Understanding Intercooling, Charge-Coolers, Heat Exchangers and Circulation Pumps
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SL65
Nick , I have my half front end of the car, I also bought a Bosch 010 pump accidentally , I want to run a second HE cooler, a few questions.
1. do you suggest I do this, will it improve cooling?
2. if I did should I run the second pump I bought? if so how far apart?
3. Should I wire them to run on always, or leave the system as it is per factory?
4. is the coolant type the same as the cars motor coolant?
sorry for so much questions. But you seem to be the man to talk to regarding the V12 cooling.
Thanks in advance
1. do you suggest I do this, will it improve cooling?
2. if I did should I run the second pump I bought? if so how far apart?
3. Should I wire them to run on always, or leave the system as it is per factory?
4. is the coolant type the same as the cars motor coolant?
sorry for so much questions. But you seem to be the man to talk to regarding the V12 cooling.
Thanks in advance
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
Are you sure? This would be very good for us CWA-100 users like myself. I still dont know if my CWA-100 runs at 100% or not. I direct wired it with an BMW connector. One person in this thread here or the other said, he removed pump cover and directly attched the wires to the pump without connectors and therefor bypass that PWM singnal stuff. 
This is all the information that I have:
http://s1.teamlearn.de/QuickPlace/b-...0waterpump.pdf
http://webpages.charter.net/n8nxf/EV...ant%20Pump.pdf
https://mbworld.org/forums/m275-v12-...ml#post6395913
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
- Yes, two intercoolers will improve cooling, but I would run them in parallel rather than series, to avoid reducing the flow through the IC's.
- Yes, running a second pump of the same type is always a good idea, as long as its installed properly, and doesn't cause airlocks.
- I wouldn't run a CWA-100 always, as it tends to froth the coolant, but the Bosch is OK. Only problem the commutator bushes wear out, so the motor doesn't last very long. The Pierburgs don't have that problem.
- Yes, the IC uses the same coolant as the engine, though I would run a lower proportion of anti-freeze.
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SL65
- Yes, two intercoolers will improve cooling, but I would run them in parallel rather than series, to avoid reducing the flow through the IC's.
- Yes, running a second pump of the same type is always a good idea, as long as its installed properly, and doesn't cause airlocks.
- I wouldn't run a CWA-100 always, as it tends to froth the coolant, but the Bosch is OK. Only problem the commutator bushes wear out, so the motor doesn't last very long. The Pierburgs don't have that problem.
- Yes, the IC uses the same coolant as the engine, though I would run a lower proportion of anti-freeze.
How do you suggest I run them in parallel , each inter cooler has its own cooler or just run both coolers of a dividing y pipe splitter ? Also about the pumps should I wire them to run continuously as the car is turned on , or leave as factory set up ? Thanks heaps again
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
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SL65
I have two pumps , plus a spare Ai condenser which I've been told is best to use as a cooler for the IC system including the stock unit, however the inlets on the condenser are tiny , would putting a y pipe connector with a reducer work ? One would think it would restrict the flow
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SL65
What about if i air die grind out the pipes from the AC line (tiny piping) to the standard 3/4 piping, would that fix the flow issue ?
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
Nick
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
CWA 50 . Circulation pump, 50W , 6000 rpm, 24 lpm @ 0.60 bar
CWA 100 Circulation pump, 100W, 7200 rpm, 30 lpm @ 0.85 bar
CWA 200 Coolant pump, 200W, 4500 rpm, 120 lpm @ 0.45 bar
CWA 400 Coolant pump, 400W, 10000 rpm, 150 lpm @ 0.80 bar
The CWA 50 is used as a charge cooler pump on the recent BMW V8TT engine, and the CWA 200 is used as the coolant pump on a wide range of recent BM's. The circulation pumps have relatively low flow and high pressure, while the coolant pumps are obviously high flow. Like all good pumps, they're specified by their flow rate under pressure, so we know what their installed performance is going to be.
