Mercedes ML450 Hybrid 4Matic Goes to the US
11-17-2009, 03:04 AM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Mercedes ML450 Hybrid 4Matic Goes to the US
The American arm of Mercedes-Benz has just debuted the first European full hybrid vehicle in the United States. The Mercedes-Benz ML450 Hybrid 4Matic joins the S400 Hybrid and the BlueTEC diesel models in the American lineup and will be offered as part of a special lease only option (no purchase) for a monthly lease price of $659 per month for 36 months and $549 per month for 60 months.
The car is fitted with ESP, ABS and BAS, as well as 4MATIC all-wheel drive, and it can be easily recognized thanks to the modified hood, the BlueEFFICIENCY logo on the fender and by the HYBRID badge on its tailgate.
The ML450 Hybrid 4Matic is equipped with a 275 horsepower 3.5-liter V6 gasoline engine, optimized via the Atkinson cycle, two magneto-electric motors that work together to provide 21 mpg in town and 24 mpg on the highway. Working with both electric motors when full power is needed, the ML450 HYBRID has a total system performance of 335 hp and 381 lb.-ft. of torque.
During parking and low-speed operation, the ML450 HYBRID runs on the electric drive only. The ML450 HYBRID can drive solely on electric power up to a maximum speed of 34 mph. The hybrid system includes a convenient start-stop function that turns off the gasoline engine and restarts it during acceleration.
During braking and coasting, the electric motor acts as a generator, slowing the SUV and recovering kinetic energy. Under heavy braking, the vehicle's conventional brakes are also used. Recovered energy is stored in the battery and re-used whenever the SUV runs only on the electric motors.
The car is fitted with ESP, ABS and BAS, as well as 4MATIC all-wheel drive, and it can be easily recognized thanks to the modified hood, the BlueEFFICIENCY logo on the fender and by the HYBRID badge on its tailgate.
The ML450 Hybrid 4Matic is equipped with a 275 horsepower 3.5-liter V6 gasoline engine, optimized via the Atkinson cycle, two magneto-electric motors that work together to provide 21 mpg in town and 24 mpg on the highway. Working with both electric motors when full power is needed, the ML450 HYBRID has a total system performance of 335 hp and 381 lb.-ft. of torque.
During parking and low-speed operation, the ML450 HYBRID runs on the electric drive only. The ML450 HYBRID can drive solely on electric power up to a maximum speed of 34 mph. The hybrid system includes a convenient start-stop function that turns off the gasoline engine and restarts it during acceleration.
During braking and coasting, the electric motor acts as a generator, slowing the SUV and recovering kinetic energy. Under heavy braking, the vehicle's conventional brakes are also used. Recovered energy is stored in the battery and re-used whenever the SUV runs only on the electric motors.
11-17-2009, 12:01 PM
#3
So same highway MPG as the Bluetec, but three more in the city. And I assume quicker acceleration, especially on the highway.
What can you lease a comparably equipped Bluetec for?
What can you lease a comparably equipped Bluetec for?
11-21-2009, 09:13 PM
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Philadelphia area
Posts: 4,260
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Lease only?? Looks like they are looking for "test pilots" and do not want the liability of an outright sale. One issue I noted in the preliminary literature is that there is no spare and the tires are not runflats.
11-23-2009, 03:09 AM
#5
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1,828
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
2008 R350 & 2008 C300
As for the "test pilots" part, I think your on to something there. Although the S400 Hybrid is offered for sale, but the question is why go with a 450 in the ML and not the same engine setup thats in the S400? Maybe for towing reasons?
Last edited by chilledbenz; 11-23-2009 at 03:12 AM.
11-23-2009, 11:00 AM
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Philadelphia area
Posts: 4,260
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Could be they just left out the run flats part, because the BlueTec version is the same way, no spare, but the tires are indeed run flat if you look at the tire itself, don't think there is any mention of it in the brochure though.
As for the "test pilots" part, I think your on to something there. Although the S400 Hybrid is offered for sale, but the question is why go with a 450 in the ML and not the same engine setup thats in the S400? Maybe for towing reasons?
As for the "test pilots" part, I think your on to something there. Although the S400 Hybrid is offered for sale, but the question is why go with a 450 in the ML and not the same engine setup thats in the S400? Maybe for towing reasons?
11-23-2009, 03:06 PM
#7
Member
My dealer told me that replacement battery cost is about $30,000. Probably not a good vehicle to have out of warranty, once they start actually selling them, versus the current lease-only availability.
