36. they didn't use that engine in any other car stateside. IMHO, they all should be added to the list. 190E 2.3-16, C36, C43, E50, E63. time to make an addendum. :p



Amen to that

Chappy

I won't flame you... but I will correct you.

The C43 was tuned by AMG to turn out 302 hp (up from 275 in the E430) and Mercedes-Benz only sold 579 for the 1998 model year and 546 for 1999....it also had an modified transmission, and AMG-spec brakes and rotors.

True, more than the 374 1994 E500s MB sold in the U.S. For 1992 and 1993, 633 and 498 respectively. Keep in mind, Mercedes-Benz made over 10,000 of the W124.036 500E/E500 in cooperation with Porsche (mostly for the European market) and many of the parts on the 500E came from other MB models.....the 500SL or 500SEL and/or sourced from the 600 SL....specifically most of the running gear.

I always appreciate seeing an unmolested example of the 500E.

You have a passion for fine MBs. Great! We share that passion too

Maybe I'm disappointed that Mercedes never made what would have been the *ultimate W124*....the 500CE!

Teck

My heart was bleeding until I've read this, thank you Chappy

good kill!

The Godfather

Norman picking on little cars again

Cannoli

Doc, size (expect for displacement baby - I lust for the 6.5L!) does not matter ... I'm just an aggressive extroverted Sicilian who likes to run! I just like to RUN!

Muu HAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAA


ps ... "don't make me come up there!" ...
:v