Kratos-TM

Bare in your view. Everyone has what options they desire the most, and though I would love to have every option in the book, I don't want to pay $130K either.... I have 10K for options, and while most would use it for the "tech", I'd prefer to use it on looks.

jayb289

K-A

I agree, you either wait or you don't.

Having driven plenty of M-B's with the laggard 7G, including a TTV8 with one, it is simply archaic and I'm certain will be a big drawback on an otherwise new S Class with lots of new tech features. Once the 2015's come out you'll likely have buyers claiming "I'm glad I waited because the difference is 'night and day'"). At the same time, Merc never got the 7G right so who's to say the 9G will be all that great, however regardless, it will have two extra gears and that has to go towards something.

.... On another point, the 7G was extremely problematic in its first several years, so if the 9G follows suit in that way, and you have early adopters reporting buggy operation, then maybe the last adopters of the 7G may have the last laugh.

LETO

Video Review by Cnet:

http://cnettv.cnet.com/8301-34133_53...rs-episode-24/

cookstar

cookstar

K-A

This interior is precisely what I was talking about in the interior-discussion related thread. It looks nothing like those insanely gussied up interiors M-B marketing keeps showing. To me it looks even kind of uneventful, spartan and bland, namely that lower center console area (although the seats are still very nice), the antithesis to young blooded or sporty yet not overwhelmingly rich (I don't even think the headliner has alcantara? You can also make out some standard-grade M-B plastics in many of the closeups). This is what most U.S W222's will have and there's no way anyone can objectively compare it to the fluff and overzealous luxury appearance and seemingly tactile feel of a proper Rolls or Bentley interior.

For the W222 interior to impress like it does to many here via the press-pics, it seems like it's gonna need a good chunk of extra $$$$ thrown at it.

cookstar

Phantom is on average $400,000+, the overall quality of the vehicle is not $300,000 better than a S-class, I would say 20 grand difference in quality and allot of the components in the 2013 Phantom are off the current gen 7-series. Rolls Royce is also not an every day vehicle I would park at my local 7/11. I would have no problem parking an S-class though. Your comment on most S-classes being equipped is correct but based on who buys what package, its not like MB forces you to buy the standard vehicle.

K-A

I agree, however in that respect I find a Phantom to have even less of a valid $350,000 better premium than an E Class or 5 Series interior, for example. Fact is RR/Bentleys are the furthest from worthily priced based on fundamentals, nor is any car that's THAT highly priced, one can argue, however many have been getting way ahead of themselves in stating that an S Class interior can compete with them in full blown perceived luxury, which you can see from that CNET reviews packaged W222 interior is furthest from the case. It looks like a proper evolution of the W221 interior, just like any proper new model would from its previous model.

However, indeed, M-B does allow you to "dress it up" much higher than any S Class before it, much more so than you could the W221, so in that aspect yes the potential for it does take the S to new grounds, but the fundamental basis doesn't, aside from simply being a new model evolution, IMO.

LETO

I am sorry but i don't get the point you are trying to make. You answer your own critique stating that the options do exist to take the interior to new grounds.

Having gone through the order guide. The Cnet car has Nappa leather in it. The premium Nappa gives you the quilted seats, quilted dash, better headliner and more wood. More wood being a requisite for premium nappa. Deseigno just takes the texture of the leather to a higher grade.

The cnet car has a rather boring black, black, black wood interior. At the same point, a two tone black brown would make the same interior stand out more.

K-A

Lots of M-B enthusiasts are attempting to paint the W222 as something of an RR/Bentley competitor in superfluous perceived luxury (materials, finish, etc.). My point here is that although you can spec a W222 to get higher grade than you could previously, the inherent design and nature is clearly not up to that uber-uber-luxury spec. The interior combo in that video like you said is very basic, but is also probably going to be one of the more common ones which IMO is even less of an argument from the "W222 has moved up a class in interior" perspective as it really looks kind of appropriately S-Class in the historical sense (naturally evolved), with visible plastics and flat surfaces that you'd never find on an RR/Bentley (many of those mass-market plastics are there even with the optional packages which mostly affects the leather surfaces).

Yes, of course it's still very nice looking and certainly will be all kinds of comfortable, but I think lots of people haven't really noticed basic-spec W222 interiors through the plethora of highly digitized, airbrushed and extremely well-equipped W222 setups, based on comments about its potential comparison to more highly priced "exotic" Luxury cars.

LETO

You are speculating to the point of wasting your energy based on youtube videos and other journalist opinions. Your arguments overall still fail to make any reasonable valid argument.

Was this car a consideration that you have decided not to order based upon all your various opinions regarding it?

K-A

You must have missed the plethora of "Is the W222 interior comparable to a Rolls or Bentley" debates that have been going on.

My point is that video with one of the rare glimpses of an un-airbrushed, un-marketing promo, un-highly-optioned W222 interior shows that it simply is not. Not that it should be any surprise considering it costs over 3 times less, but the questions and comparisons have been made time and time again, and one needs to go no further than an example of a basic-spec (which will dominate the W222 orders on dealer lots, no doubt) W222 to realize the answer.

Maybe I posted that impression from the video in the wrong thread as now that I started searching around I realize the discussion/debate was going on in the Quattroporte thread. A quick glimpse there and you'll see what this is about.

LETO

K-A: I don't care to go digging through the Quattroporte thread as I could care less about comparing this car to a Rolls or a Bentley. I hopped back into this forum to look up new info that others seem to gather and post regarding this new model from the web.

Was this car a consideration that you have decided not to order due to what you perceive are it's various design, quality and engineering shortcomings that you cite?

