Confirmation MB sourcing lower quality parts.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2002
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Confirmation MB sourcing lower quality parts.
I am a small repair shop and have for years repaired several Mercedes.
I have owned Mercedes exclusively since 1970.
Recently while doing an oil change on a 400E I service we discovered the oil filter installed just 6000 KM earlier, by us, had completely deteriorated.
The part was supplied to me by Mercedes and marked with the usual information, with one exception.
It was made in India NOT Austria.
The part was sent to Mercedes Canada for confirmation.
I assumed it was a counterfeit....it wasn't.
So beware of the filters you are buying at your local MB store and reject any Made in India, or any third world source, or risk major engine damage.
So much for the argument (scare tactic) by Mercedes to never buy aftermarket filters.
In this case a FRAM would have been prefered.
Maybe if you have had a similiar "rare" failure you can post details.
I wonder if the dealers are given a quality (and price) range for parts supplied to them by Mercedes.
You know..."buy the India made filter for $2 or the Austria made part for $6.....we approve both....and they retail at the same price"
I'm disgusted.
It seems that the quality short falls that started in the mid-90's continue and are part of the corporate profile for the future.
Don't be fooled....Mercedes has changed....and not for the better.
Copy of email:
Hi Brian,
I have been informed that this place of manufacturing is in fact authorized
and part of our procurement chain. It was a rare failure, but nonetheless
an authentic filter from what we can see from the remains.
I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Adam Kostanowicz
Field Development Manager
Mercedes-Benz Canada Inc.
I have owned Mercedes exclusively since 1970.
Recently while doing an oil change on a 400E I service we discovered the oil filter installed just 6000 KM earlier, by us, had completely deteriorated.
The part was supplied to me by Mercedes and marked with the usual information, with one exception.
It was made in India NOT Austria.
The part was sent to Mercedes Canada for confirmation.
I assumed it was a counterfeit....it wasn't.
So beware of the filters you are buying at your local MB store and reject any Made in India, or any third world source, or risk major engine damage.
So much for the argument (scare tactic) by Mercedes to never buy aftermarket filters.
In this case a FRAM would have been prefered.
Maybe if you have had a similiar "rare" failure you can post details.
I wonder if the dealers are given a quality (and price) range for parts supplied to them by Mercedes.
You know..."buy the India made filter for $2 or the Austria made part for $6.....we approve both....and they retail at the same price"
I'm disgusted.
It seems that the quality short falls that started in the mid-90's continue and are part of the corporate profile for the future.
Don't be fooled....Mercedes has changed....and not for the better.
Copy of email:
Hi Brian,
I have been informed that this place of manufacturing is in fact authorized
and part of our procurement chain. It was a rare failure, but nonetheless
an authentic filter from what we can see from the remains.
I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Adam Kostanowicz
Field Development Manager
Mercedes-Benz Canada Inc.
Last edited by Brian McL; Oct 7, 2009 at 12:17 PM.
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 619
Likes: 5
This is a story without a message.
But if there was a moral it would be:
" Fore warned is fore armed"
...or if you prefer...
" An informed consumer is a powerful force"
...and my favorite...
"If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and sh#ts like a duck.....it's a DUCK!"
But if there was a moral it would be:
" Fore warned is fore armed"
...or if you prefer...
" An informed consumer is a powerful force"
...and my favorite...
"If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and sh#ts like a duck.....it's a DUCK!"
Thread Starter
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 619
Likes: 5
A picture is worth a thousand words.
If this is the quality of the Mahle filters coming out of India (or China, Taiwan, or anywhere else), then I would NOT put them in my car.
They are clearly of an inferior quality and you risk serious damage to your engine.
If this is the quality of the Mahle filters coming out of India (or China, Taiwan, or anywhere else), then I would NOT put them in my car.
They are clearly of an inferior quality and you risk serious damage to your engine.
Last edited by Brian McL; Oct 8, 2009 at 01:42 PM.
