Understanding Intercooling, Charge-Coolers, Heat Exchangers and Circulation Pumps
Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 155
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From: Tbilisi , Georgia
CL600 W216
Soo Thats the purpose of the question these two products look the same have same name (EMP WP29) both 24v but have different part numbers so there is must be some difference between them? may be one is better than the other?
Banned
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Don't yell! You're question fits right into the nonsense category.
If you know why different products have different serials and part numbers then what's the real question? One apparently runs with 12 the other with 24V. Not more not less without doing the homework for you. Read the manual(s) and you will find your answer. We're not here to read and comprehend it for you. That's your job.
And if you can't take a joke, too bad for you.
If you know why different products have different serials and part numbers then what's the real question? One apparently runs with 12 the other with 24V. Not more not less without doing the homework for you. Read the manual(s) and you will find your answer. We're not here to read and comprehend it for you. That's your job.
And if you can't take a joke, too bad for you.
Super Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 554
Likes: 37
2004 S600
I dunno. They both say 24V pumps. Probably different revisions of the exact same product. I have that pump in 24V...got a steal on it because everybody's after the 12V ones. Haven't gotten a power supply rigged up for it yet, but I plan on installing it eventually. Best intercooler pump money can buy in my opinion (the 24V version has a lot higher pressure capability...it's just a matter of figure out how to power it, lol.)
Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 155
Likes: 5
From: Tbilisi , Georgia
CL600 W216
Don't yell! You're question fits right into the nonsense category.
If you know why different products have different serials and part numbers then what's the real question? One apparently runs with 12 the other with 24V. Not more not less without doing the homework for you. Read the manual(s) and you will find your answer. We're not here to read and comprehend it for you. That's your job.
And if you can't take a joke, too bad for you.
If you know why different products have different serials and part numbers then what's the real question? One apparently runs with 12 the other with 24V. Not more not less without doing the homework for you. Read the manual(s) and you will find your answer. We're not here to read and comprehend it for you. That's your job.
And if you can't take a joke, too bad for you.
Second Ok I understand if they have different serial numbers its like when two CL600 2007 for example having different VIN codes .( same products different Numbers)
BUT in mechanical engineering world same parts have same part numbers and these do not have same part numbers so there is gotta be some difference between them. I read all the PDFs and documents and I am currently waiting for emp-corp.com customer account approval to get access for more pdf documents wich you can look up with part numbers . There is only install manuals online. AND PLEASE you have really bad sense of humor and I am going thew nicotine withdrawal its my second day and dont get on my nerves please have a good day .
these are like snickers and m&ms
Super Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 554
Likes: 37
2004 S600
On that note, does anybody have any cheap ideas? I have adjustable output boost converters, but one isn't going to run this pump steady-state (I think they are rated something like 268 watts continuous each) but I do have two of them laying around.
I may be better off just reselling this pump and just paying full price for a 12V one.
I may be better off just reselling this pump and just paying full price for a 12V one.
Super Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 554
Likes: 37
2004 S600
I read all the PDFs and documents and I am currently waiting for emp-corp.com customer account approval to get access for more pdf documents wich you can look up with part numbers . There is only install manuals online. AND PLEASE you have really bad sense of humor and I am going thew nicotine withdrawal its my second day and dont get on my nerves please have a good day .
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Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 155
Likes: 5
From: Tbilisi , Georgia
CL600 W216
I dunno. They both say 24V pumps. Probably different revisions of the exact same product. I have that pump in 24V...got a steal on it because everybody's after the 12V ones. Haven't gotten a power supply rigged up for it yet, but I plan on installing it eventually. Best intercooler pump money can buy in my opinion (the 24V version has a lot higher pressure capability...it's just a matter of figure out how to power it, lol.)
Quote
Stewart EMP WP29 Water Pump
Selling a used Stewart EMP WP29 Water Pump, 24v version with 1"inlet/outlet. Used it with 12v for about a month and it works great! Need to install a G-force intake which routes exactly where this pump is mounted and can't find anywhere else to easily mount, so my loss is your gain. Looking for $310 shipped, also comes with brand new Deutch connector. These retail for almost $500
Will be taken out today so i can post pics later on.
Based on what he said that 1 should think these pumps are multivoltage? I will share all the documents when I get access
Last edited by MB-CLS500; Apr 30, 2016 at 05:09 PM.
Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 155
Likes: 5
From: Tbilisi , Georgia
CL600 W216
On that note, does anybody have any cheap ideas? I have adjustable output boost converters, but one isn't going to run this pump steady-state (I think they are rated something like 268 watts continuous each) but I do have two of them laying around.
I may be better off just reselling this pump and just paying full price for a 12V one.
I may be better off just reselling this pump and just paying full price for a 12V one.
Super Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 554
Likes: 37
2004 S600
I do not think the 24V pump should be run on lower voltage. The instructions specify a minimum operating voltage of 18V and a max of 32V. I suppose you could, but I would worry about the interals of the pump. The pump performance is not that much different between the 12v pump and the 24v...it's just that the 24v maintains more flow at the 25psi point on the graph than the 12V. And that's with both of them receiving the ideal voltage (14 and 28 volts) Other than that they are pretty much the same.
So if you run the 24V pump on 12V, it's probably only seeing 1/2 or 1/4 of the wattage it would at 24V and performance is going to suffer greatly. Either that or the pump will try and draw way too much amperage and burn up the wiring internally. I'm not an expert on electric motors by any means so I can't say for sure what would happen.
