charliev68

alright, now i have 149,000miles on my 2000 clk430.
have never changed my trans fluid and my car shifts just fine...actually it's as smooth as silk, as my friend would say("master mechanic" at irvine bmw, know him since h.s.).

just wanted to post to tell all u skeptics that benz trans fluid and trans does what it says. don't trust those backyard so-called "mb certified mechanics."

at around 90k miles i was kinda scared and was tempted to change the fluid to be safe. after reading threads here on the subject, especially what "patrick" said, i decided not to and am very happy with my desion.

it's funny...i also talked about the subject with the local dealers in my area too. the opinions are also mixed within the mb s.a.'s. the shady ones are real quick to set up an appiontment with u to get the service done(i.e. Fletcher Jones). The experienced s.a.'s, the ones who really know and don't b.s. u about obvious problems covered on this forum, say not to change the fluid.
Justifications:
1. no problems, no need to change or service.
2. 2000 and above trans. are the new type and have lifetime fluid.
3. problems relating to trans. not due to fluid. more related to electronics
and driving habits.
4. car has adapted to fluid over the years, changing the fluid and filter,
without cleaning the electronics within the trans. and resetting the whole
system...does more damage than good.

please, my thread is not for debate...just sharing my own experience.

mleskovar

I agree with your post. I'm in a similar position at 104K miles and have decided to do the same. I extracted some trans fluid at 99K and had it analyzed....more wear particles as expected and no reduction of fluid effectiveness. I added about 1/2 quart of fluid to bring it up to the fill spec but that's it. Still a very smooth and positive transmission.

paulv

I first had my ATF fluid analyzed at 54K miles because I was worried about the Valeo radiator problem leaking coolant into the ATF. The test results showed that I didn't have antifreeze contamination but did show that the insolubles were at the limit. I'm still deciding whether or not to change the ATF. I did call an indy (so I wouldn't get a biased dealer's opinion) and he told me that all of his tranny work was always about the electronics and never saw a problem that was related to bad ATF. I'll probably have another test done at 75K.

Regards,
paul...

C43AMG

Where did you get this done? I am very interested in having my done.

VIP ONE

I drive 99 e-class and it has 88,xxx miles. Do u still have to change your tranny fluid?

paulv

I use http://www.blackstone-labs.com in Fort Wayne IN. A basic analysis is $20 for used motor oil or ATF (differential fluid, etc). I've been happy with their service. I send the sample via Priority Mail (about $4 from Boston), and if you send it on a Monday, you'll have the results by Friday -- this has been my experience.

Now that my MB is out of warranty, and I change the motor oil myself, I started sending samples for analysis so I can have historical data for trend analysis (which is what used oil analysis is all about!). For $10 more, you can have your motor oil tested to see how much of the additive package is remaining -- if the value is less than 2.0, it's time to change the motor oil. I had this done once to see what Mobil 1 would be at 15K miles and it was about 2.7.

Blackstone's site has a place where you can order the sample container kits, and they're free.

You can check out my oil/ATF analyses:

Oil:


ATF:


Regards,
paul....

C43AMG

Paul , thanx for the post and the excellent information.I think the lab proves the transmission "lifetime fill" is marketing B.S.

paulv

I don't know if it really is marketing bs, but I do know that all car companies are getting pressured for emissions and gas mileage and reducing natural resources useage.

I don't want to sound cynical, but it looks like the cars of the future will keep the air clean, burn much less fuel, and have to be replaced every year because they'll fall apart!!

Anyway, I think it's up to us owners to be informed to what's going on in our engines/transmission/etc.

By the way, Blackstone's site has a link where some people did tests comparing Mobil 1 to Amsoil -- interesting reading.

Regards,
paul...

mleskovar

It only proves that that the fluid in that trans needs to be changed. After 100K miles my insolubles were only at Trace. Insolubles = oil oxidation and determine how well the lubricant is holding up. Interesting comment on my analysis from Blackstone..."The trace of water is likely from condensation and not a problem".

paulv

I was expecting my Insolubles to be at the Trace level, so that's why I'm going to do another analysis in the near future and then decide what to do about the ATF. It will be interesting to see how much the increase will be.

Regards,
paul...

C230 Sport Coup

I've been researching this a little more.
Spoke with Blackstone labs.

Re: The ATF and the dreaded Valeo issue.

MBZ uses a 5 ml sample to determine the total content of
Glycol to ATF. Do they count the water? Hmmmm...

Their results are expressed as <100mg per liter, >100mg per ltr
and >400 mg per liter.

So the actual results are a multiplier of the actual content of the sample.
It would be impossible to find 100 mg per liter in a 5 ml (mg) sample.
See what I mean?


Now, Blackstone uses Potassium as the definer of whether there is
Glycol in the ATF. And they measure in PPM.

100 ppm is the same as saying 1 part in 10000 or .0001%

Everyone with me so far?
OK.
So, MBZ's way of doing it is 100mg per liter.
That 100 parts per thousand or 10% !
Fortunately ml and mg are interchangeable in the metric system I beieve, no?

OK, NOW.....
As I said Blackstone use Potassium as the definer.
Now the question is how much potassium does Xerex G-05 or
Mercedes coolant contain? Blackstone says MOST coolants contain
potassium, but how much? They don't know if or how much
is contained in mbz coolant.
They don't actually measure glycol, only the minerals that would be contained in the glycol. And some conversion factors would need to be done to
come up with an equivalent to the MBZ test, to be comparing apples with apples.

In any case, the coolant would contain 1/2 water, and in this case the moisture content is negligible, which is good and pretty much shows, is his case there isn't a problem. .1% is the low end threshold, or
1 ml per liter. His is less than that. Good sign!

She also said they'd know right away if there was a problem since the moisture would cause the sample to crackle under heat.

Consider, that ATF with say 50mg glycol per liter.
If the coolant is a 50 50 mix, does that mean there's another 50ml of water, or is that included in the 50mg sample? This is unclear.
Either way you're looking at 5-10% in the low range, or 40% at the
point where the tranny needs to be replaced.

You'd notice a major coolant loss at point.
So, keep an eye on your coolant. Is is going lower?
The ATF and torque converter hold a total of what 8-10 liters of fluid?
Something like that.
For 50 ml per liter to be present you'd have to lose a full pint of coolant,
100 ml, a quart. 400 ml, a whole freakin gallon!

Thankfully, I'm not losing any coolant, so I'm ok for now.
Still not determined if I have the Valeo rad.
So far no sticker. Need to crawl under the car, pull the bottom pan and investigate futher. Hoping it is a Behr!

mleskovar

ml = milliliter (volume) mg = milligram (weight)

Musikmann

That is correct. So in other words, for a ml to equal a mg then 1 liter (1000 ml) of fluid would have to weigh 1 kilogram (1000 grams). Not impossible, but probably a rare ocurrance. The more common analogy in metric science is that 1 cc (cubic centimeter) = 1 ml (milliliter). I think in this case, the density of the liquid had to be pretty close to 1.0 (pure water).

loubapache

Hey, hey, hey, MM.

1 L = 1000 mL but 1 g = 1000 mg. So one liter has one gram.

He was talking about a couple hundered mg per liter. One liter has less than 1 gram because 1000 mg is only one gram.