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From: California
06 C55, 09 E350
Looks like a break in filter to me a simple mistake to make with potentially really bad consequences. Give the correct one a shot these filters are not meant to be used are are only good for 3k miles
The correct part# for the oil filter on this car is
119-180-00-09
The correct part# for the oil filter on this car is
119-180-00-09
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 828
Likes: 1
From: Northern VA
SL 500
I am not sure if Mahle Filters India is a direct supplier to Mercedes. I checked their corporate site, and they do make oil filter among other things, and supply plenty of auto makers, but Mercedes Benz is not one of them.
http://www.anandgroupindia.com/customers.aspx
I would be interested in hearing more on this from someone in the know.. possibly MB Techs or someone in their supply chain group.
thanks,
A
http://www.anandgroupindia.com/customers.aspx
I would be interested in hearing more on this from someone in the know.. possibly MB Techs or someone in their supply chain group.
thanks,
A
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From: NYC
2012 C300 4Matic
Because if so, then the guy who started this thread... well I'm sure you can use your imagination to come up with the words I'd like to call him. Unbelievable. This is why I trust no one to service my vehicle unless I'm watching them closely.
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2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Willing to bet had an oil filter been installed by an MB dealer it would not have happened to that one. Your "confirmation" of lower quality parts is not so. You apparently are not exposed to many MB's in your "small shop". Whay anyone would risk an expensive automobile by going to a "small shop" is beyond me. Would you have been able financially to stand behiond the vehicle if there had been serious damage....I doubt it.
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03 E500 and Corvette
Willing to bet had an oil filter been installed by an MB dealer it would not have happened to that one. Your "confirmation" of lower quality parts is not so. You apparently are not exposed to many MB's in your "small shop". Whay anyone would risk an expensive automobile by going to a "small shop" is beyond me. Would you have been able financially to stand behiond the vehicle if there had been serious damage....I doubt it.
I would consider the OEM bearing to be of lesser quality based on mfg. I have also used bearings from Sweden, Russia, and US.
Considering the poor reliability in my 2003 E series I would speculate MB has also changed and not for the better. But then that is only my opinion after 35+ years in engineering.
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2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
AT 65000 the idle pulley failed on my 2003 MB. I replaced it with new pulley. Curosity got me so I machined out the retaining ring to remove the failed bearing. After pressing it out, it clearly had "made in China" on the bearing. This was a OEM part as I bought the car new. The bearing cost at local supplier is $4.00 to me no discount. Given it is shipped from China and sold at profit for $4.00 I must assume the shipping cost and profits indicate the manufacture cost is around $2.00 as a guess. I have worked with brg companies about 35 years and yes the steel and precision is way better in some companines. Maybe this level of precision is not necessary for a idle pulley in a car, but failure of this bearing causes you to throw the belt and you stop in place.
I would consider the OEM bearing to be of lesser quality based on mfg. I have also used bearings from Sweden, Russia, and US.
Considering the poor reliability in my 2003 E series I would speculate MB has also changed and not for the better. But then that is only my opinion after 35+ years in engineering.
I would consider the OEM bearing to be of lesser quality based on mfg. I have also used bearings from Sweden, Russia, and US.
Considering the poor reliability in my 2003 E series I would speculate MB has also changed and not for the better. But then that is only my opinion after 35+ years in engineering.
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From: Louisiana
03 E500 and Corvette
My experience has been that "made in China" is sometimes bad and sometimes OK. I would assume that MB would have a spec for the part and that they had inspected the part to insure it met that spec. The only way to tell for certain why it failed is to do a complete analysis including the metal used in the bearing. This of course is expensive and time consuming. I would think that if MB had received a bunch of these bearings and this was not just a random failure that this would have been done and the problem corrected. MB also has engineers and managers that actually work in the plants of their major suppliers to confirm quality control. Meantime we are getting way off the subject of one guy who has a tiny shop in Canada, I believe who had one oil fillter failure.
I agree China is some good and bad. However apparently mine was bad. If you do a search on these for the E series you will find a high frequency of failure. Given I don't have the % out of spec information on the bearing it is difficult to compare it to SKF, Timken, Fafner. But Made in China does make it a bit difficult to track back to the source for the detail quality information.
Have a great day! and bye!
Last edited by vettdvr; Nov 5, 2009 at 12:16 PM.