So if you run the 24V pump on 12V, it's probably only seeing 1/2 or 1/4 of the wattage it would at 24V and performance is going to suffer greatly. Either that or the pump will try and draw way too much amperage and burn up the wiring internally. I'm not an expert on electric motors by any means so I can't say for sure what would happen.
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Joined: May 2015
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2004 S600
Yes, I managed to find the 24V version you linked for about $150 used so I jumped on it and figured I could figure out how to power it later. But it looks like coming up with a reliable power source could cost more than just buying the proper 12V pump.
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2004 S600
Now you've got me wondering, because I know there are lots of electronics built into this thing so I'm sure it's got protections against this sort of thing. I may run some flow tests through those spare intercoolers at 12V and 24V and see what the pump performance is like. I certainly don't want to burn the thing up, but I would like to know what happens real-world if you try and run the 24V on 12V.
Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 155
Likes: 5
From: Tbilisi , Georgia
CL600 W216
Now you've got me wondering, because I know there are lots of electronics built into this thing so I'm sure it's got protections against this sort of thing. I may run some flow tests through those spare intercoolers at 12V and 24V and see what the pump performance is like. I certainly don't want to burn the thing up, but I would like to know what happens real-world if you try and run the 24V on 12V.
Last edited by MB-CLS500; Apr 30, 2016 at 05:42 PM.
Super Member
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2004 S600
It doesn't, for example, provide you any benefits if your system capacity is say only a gallon and your heat exchanger can't actively keep up with the cooling demands. But yes, EMP does provide flow data for their pumps at various pressures. It's in the install manual.
http://www.emp-corp.com/media/Market...tionmanual.pdf
Thread Starter
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
Member
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 155
Likes: 5
From: Tbilisi , Georgia
CL600 W216
what do you guys think about this 12v to 24v converter ?
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
Water flow by itself isn't going to reduce IATs. All it does is ensure that you've got a larger mass flow of water/coolant through the intercoolers which will result in a lower average water temp throughout the intercooler IF you have enough system capacity or heat exchanger to continue to remove heat.
It doesn't, for example, provide you any benefits if your system capacity is say only a gallon and your heat exchanger can't actively keep up with the cooling demands. But yes, EMP does provide flow data for their pumps at various pressures. It's in the install manual.
http://www.emp-corp.com/media/Market...tionmanual.pdf
It doesn't, for example, provide you any benefits if your system capacity is say only a gallon and your heat exchanger can't actively keep up with the cooling demands. But yes, EMP does provide flow data for their pumps at various pressures. It's in the install manual.
http://www.emp-corp.com/media/Market...tionmanual.pdf
However, flow costs, and the power needed to increase flow goes up exponentially.
And after a while you get to the point of diminishing returns, where the coolant temp hardly changes around the circuit.
I don't think we're close to that with the stock V12 system though - I think it's marginal as it is.
Nick
Last edited by Welwynnick; Apr 30, 2016 at 06:07 PM.
Super Member
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2004 S600
It must be multivoltage I also asked EMP corp that question but im not sure lets wait emp corp to confirm and as far as I understand they are multi voltage in pdf there is 28v that runs on 14v and 28v and other one runs on 12v and 24v these are best pumps for us to use coz it says 10K+ hours of life compared to 3K hours of life to meziere that is 125 days
I do not think they would bother to make distinctly separate 12V and 24V pumps if it was truly completely flexible on voltage.
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I'm not familiar with the pump but if they offer one for 24V systems I'd say it's for trucks and boats that actually run on 24vDC.
I don't wanna belittle someone's 24v project but I would think its not worth it if you have to step up the 12v that is on board to get enough juice flowing for this pump. Most likely I'm wrong but def. interested in the outcome of the brave ones here.
I don't wanna belittle someone's 24v project but I would think its not worth it if you have to step up the 12v that is on board to get enough juice flowing for this pump. Most likely I'm wrong but def. interested in the outcome of the brave ones here.
Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Welwyn, Herts, UK
2006 S600
what do you guys think about this 12v to 24v converter ?
Amazon.com: Dc/dc Converter Regulator 12v Step up to 24v 3a 72w: Car Electronics
Amazon.com: Dc/dc Converter Regulator 12v Step up to 24v 3a 72w: Car Electronics
Nick
Super Member
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2004 S600
More flow always helps. You can never have too much.
However, flow costs, and the power needed to increase flow goes up exponentially.
And after a while you get to the point of diminishing returns.
I don't think we're close to that with the stock V12 system though - I think that's marginal as it is.
Nick
However, flow costs, and the power needed to increase flow goes up exponentially.
And after a while you get to the point of diminishing returns.
I don't think we're close to that with the stock V12 system though - I think that's marginal as it is.
Nick
But of course, who has room for or wants to carry around an extra 80 lbs of water?
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From: Germany
C215 CL55 AMG, W124 500E, W210 E430, W124 300E
In german Motor-Talk Forums, someone flow-tested the CWA-100 Pump by Pierburg. He used a real inline flow-meter with "impulses/second" and he has an E55AMG with additional HE. He measured after the HE and he found that the CWA-100 flows 30% faster than the Bosch 010 pump. He was disappointed by that result, however if you look at that tiny CWA-100 pump compared to all the others, its immpressive i personally think.
