Long Duck Dong

I am in the process of purchasing either a used ML320 or used ML430. Without a doubt I like the looks of the ML430 better, but here is what I am needing to know. I drive about 40K miles a yr, so I am more concerned with gas mileage rather than power. I drove both and am satisfied enough with the 320's power. I am looking a 98/99 320's or a 99 430. Anything I should be looking for? Were these things prone to any specific problems? Any advice or tips on what I should avoid would be greatly appreciated.

I figured I would get a 320, paint the bumpers to match and try to find some ML430 factory 17's

Thanks

Long Duck Dong

By the way, what are the differences between a 320 & a 430? From what I could tell it ws only the motor and the wheels.....Anything else?

GDawgC220

Pretty much the difference is 17", color coded bumpers and mirrors to match the rest of body, 268hp. that's all about i can think of. And yes, the gas mileage on the 430 is not that great...if you drive it a lot during the week. My record for refueling the 430 is three times in one week.

Goodluck on your purchase and decision.

Chip

If you don't need the horsepower then the 320 is the way to go. You will like the 17's a lot better than the 16's. The later the year model the better the reliablity. If I recall the milage was about 22-23 on my old 98 (highway)

Long Duck Dong

I found a pretty clean 98' 320 with 50K miles for $17,500. Where there a lot of reliability issues on 320 in 98? The main reason I am gonna go with a MB is because I don't want to have to worry about reliabilty, plus if MB is anything like BMW, I am sure service work is expensive.

jswedberg

The brakes are also larger on the 430. And before model year 2002, the final drive ratio was different (lower on the 430)

amb9800

Well the '98 ML (being the first model year of the first MB made in the US in a while) did have some issues - a lot of people had reliability issues in the '98 and '99 model years, but a lot of people didn't. I'd suggest that if possible, try to look for as late a model year as possible. Some changes were made in the 2000 model year (mostly internal components, plus new colors, and ML320 gets painted bumpers standard, and MCS (audio/nav screen unit) made standard on all MLs) and overall less people had issues than with the '98/'99. In '01, further changes were made, and quality in some respects was improved.

In the 2002 model year, the ML was facelifted, with over 1200 new components - the exterior was modified (projector lamps, new bumpers and lights, etc.) and the interior was improved (revised center console, separate heat/AC unit for the rear passengers, etc.) plus a lot of internal components were swapped out. Additionally, the ML430 was replaced by the ML500. (the 4.3L V8 was swapped for the 5.0L V8)

In 2003, an 'Inspiration Edition' option package was added, which just added the ML55's (silver and chrome-striped) grille, the ML55's AMG sport seats, different wheels, etc. Additionally, a DVD navigation module was made that replaced the prior CD-based one. In the middle of 2003, Mercedes bored the ML320's 3.2L V6 engine out to 3.7 liters and called the ML with the revised engine the "ML350."

A quick scan on AutoTrader shows some '00 ML320s going for about $20k - so I'd suggest that you first try to find as late a model year ML as possible, then if nothing is possible, then go for a '98 or '99.

As far as the 320 vs. the 430, the main difference is that the 320 has the 3.2L V6 engine while the 430 has the 4.3L V8 engine. So you get more horsepower and torque out of the 430, but it also guzzles gas faster. The other difference was that the 430 came standard with some option packages that were optional on the 320. For just one example of this, the M1 package (leather (power) seats, power accessories, etc.) was standard on the 430 while you could work out a 320 without M1. Additionally, in the '98 and '99 model years, when the ML320 came stock with unpainted bumpers and body trim, the 430 was fully painted. In model years '98 to '01, when the ML320 had 16" 5-spoke wheels, the 430 came with 17" 7-spoke wheels.

Hope this helps

pks485

I was looking around for a new ML350, however I was surprised by the gas mileage of 15-18 mpg. That's whats making me think about this purchase twice. Maybe, I should just wait for the model year to come out. Then again, there are many incentives going around lately for a new M Class.

timdf

Even the later year models have problems. If you really want low maintenance and high reliability SUV / SAV I'd suggest a Lexus / Toyata model over an ML anytime. Of course the ML is more able off road and some would say much safer - assuming it doesn't break down in a dangerous location.

Check out this site for the 'dark side' of the ML.

MB Car survey

BTW My ML430 '00 with 49,800 miles is nearly out of warranty and I doubt I'd get much more than $22,000 for it trade-in or $24,000 private.

It's un-marked and has had all the ML upgrades to cover practically all of the known ML bugs - Let me know if you're interested, I'm in San Diego.

amb9800

Well you've been linking that site forever - it's a tiny site (compared to the mainstream auto sites) that covers mostly the older models years and only has a few reviews. 50 reviews do not and cannot represent the hundreds of thousands of ML owners around the world IMO.