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Everyone knows that the W210 E Class is the least reliable car Mercedes ever made. The 2003 E Class was the first year for the W211, a much better car, but still not quite up to par compared to Mercedes historical track record. 35+ years of engineering isn't what's necessary to realize that Mercedes was building crap at the time. From 2005 on up they brought their quality back to where it should be. This shows on the newer body styles. The guy who posted this thread had no idea what he was talking about.
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03 E500 and Corvette
Everyone knows that the W210 E Class is the least reliable car Mercedes ever made. The 2003 E Class was the first year for the W211, a much better car, but still not quite up to par compared to Mercedes historical track record. 35+ years of engineering isn't what's necessary to realize that Mercedes was building crap at the time. From 2005 on up they brought their quality back to where it should be. This shows on the newer body styles. The guy who posted this thread had no idea what he was talking about.
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Wow I didn't know the W210 E was the least reliable car, thanks for the information. I thought My W211 was the least reliable car they built. Given this information is seems they could not get the 210 or 211 right, what confidence they got the 212 right especially when using Made In China Bearings. I test drove a 212 last week. Perhaps I wont' buy MB if this is the best they build!
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2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Everyone knows that the W210 E Class is the least reliable car Mercedes ever made. The 2003 E Class was the first year for the W211, a much better car, but still not quite up to par compared to Mercedes historical track record. 35+ years of engineering isn't what's necessary to realize that Mercedes was building crap at the time. From 2005 on up they brought their quality back to where it should be. This shows on the newer body styles. The guy who posted this thread had no idea what he was talking about.
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03 E500 and Corvette
Everybody does not know that the W210 is not reliable and in fact its not true at all. The W210 (2001) E320 4M that I had was just fine. The only issue I ever had with it was the replacement of 2 CATS.The secret of owning any MB is to have the maint done by a good authorized dealer. They catch stuff that could be a problem in the future. The guys who have issues are usually the ones at a bad dealership or those who are self made shade tree mechanics and are not qualfied to perform their own maint but do it anyway. Wit regard to the W211 mine is now 5 years old and other than the Command being replaced when it was one week old it has been bulletproof with absolutely no faults or warranty claims.
Hot water valve
ignition switch
ball joints
air compressor
rear air springs
cracked wood grain dash
door locks
lighter
SBC total failure towed in
I would have to check my records for the other failures. And this doesn't include the extremely poor service I got from Tel Aid in a collision after Katrina.
Consider if I did not have a warranty what the repair cost would be. I don't mind paying for preventative maintenance. But I really object to this much breakdown maintenance. The only reason our E500 runs as well as it does is because of the dealer service and warranty. I am sure MB paid out big $$ for the warranty claims. Perhaps building in quality to prevent breakdowns would lower warranty cost and that could pass to the customer with lower purchase cost and fewer inconvient 200 mile trips to the dealer for repairs.
I am just not impressed to pay $65,000 for a car and have this level of breakdowns. I expect better for that $$. But then that is of course only MY opinion and others may have had different experience.
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From: Philadelphia area
2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Prehaps you got a good one my neighbor dumped her W210 as the worst car she ever owned. Our W211 E500 is maintained/serviced by what I would consider a #1 dealer and we have had the following:
Hot water valve
ignition switch
ball joints
air compressor
rear air springs
cracked wood grain dash
door locks
lighter
SBC total failure towed in
I would have to check my records for the other failures. And this doesn't include the extremely poor service I got from Tel Aid in a collision after Katrina.
Consider if I did not have a warranty what the repair cost would be. I don't mind paying for preventative maintenance. But I really object to this much breakdown maintenance. The only reason our E500 runs as well as it does is because of the dealer service and warranty. I am sure MB paid out big $$ for the warranty claims. Perhaps building in quality to prevent breakdowns would lower warranty cost and that could pass to the customer with lower purchase cost and fewer inconvient 200 mile trips to the dealer for repairs.
I am just not impressed to pay $65,000 for a car and have this level of breakdowns. I expect better for that $$. But then that is of course only MY opinion and others may have had different experience.
Hot water valve
ignition switch
ball joints
air compressor
rear air springs
cracked wood grain dash
door locks
lighter
SBC total failure towed in
I would have to check my records for the other failures. And this doesn't include the extremely poor service I got from Tel Aid in a collision after Katrina.