The CWA 200 & 400 coolant pumps are off the chart, flowing over 100 lpm, and I didn't even try to plot them. They're huge, but you can see they meet different requirements. Where the 50 & 100 (like the Bosch pumps) fit the Charge Cooler Resistance curve pretty well, the 200 & 400 are closer to the Engine Resistance characteristic.
Nick
CWA 100 Circulation pump, 100W, 7200 rpm, 30 lpm @ 0.85 bar
CWA 200 Coolant pump, 200W, 4500 rpm, 120 lpm @ 0.45 bar
CWA 400 Coolant pump, 400W, 10000 rpm, 150 lpm @ 0.80 bar
The CWA 50 is used as a charge cooler pump on the recent BMW V8TT engine, and the CWA 200 is used as the coolant pump on a wide range of recent BM's. The circulation pumps have relatively low flow and high pressure, while the coolant pumps are obviously high flow. Like all good pumps, they're specified by their flow rate under pressure, so we know what their installed performance is going to be.
The CWA 200 & 400 coolant pumps are off the chart, flowing over 100 lpm, and I didn't even try to plot them. They're huge, but you can see they meet different requirements. Where the 50 & 100 (like the Bosch pumps) fit the Charge Cooler Resistance curve pretty well, the 200 & 400 are closer to the Engine Resistance characteristic.
Nick
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Tecomotive-ti...IAAOSw14xWLrEw
I used to think they were superseded in the BMW line-up by the VDO pump, but that's not the case. They do exist and they are commercially available. They use different electrical connectors, but I don't think that's a problem.
I'm just trying to figure out how to reliably identify one, and what the part numbers should be. You can't believe everything you read, especially from someone selling car parts. I think the best guide is that this pump was used on the BMW 4 cylinder 2 litre turbo engine, used in the 328i, 428i, 528i and similar models. I'm not 100% sure yet, but I believe the BMW part numbers are:
11517596763
11517604027
I believe this is the Pierburg part number for the CWA-400. I've seen other P/N's used, but I don't think they're right. The -66- dash number appears to be the most common, but there a dozen others.
7.03665.66.0
The CWA50 and 100 look alike. Some have quick-fit ports, and some need hose clips. You can't distinguish them by appearance.
The CWA200 has 4 bolts holding the impeller housing, and two bolts holding the electronics housings. The CWA400 doesn't.
The CWA50 & 100 use the same connector, but otherwise they all use different connectors.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; Apr 11, 2016 at 06:54 PM.
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
To complete the picture, this is the Siemens / VDO / Continental pump that's used on the 3.0 litre turbo gas engine in the recent 135i, 335i, 535i, 640i and similar.
Common BMW part numbers are:
11517563659
11517588885
11517632426
I believe two VDO part numbers are
A2C59514607
A2C53326031
Since this is used on the bigger engine, I presume this is even more powerful than the CWA-400 pump, but there's not much information about it.
http://ows-cdn.tecdoc.net/vdo/home.j...37ef248a4c0a90
It looks like the connector is the same as the CWA400, but hard to be sure.
Hopefully the control signals are the same, otherwise not much interest in the context of this thread.
I've just bought one to play with, so will find out soon.
Nick
Common BMW part numbers are:
11517563659
11517588885
11517632426
I believe two VDO part numbers are
A2C59514607
A2C53326031
Since this is used on the bigger engine, I presume this is even more powerful than the CWA-400 pump, but there's not much information about it.
http://ows-cdn.tecdoc.net/vdo/home.j...37ef248a4c0a90
It looks like the connector is the same as the CWA400, but hard to be sure.
Hopefully the control signals are the same, otherwise not much interest in the context of this thread.
I've just bought one to play with, so will find out soon.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; Apr 10, 2016 at 10:20 AM.
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
A datasheet at last - hurrah!
http://www.easycarparts.nl/Controls/...9514607_DS.PDF
Operating point 0.80 bar at 9000 litres per hour = 150 l/min
So about the same as the CWA400.
Nick
http://www.easycarparts.nl/Controls/...9514607_DS.PDF
Operating point 0.80 bar at 9000 litres per hour = 150 l/min
So about the same as the CWA400.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; Apr 10, 2016 at 10:42 AM.