Anyway, what I can say is yes, some people did get problem cars in the early and middle model years, but can you say that there is a single mass-producing brand in the world that does not? The new Lexus and Toyota models are far from problem-free. Yes, some of the older models were very good in this respect (and I see this first-hand - see my sig), but so were older MBs.

Would you rather have an engine failure from improper design (Toyota's infamous engine sludge issues) or have to go to the dealer to replace some minor components?

If you look at an '02 or '03 ML and compare it with a '98 model, needless to say, there is a huge difference - but that doesn't mean a '98 is a terrible car by any means. The new models are pretty reliable - no major issues as such, and even if you look at the '00 model year, only some people had issues. By far the vast majority of ML owners did not.

When looking at a forum like this or any sort of public area where people post opinions, take everything with a grain of salt (both sides). One fact you'll encounter is that those people who have had issues with their cars will take every opportunity to denounce the car, while those who have had a good experience many times feel no need to spend energy talking about it.

BTW, W164 (next-gen ML) should be coming in the '05 model year, meaning sale of the car begins either in late '04 or early '05 (MB has started to release new models at the latter time period nowadays). See here for more info:

https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...threadid=48726

Radomir

Considering your driving needs -- I'd stay away from the ML completely...

Long Duck Dong

Geez.....Half of you are scaring me away from the ML now! I read that MB Car Review site, I am sure every model of car out will have those same horror stories. however I certainly wouldn't want to pay a $9000 bill for a tranny replacement. I was thinking of getting a Ford Explorer or maybe a Toyota Forerunner, but it seems like those cars die at about 100K miles, I plan on running my next vehicle for about 200K miles. I currently have an 02' VW Jetta that I was planning on running into the ground, but it has given me tons of problems, nothing major, just the kinds of little things that annoy you and you have to take it into the service department for the day.

Thanks for all the input though, we will see what happens.

GDawgC220

I guess to spin this in a positive direction for ya, my parents '99 ML430 has been pretty much problem free, mechanical wise. Yes, the interior is kinda cheap with all it's plastics on the console area. The only problems we had were minor annoying ones, like rattling rear quarter (common problem according to MB), cup holder hinge loose, ashtray panel loose. I think that's about it. Other stuff was just regular maintance that seemed to wear out quicker than other cars we've owned in the past.

For example, front ball joints are starting to wear out at 50k miles, the pads and rotors seem to wear out like at 20k miles. other than that, just scheduled service according to the "Flexible Service System" computer onboard.

Nothing is perfect, but the ML does have it's share of problems as you have read. Some are minor annoyances (sp?), others may have some mechanical problems, no batch is flawless.

Just wanted to let u know on our ML, been pretty much fine since we've bought it. Good luck!

timdf

With regard to the car survey link which I refer to, I only link to that particular site because it's an easy one to find. There are lots more like it, just type Mercedes ML lemon into any search engine then try doing the same for lexus / toyota for the equivalent models. It's an interesting exercise, I'm sure you'll agree. I'll let you discover the results for yourself..
Likewise I agree that there's not a single manufacturer which doesn't turn out the odd lemon or three, but what peeves me is the fact the MB continues to have the same trivial problems over and over again with minor components.
Plus the well documented 'couldn't care less' attitude of MB USA.
Personally I'd much prefer to have one big problem (like I had on my '99 Boxster, when the engine blew) rather than a continual drip drip of silly little problems which none the less merit a visit to the shop. The cumulative down time of my ML is well over 3 weeks for all sorts of stuff.
Doubtless there are many thousands of satisfied ML owners, but I often wonder how many of them can honestly and truly say they've not suffered from one or more of the ML's well known defects / design compromises ?
Maybe they haven't noticed some of the more subtle problems yet.

As for buying another MB, I'd have to think long and hard - but the bottom line is there'd still be the MB USA factor to contend with. Hence MB has likely lost a customer who routinely spends over a $100k on car 'toys' every couple of years until such time as they improve their product quality and customer care. They should take a page or two out of Porsche handbook, at least according to the latest customer satisfaction surveys.

Stiggs

Duck Dong.......
Just to give you my side...I was looking at the 320 vs. 430
what really helped my decision was the test drive. Drive them both...thats all I can say. You will know the second you finish the drive.
I liked the 430's looks so much better than the unpainted bumpers of the 320.
Also the ML is unstoppable in bad weather. I don't know if you have to worry about snow, but this truck is a beast!!
I'm happy with the ML430 so far.
Only thing I didn't like was the radio...but $2K fixed that!!

Good luck