Consider if I did not have a warranty what the repair cost would be. I don't mind paying for preventative maintenance. But I really object to this much breakdown maintenance. The only reason our E500 runs as well as it does is because of the dealer service and warranty. I am sure MB paid out big $$ for the warranty claims. Perhaps building in quality to prevent breakdowns would lower warranty cost and that could pass to the customer with lower purchase cost and fewer inconvient 200 mile trips to the dealer for repairs.
I am just not impressed to pay $65,000 for a car and have this level of breakdowns. I expect better for that $$. But then that is of course only MY opinion and others may have had different experience.
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2012 C300 4Matic
Everybody does not know that the W210 is not reliable and in fact its not true at all. The W210 (2001) E320 4M that I had was just fine. The only issue I ever had with it was the replacement of 2 CATS.The secret of owning any MB is to have the maint done by a good authorized dealer. They catch stuff that could be a problem in the future. The guys who have issues are usually the ones at a bad dealership or those who are self made shade tree mechanics and are not qualfied to perform their own maint but do it anyway. Wit regard to the W211 mine is now 5 years old and other than the Command being replaced when it was one week old it has been bulletproof with absolutely no faults or warranty claims.
Also, the majority of the dealers here in the US are "shade tree mechanics". Don't you read these forums? They misdiagnose and throw parts at any "tough" problems. And the other half of the time they say that your problem "could not be duplicated". Give me a break.
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2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
I'm going to go ahead and politely disagree with every bit of this post. I had no idea that your ownership experience with one single W210 production vehicle was the basis of that models reliability. Good to know.
Also, the majority of the dealers here in the US are "shade tree mechanics". Don't you read these forums? They misdiagnose and throw parts at any "tough" problems. And the other half of the time they say that your problem "could not be duplicated". Give me a break.
Also, the majority of the dealers here in the US are "shade tree mechanics". Don't you read these forums? They misdiagnose and throw parts at any "tough" problems. And the other half of the time they say that your problem "could not be duplicated". Give me a break.
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2012 C300 4Matic
Listen, I'm sorry that you are so foolish. I'm also sorry that you lack the maturity to keep our conversation civil. You're the one who mentioned shade tree mechanics at dealerships to begin with. Get a clue what you are talking about before you start spouting off any more garbage. I'm glad your car and your friends car were reliable. The fact that you consider this a basis for ANYTHING proves that you have no idea what you are talking about and should not be making any comments.
I look forward to your next embarrassing post.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercede...ability_Issues
http://www.automobilesdeluxe.tv/the-...-w210-e-class/
By the way, we also own a W210, which we have had for over 4 years. I just don't lie to myself that a car is perfect because I own it.
I'm done with this thread. Post whatever you'd like and lie to yourself that you've come out on top
Last edited by acr2001; Nov 8, 2009 at 02:40 AM.
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2010 ML550, 2010 E350 4M, 1966 Corvette Convt C2
Listen, I'm sorry that you are so foolish. I'm also sorry that you lack the maturity to keep our conversation civil. You're the one who mentioned shade tree mechanics at dealerships to begin with. Get a clue what you are talking about before you start spouting off any more garbage. I'm glad your car and your friends car were reliable. The fact that you consider this a basis for ANYTHING proves that you have no idea what you are talking about and should not be making any comments.
I look forward to your next embarrassing post.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercede...ability_Issues
http://www.automobilesdeluxe.tv/the-...-w210-e-class/
By the way, we also own a W210, which we have had for over 4 years. I just don't lie to myself that a car is perfect because I own it.
I'm done with this thread. Post whatever you'd like and lie to yourself that you've come out on top
Yours are the embarrasing posts, you seem to disagree with every one.
Your reading comprehension needs some work
Your car was purchased used, preowned to be kind. Are you aware as to how it was driven, how it was maintained?? You are at least the second owner maybe lots more. It has to be 8 years old or more. My point is that as cars age they need more maint at more costs. They also tend to fall in the hands of shade tree mechanics to minimize maint costs which all contributes to poor reliability. You seem to be judging the fleet of W210s by yours alone plus the small group on this site. Good luck my friend and get some help with your reading comprehension.