Trending Topics
11-23-2009, 04:50 PM
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Philadelphia area
Posts: 4,260
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Wow, thats a big expense and one that will create buyer resistance to the product. I assume original battery life will be about 5 to 6 years. Replacement cost is more that the vehicle is likely to be worth at that time. Makes no financial sense at that number. Has anyone else confirmed this. The tire situation is enough to keep me away from it and now this?? I am not "green" at all. Had slightly considered this but went in the complete opposite direction with a new ML550. My consideration was based upon the interesting technology only.An acquaintance had a Toyota hybred with a failed battery out of warranty and it cost him 7 grand. I thought that was terrible. Needless to say he dumped the car and bought a E Class W211 left over.
11-24-2009, 01:29 AM
#10
Most likely they went with the GM-type system in this application for towing.
11-24-2009, 09:11 AM
#11
Member
11-24-2009, 10:46 AM
#12
You got me there. The parts guy wouldn't just be spinning a story. I wonder what they're thinking with that price.
Li-ion battery, as in the S400?
And if there's no price on a car, how is insurance handled?
Li-ion battery, as in the S400?
And if there's no price on a car, how is insurance handled?
11-24-2009, 09:16 PM
#13
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
2014 E63S Wagon, 2013 odyssey
Got my ML450...
Well I pick it up on Friday anyway. A couple of notes about what I've read so far in this post.
1) It does come with runflats (but you still get the jack,etc)
2) You can lease the car for 3 or 5 years and if you do lease for 5 years, MD extends the warranty to 5yrs/100,000 miles so you should never run out of the warranty. The only catch is the standard "wear and tear" items like tires.
3) They are only supposed to make 1700 or so. I've heard this number is for one year or two year totals.... could be wrong though.
4) I've also heard from the salesman that they will destroy the cars when they are turned. Something about not wanting them to get to Europe and mess with the diesel "Bread and Butter" over there. Who knows about that though., my thought is they will tear most of them down to check out how they look.
My initial thoughts are the ML450 is good solid vehicle. It was very quiet (duh) and drove smoothly so much so I didn't notice it doesn't shift (other car is a c63). Its pickup felt a little stronger then the V6 and I was surprised at how it handled/accelerated.
After I looked at it 6 people called the dealer about the car and were turned away. The car had only been on the lot a day and the PDI wasn't even complete when I drove it. If anyone has questions let me know, but please remember I only drove it for 15 minutes and will not get it until Friday. And no, I don't mind being a "test pilot".
Edward
1) It does come with runflats (but you still get the jack,etc)
2) You can lease the car for 3 or 5 years and if you do lease for 5 years, MD extends the warranty to 5yrs/100,000 miles so you should never run out of the warranty. The only catch is the standard "wear and tear" items like tires.
3) They are only supposed to make 1700 or so. I've heard this number is for one year or two year totals.... could be wrong though.
4) I've also heard from the salesman that they will destroy the cars when they are turned. Something about not wanting them to get to Europe and mess with the diesel "Bread and Butter" over there. Who knows about that though., my thought is they will tear most of them down to check out how they look.
My initial thoughts are the ML450 is good solid vehicle. It was very quiet (duh) and drove smoothly so much so I didn't notice it doesn't shift (other car is a c63). Its pickup felt a little stronger then the V6 and I was surprised at how it handled/accelerated.
After I looked at it 6 people called the dealer about the car and were turned away. The car had only been on the lot a day and the PDI wasn't even complete when I drove it. If anyone has questions let me know, but please remember I only drove it for 15 minutes and will not get it until Friday. And no, I don't mind being a "test pilot".
Edward
Last edited by afaedC63; 11-24-2009 at 09:23 PM. Reason: changed the miles from 50,000 to 100,000
11-24-2009, 11:46 PM
#14
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1,828
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
2008 R350 & 2008 C300
This will be MB's first production CVT transmission if I'm not mistaken, or at least the first available in the States. Will be interesting to see how that holds up especially in a vehicle used for towing. As for the battery situation, the prices for batteries in cars such as the Prius and Insight have dropped drastically from when they were first introduced. I think I remember reading they are still hovering around the $3k-$4k mark, but I recall something about Toyota warranting the battery for 200k miles.
11-25-2009, 09:04 AM
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Philadelphia area
Posts: 4,260
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Well I pick it up on Friday anyway. A couple of notes about what I've read so far in this post.
1) It does come with runflats (but you still get the jack,etc)
2) You can lease the car for 3 or 5 years and if you do lease for 5 years, MD extends the warranty to 5yrs/100,000 miles so you should never run out of the warranty. The only catch is the standard "wear and tear" items like tires.
3) They are only supposed to make 1700 or so. I've heard this number is for one year or two year totals.... could be wrong though.
4) I've also heard from the salesman that they will destroy the cars when they are turned. Something about not wanting them to get to Europe and mess with the diesel "Bread and Butter" over there. Who knows about that though., my thought is they will tear most of them down to check out how they look.