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Posts: 471
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From: Germany
SL65 R230
Excellent Info.Thank you very much,especially to Nick.
Now my Pump seems to be dead, checked Fuse and it was o.k.
Want to get the CWA100 now. Is the latest info still without a control module Ground1 ,Battery4, 1.5 kOhm resistor3 and it works with (nearly) 100% power? What are the connecting parts and mounting brackets? Anywhere good prices for the pump, and is the cwa100 worth the price in daily driving over the cwa50 which is also used in many VW/Audi applications. Many thanks!
Now my Pump seems to be dead, checked Fuse and it was o.k.
Want to get the CWA100 now. Is the latest info still without a control module Ground1 ,Battery4, 1.5 kOhm resistor3 and it works with (nearly) 100% power? What are the connecting parts and mounting brackets? Anywhere good prices for the pump, and is the cwa100 worth the price in daily driving over the cwa50 which is also used in many VW/Audi applications. Many thanks!
Last edited by AMG-Driver; Apr 23, 2016 at 08:39 AM.
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Excellent Info.Thank you very much,especially to Nick.
Now my Pump seems to be dead, checked Fuse and it was o.k.
Want to get the CWA100 now. Is the latest info still without a control module Ground1 ,Battery4, 1.5 kOhm resistor3 and it works with (nearly) 100% power? What are the connecting parts and mounting brackets? Anywhere good prices for the pump, and is the cwa100 worth the price in daily driving over the cwa50 which is also used in many VW/Audi applications. Many thanks!
Now my Pump seems to be dead, checked Fuse and it was o.k.
Want to get the CWA100 now. Is the latest info still without a control module Ground1 ,Battery4, 1.5 kOhm resistor3 and it works with (nearly) 100% power? What are the connecting parts and mounting brackets? Anywhere good prices for the pump, and is the cwa100 worth the price in daily driving over the cwa50 which is also used in many VW/Audi applications. Many thanks!
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From: Tbilisi , Georgia
CL600 W216
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2 x 12V and you got your 24 V. Problem will be that the rest of your car won't work anymore bc it blows up 
but hey you got your 24V pump going 
But on a serious note: I'm sure the specs read it can operate between 12-24V and not 12 or 24 V.
but hey you got your 24V pump going But on a serious note: I'm sure the specs read it can operate between 12-24V and not 12 or 24 V.
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From: Tbilisi , Georgia
CL600 W216
has anybody here ever installed EMP pump on their mercs?
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
I believe the WP29 comes in either 12v or 24v versions; they're not multi-voltage.
Have you downloaded the manual? Lingenfelter are a lot of help with these pumps.
http://emp-corp.com/support/marketin...MarketingID=99
http://emp-corp.com/support/marketin...arketingID=107
Nick
Have you downloaded the manual? Lingenfelter are a lot of help with these pumps.
http://emp-corp.com/support/marketin...MarketingID=99
http://emp-corp.com/support/marketin...arketingID=107
Nick
Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 155
Likes: 5
From: Tbilisi , Georgia
CL600 W216
I believe the WP29 comes in either 12v or 24v versions; they're not multi-voltage.
Have you downloaded the manual? Lingenfelter are a lot of help with these pumps.
http://emp-corp.com/support/marketin...MarketingID=99
http://emp-corp.com/support/marketin...arketingID=107
Nick
Have you downloaded the manual? Lingenfelter are a lot of help with these pumps.
http://emp-corp.com/support/marketin...MarketingID=99
http://emp-corp.com/support/marketin...arketingID=107
Nick
This is what I found on CTSowners forum
Quote : Stewart EMP WP29 Water Pump
Selling a used Stewart EMP WP29 Water Pump, 24v version with 1"inlet/outlet. Used it with 12v for about a month and it works great! Need to install a G-force intake which routes exactly where this pump is mounted and can't find anywhere else to easily mount, so my loss is your gain. Looking for $310 shipped, also comes with brand new Deutch connector. These retail for almost $500
Will be taken out today so i can post pics later on.
Last edited by MB-CLS500; Apr 30, 2016 at 02:10 PM.