K-A

Welcome to car forums, opinions galore. On a forum dedicated to a model where all the information hasn't changed for months and you have a post a week, opinions and speculation, from lovers and haters alike make for what should be a challenging if not lively if not entertaining discussion (believe it or not, info can be attained when any discussion is actually based on the subject at hand and not the characters behind the opinions regarding said subject). The interior subject is one that has been a hot topic regarding the S, specifically compared to those particular cars.

Is this car a consideration that you have decided you're struggling with going through due to my perceptions about its various design, quality and engineering shortcomings?

LETO

My order was in the day the order guide came out. Assuming a 100-105K base price, I am Prepared for a $115-$120K car.

I have personally never been swayed by a car forum regarding purchasing decisions. I fail to receive any useful information from the what people perceive an interior is like based upon what they see on the web.

Now your turn to answer my question:

Wolfman

K-A is clearly not an S-Class buyer; besides his musings about MB's design his opinions show a typical disregard for the features that make people buy an S-class in the first place.

Give this man a inline six with an 8 speed ZF tranny and spring suspension and he is good to go

K-A

Whether I'm a buyer or not has nothing to do with me pointing out how far the W222 interior is from a Rolls Ghost or the like, especially now that the CNET video revealed how the typical W222 interior will look. No, I'm essentially not looking for a backseat limo with all this space and a ride focused purely on isolating luxury with a boat like nature (and I feel far too young for one).

As for your last line, yes indeed.

But any car is on my radar to buy, be in within a chosen spending budget. If not today, then tomorrow. An S Class after a year or two (by the time it gets the 9G) with a starting price of $105-ishK will doubtlessly start to get M-B's now characteristic 15-20+% price slashing's (SL already gets it, CLS already gets it, E Class has been getting it for some time) which puts it in a pretty attainable range for someone who'e looking for something just under the triple digit range.

Germancar1

What makes the interior of a Ghost so much more than an S-Class? Dying to hear....


M

K-A

Materials, design. Look at the S interior in the CNET video, it looks almost spartan and basic. They do plenty of closeups showing standard M-B grade plastics and if it's anything like the W221 then a lot of the "leather" surfaces used may actually be MB Tex. Look closely at the lower center console, it looks pretty plain around there.

The interior simply doesn't have that overblown-luxury vibe that is designed to attack all senses like that of a Ghost or the like, namely in basic spec trim. It doesn't have that "exclusive craftsmanship" vibe. It's great for its sector, no doubt, but I think people got way ahead of themselves in thinking it can compete with a Ghost, or Bentley.

LETO

But any car is on my radar to buy, be in within a chosen spending budget. If not today, then tomorrow. An S Class after a year or two (by the time it gets the 9G) with a starting price of $105-ishK will doubtlessly start to get M-B's now characteristic 15-20+% price slashing's (SL already gets it, CLS already gets it, E Class has been getting it for some time) which puts it in a pretty attainable range for someone who'e looking for something just under the triple digit range.[/QUOTE]

KA: You still don't answer my question clearly like I did yours

All you state that is you would be happy with a bargain with an S down the road. That is if you don't talk your self out using the facelift as an excuse or the upcoming 7 series.

Again:

Was this car a consideration that you have decided not to order due to what you perceive are it's various design, quality and engineering shortcomings that you cite?

K-A

I stated that I'd be happy with an S Class I deem of value down the road if I didn't "perceive it to have various design, quality and engineering shortcomings"

For the record I don't recall criticizing quality shortcomings or engineering shortcomings if you take out of account personal preferences perhaps. I still don't see what that has to do with the discussion about the W222 interior and how far or close it may be to a Rolls Ghost or Bentley Continentals interior.

LETO

KA- Having an order in myself, I am more likely to want to know of opinions of other fellow buyers.

Having had multiple MB's at launch there is valid info that pops up as the excitement builds. Often there are questions about things that are misunderstood about packages. New reviews that pop up, videos, pics.

This is why I returned to this forum after about 2 years since the last CLS came out. If I remember you were out in the E class forum at that time complaining about the new E that you then ended up getting. Most of your points were pretty much the same regarding design.

Anyhow it is sad to see that this entire forum has been take over by two topics:

1. comparing the interior of the W222 to cars that are in a higher segment. I am sure people in the equus (if that is how it is spelled) forum compare that car to the W222 and how it's interior is supposedly better and so on. All pointless stuff. People who can afford an S don't buy a Hyundai as much as people who can afford a Rolls don't buy an S or a 7.

2. The lack of a 9speed gearbox. A more valid argument.

The horse is so dead that it is being served on the dollar menu down the road for $.99 as a cheese burger.

K-A

For the record I'd say you're looking at a very small percentage of actual likely buyers on this very small thus far forum, even taking myself out of the equation.

Germancar1

So in other words nothing. The S550 used was all Black inside right? A Ghost would look the same way. Do you think there is MB Tex is a U.S. market S-Class? Really, think about that. Design? The Bentley's are far from anything dramatic. The Rolls has that old-school design which works, but Bentley? There is nothing unique about the FS or CGT design.

So far you haven't given anything specific, only saying "look at it". The press has clearly stated that this S-Class can compete with Bentley and Rolls in the interior department. They've been in the car, you haven't. Until I get to see it for myself I think I'll go with that.

That said, compete with isn't the same thing as being = to or better. Keep that in mind.


The thing that you and others fall for for Bentley and Rolls is the stuffed seats and the size of their seats, makes a big difference vs regular cars and it adds to the perception of a Rolls or Bentley being this overbuild machine. Unless you're talking about a Phantom, Wraith or Mulsanne the S-Class is at the very least in the same universe as the Ghost or CGT or Flying Spur IMO and more than one reviewer has said this so far.

To think we're only talking about the S550 so far, not the eventual S600 and S65 AMG models.

M