My initial thoughts are the ML450 is good solid vehicle. It was very quiet (duh) and drove smoothly so much so I didn't notice it doesn't shift (other car is a c63). Its pickup felt a little stronger then the V6 and I was surprised at how it handled/accelerated.
After I looked at it 6 people called the dealer about the car and were turned away. The car had only been on the lot a day and the PDI wasn't even complete when I drove it. If anyone has questions let me know, but please remember I only drove it for 15 minutes and will not get it until Friday. And no, I don't mind being a "test pilot".
Edward
1) It does come with runflats (but you still get the jack,etc)
2) You can lease the car for 3 or 5 years and if you do lease for 5 years, MD extends the warranty to 5yrs/100,000 miles so you should never run out of the warranty. The only catch is the standard "wear and tear" items like tires.
3) They are only supposed to make 1700 or so. I've heard this number is for one year or two year totals.... could be wrong though.
4) I've also heard from the salesman that they will destroy the cars when they are turned. Something about not wanting them to get to Europe and mess with the diesel "Bread and Butter" over there. Who knows about that though., my thought is they will tear most of them down to check out how they look.
My initial thoughts are the ML450 is good solid vehicle. It was very quiet (duh) and drove smoothly so much so I didn't notice it doesn't shift (other car is a c63). Its pickup felt a little stronger then the V6 and I was surprised at how it handled/accelerated.
After I looked at it 6 people called the dealer about the car and were turned away. The car had only been on the lot a day and the PDI wasn't even complete when I drove it. If anyone has questions let me know, but please remember I only drove it for 15 minutes and will not get it until Friday. And no, I don't mind being a "test pilot".
Edward
Curious, how long was your lease term?? How did you value the ML for insurance purposes?? Do you plan to tow with it and how heavy is your tow??
I do believe that they will plan to destroy the ML's upon lease end but do not buy the Euro story, As far as a tear down and inspection that may be true but most likely only a small sample will experience this. How many miles per year is your lease??
Keep us posted, this is one of the most interesting scenarios on this board!!
11-25-2009, 07:09 PM
#16
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
2014 E63S Wagon, 2013 odyssey
Good luck and enjoy it!! If it is representative of the other models of ML's you will love it. The run flats are a big issue for me as say on a weekend trip a damaged run flat cannot be repaired and must be replaced. Impossible to get one anywhere and I would not relish the idea of being stuck somewhere for a day or 2 waiting for a tire...no one stocks them. The warranty during the entire term of the lease is real protection and a great benefit.
Curious, how long was your lease term?? How did you value the ML for insurance purposes?? Do you plan to tow with it and how heavy is your tow??
I do believe that they will plan to destroy the ML's upon lease end but do not buy the Euro story, As far as a tear down and inspection that may be true but most likely only a small sample will experience this. How many miles per year is your lease??
Keep us posted, this is one of the most interesting scenarios on this board!!
Curious, how long was your lease term?? How did you value the ML for insurance purposes?? Do you plan to tow with it and how heavy is your tow??
I do believe that they will plan to destroy the ML's upon lease end but do not buy the Euro story, As far as a tear down and inspection that may be true but most likely only a small sample will experience this. How many miles per year is your lease??
Keep us posted, this is one of the most interesting scenarios on this board!!
We went for the 5 year lease since they extended the warranty and for the hope that they might change their minds and let us buy it after 5 years (if we so chose). And we went with 10K miles a year since we live about 5 miles from work. I'm going to try to get to and from work using the electric motor only (max speed limit is 45) just for fun
. I'm not sure what you mean about the insurance. But I only plan on towing my c63 or ATV and on a side note the ML450 is limited to 5,000 lbs (vs 7200).
My ML450 options:
P1 Package
Lighting Package
Parktronic
Running Boards
Heated front Seats
Wood/leather steering wheel
Tow package
3rd zone climate (special order for ML's).
I didn't order it this way thats just how it came and it appears that MB just builds them in certain configurations and ships them. The second one that my dealer is getting doesn't have the Lighting package, 3rd zone climate control or towing package. The lighting package omission is interesting to me since Xenon lights actually use less power then normal lights.
I will take pictures when I get the car, I just hope its not raining.
Edward
11-25-2009, 07:20 PM
#17
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: MA
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
1 Post
2014 E63S Wagon, 2013 odyssey
The only downside for most people will be service due to limited techs. I know at my dealer there are only two certified hybrid mechanics. Luckily one of them is a good friend of mine (the other the shop Foreman) so I know who will be working on my car. But if these techs (at any shop) get swamped it could be a longer wait.
I did learn that they actually have to put up cones and tape when they are working on the ML 450 to warn people its a hybrid. I guess so no one goes up a grabs the wrong wire
Edward
I did learn that they actually have to put up cones and tape when they are working on the ML 450 to warn people its a hybrid. I guess so no one goes up a grabs the wrong wire
Edward
11-25-2009, 07:58 PM
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Philadelphia area
Posts: 4,260
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
I agree about the run flats, but there is no room for even a donut tire due to the large battery that fills the trunk. I'll just have to cross my fingers on the tire issue.
We went for the 5 year lease since they extended the warranty and for the hope that they might change their minds and let us buy it after 5 years (if we so chose). And we went with 10K miles a year since we live about 5 miles from work. I'm going to try to get to and from work using the electric motor only (max speed limit is 45) just for fun.
I'm not sure what you mean about the insurance. But I only plan on towing my c63 or ATV and on a side note the ML450 is limited to 5,000 lbs (vs 7200).
My ML450 options:
P1 Package
Lighting Package
Parktronic
Running Boards
Heated front Seats
Wood/leather steering wheel
Tow package
3rd zone climate (special order for ML's).
I didn't order it this way thats just how it came and it appears that MB just builds them in certain configurations and ships them. The second one that my dealer is getting doesn't have the Lighting package, 3rd zone climate control or towing package. The lighting package omission is interesting to me since Xenon lights actually use less power then normal lights.
I will take pictures when I get the car, I just hope its not raining.
Edward
We went for the 5 year lease since they extended the warranty and for the hope that they might change their minds and let us buy it after 5 years (if we so chose). And we went with 10K miles a year since we live about 5 miles from work. I'm going to try to get to and from work using the electric motor only (max speed limit is 45) just for fun
. I'm not sure what you mean about the insurance. But I only plan on towing my c63 or ATV and on a side note the ML450 is limited to 5,000 lbs (vs 7200).
My ML450 options:
P1 Package
Lighting Package
Parktronic
Running Boards
Heated front Seats
Wood/leather steering wheel
Tow package
3rd zone climate (special order for ML's).
I didn't order it this way thats just how it came and it appears that MB just builds them in certain configurations and ships them. The second one that my dealer is getting doesn't have the Lighting package, 3rd zone climate control or towing package. The lighting package omission is interesting to me since Xenon lights actually use less power then normal lights.
I will take pictures when I get the car, I just hope its not raining.
Edward
11-30-2009, 10:23 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: the ML/GL/R assembly line
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2005 C230 Kompressor
I see on the average 1 an hour over in plant II come down the assembly line so figure every 30th vehicle thats built a day in plant II is a Hybrid.
12-04-2009, 07:28 AM
#20
Member
I saw one of these last night at my local dealer. The window sticker does show list prices for the vehicle and options. I can't recal exactly what the total was (it was fairly high) but it is clearly stated on the sticker that it is available "for lease only"
01-31-2010, 05:01 AM
#21
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1,828
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
2008 R350 & 2008 C300
Ran across some info on this...I think I may have figured out why its lease only...there were no percentages listed, but the main bulk of this engine design is General Motors. GM, BMW, Mercedes and Chrysler (the last two were as one at the time) will all use a version of this engine in vehicles in the near future. I think Mercedes may be a bit reluctant to sell a car with a primarily GM motor under the hood, hence the lease only set up. 
01-31-2010, 09:43 AM
#22
The engine is completely Mercedes. Only the engineering and perhaps some of the manufacturing of the hybrid componentry was a joint effort with GM and BMW. Each company is using its own gas engines.
And BMW is selling the hybrid X6.
And BMW is selling the hybrid X6.
01-31-2010, 11:59 AM
#23
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Philadelphia area
Posts: 4,260
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Ran across some info on this...I think I may have figured out why its lease only...there were no percentages listed, but the main bulk of this engine design is General Motors. GM, BMW, Mercedes and Chrysler (the last two were as one at the time) will all use a version of this engine in vehicles in the near future. I think Mercedes may be a bit reluctant to sell a car with a primarily GM motor under the hood, hence the lease only set up.
02-01-2010, 03:15 AM
#24
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1,828
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
2008 R350 & 2008 C300
No offense but I'm not buying the whole testing theory. If that were the case the S400 would be lease only as well. If Benz already had a hybrid in the works (S400) why bother sharing information with a competitor and a company not exactly known for good design? Maybe this was a deal leftover from the Chrysler days? *I do also realize that the S400 is a mild hybrid and not the same setup as the ML450.*
And by the way, I mentioned that the design was primarily GM, I didn't say GM built the engine. So its a GM designed engine, built by Mercedes Benz..catchy wonder if thats on the window sticker lol. All kidding aside, the reviews have been positive on it so far in the magazines, but the whole situation just seems a bit sketchy to me.
And by the way, I mentioned that the design was primarily GM, I didn't say GM built the engine. So its a GM designed engine, built by Mercedes Benz..catchy wonder if thats on the window sticker lol. All kidding aside, the reviews have been positive on it so far in the magazines, but the whole situation just seems a bit sketchy to me.
