bmms8

well, you do understand they can kick you out...and anyways, why are you here....you already made fun of one moderator...accord, so he can kick you out if he wants

JFawwaz

I just mean that german tuners kick up the prices because they know that the MB buyers can afford it.

Dont get me, or anyone else here, wrong because i love lexus cars. one of my very good friends has a GS400 and it is so smooth and quick. i would buy one but i dont really need an extra car right now

lex400sc

Well I don't know the rules here, so I apologize if I broke some already and offended anyone. They can kick me off if they want, but understand that I am just here to defend Lexus from all the unfair, slanted, biased statements that are being flung left and right. I serve to inform, go ahead and ban me if you just want to hear a one-sided discussion on how much better Mercedes is from Lexus and how Lexus is just some poor-man's Benz. I am not here to flame or make fun of Mercedes owners. I'll tone it down a bit. I was just very heated after reading about 20 pages of anti-Lexus commentary and had some stuff to get off my chest.

bmms8

lol, dude, i dont know if you read all the other pages, but i was the one who was defending lexus....alright...i dont understand why you keep on arguing with me...

JFawwaz

its all good man.. noone will ban you. everyone is entiltled to their opinions and you were just sharing yours.

and us mercedes benz owners are just like everyone else. just because one mb buys says lexus sucks, doesnt mean that all of us are like that.

lex400sc

I'm not arguing with you. At least I wasn't trying to. I simply asked where you got the fact that German parts cost more than Japanese parts? Especially since all the aftermarket companies are based in the United States No hard feelings though.

bmms8

no problem

bmms8

i cant get a avatar for some reason, so ill just do this..if some one can help me wiht one though...i went under edit toptions, and tried to get one, but it always said they were to big..

Accord

That is a ridiculous claim. We only ban people for extremely seious offenses, such as spamming every forum with hardcore pornography or selling cocaine in the classifieds forum.

We do not ban people for having opinions (Unlike another forum).

lexsc400, you have not violated any rules, bmms8 doesn't know what he was talking about.

Anyways, back on topic...

VVT-i

O.K, guys, I'm new in MB, but I'm not here to flame anyone. I think everybody has their own opinion, taste and choice to choose the car they wanted to buy. I think the MB is a well bluid car and MB had set the standard of luxury car in the past. The MB has a long history compare to 12 years of Lexus.
Back in 1989 when Lexus introduced the 1st LS400, it was the wake up call in automotive industrial including MB, BMW and Jac. After 6 years, 1,400 engineers and a thousand of phototypes, finally Lexus launch the LS. It's a dream for Lexus's engineer and designers to try to catch up with MB and BMW in the luxury market. As long as MB still in front, guess what, Lexus will try to catch up. That will make both car companies alway come out with a better car and that a big advantage for the consumers.
Can we all just get along. Just like Jim and One Time at Band Camp.

vraa

cocaine? WHERE?? lol

yipikaye

hey Musfather, have you decide which car do you want to get??? I am sorry if This question has been answered, I did not read all the replies, because the replies are wayyyyyyyyyyyy too long.
thanks

KrispyK

I am currently grappling with the exact question posed by this threat. My siblings and I are trying to decide whether to get our parents a 745i, an LS430 or an S500. Between us all, we have about $45k to spend, but we intend to finance quite a bit to get the car we want. As a result, we went test driving and had the privilege of driving each car; in addition, I rented a Mercury Grand Marquis (on vacation) and drove my friend's new E46 M3 (both cars served as excellent benchmarks for the wide-range of available cars.)

To begin with, none of these cars handle as well as the M3. Nor do any of them handle even remotely like the big boat the Grand Marquis is (can you say "nauseating?" Have they changed this car ANY since the '83 Town Car my dad had? It feels exactly the same!) But each car (LS430, S500, 745i) had its strengths and weaknesses. ADmittedly, the 7-series was more like the M3 than the rest, and the LS430 was more like the Grand Marquis than the rest, but in the end, these three cars were more alike than different compared to other cars.

The LS430 was the king of comfort in the group. It's more isolated on the inside than the Grand Marquis, yet manages to handle very competently. You don't get the road feel that you'll get in a 745i, and it's not nearly as confidence inspiring, but when you're purchasing a car for very conservative parents that are pushing 60, I don't think this is a huge issue. The interior is perhaps the most comfortable car I've ever been in, and you feel like a king sitting inside. The interior feels polished, and everything is very simple, and self-explanatory. Nav system was wonderful, and the MArk Levinson stereo awesome. The car was so quiet you can't tell whether the engine is on until you take a look at the tachometer. But it must be noted that the car took corners fairly well, and could take just about anything you threw at it ... it just didn't feel right though, because you wouldn't expect the car to be able to handle it.

The 745i was the most sporty of the three. It didn't have quite the isolation the LS430 did, but it still drove smooth, and was sitll very quiet inside. The steering didn't track-center as well as the LS430 (Surprisingly!) but the overall performance was astounding. Our dealer did a few "donuts" in the local parking lot to show us how well the DSC kept the car on track (an old Grand National saw the salesman doing these donuts and decided to join us -- and nearly hit a light post. The Bimmer stayed true, and enver spun out.) The i-Drive was somewhat confusing, and I'm concerned about my not-so-tech-savvy parents using it. Even I don't think I'd be inclined to go through all the menus, etc., to change some simple settings. Having said that, the auto-hold parking brakes were perhaps the best invention I could imagine. I wish all cars had that feature!

The S500 was the "compromise" car. Felt the largest of the bunch (probably was) and was more confidence inspiring than the LS430, but not up to the level of the 7-series. In the end, the MB produced the best "compromise" of the three cars. Handled quite well (dealer kept pushing us to drive it hard through S-curves (no pun intended), and we did.) Very quiet inside, but didn't try the COMAND system at all.

In the end, all three are very competent cars. And in the end, very very similar. I know, the purists will all argue that the MB is better somehow, or the Lexus rules, but if you compare these cars against an M3 or a Grand Marquis, they are remarkably similar. Just different takes on the luxury equation -- Lexus is more isolated, the Bimmer is more sporty, and the MB takes the best of both worlds. All three handle well, and all three are very quiet, and luxurious inside. IN the end, it's your personal preference.

In the end, we've decided to pick up a slightly used '00 S500. The ones in the Bay Area are in incredible shape, with low-mileage, and we can get it for about $5k more than a new LS430. Since all three were such competent cars, we made the choice based on the fact that MB probably has the most prestige of the bunch. I know, I know, not on the car itself, but the aura of the marque. (I own an E430 right now ... so I am biased in this regard.)

All fine cars in conclusion. No need to sit aorund bickering -- test drive 'em and see what you like!

lex400sc

Personally, I think your parents would have enjoyed the Lexus much better. Fewer problems, quieter, it is actually more spacious than the S-class (cabin and trunk), smoothest ride, safest car, just as fast, and very user friendly. Plus it would have cost you a lot less than the exact same Benz, which is an important factor since you're financing. Now before all you Benzo guys jump on me, what I'm trying to say is the Lexus is more of an older man's car compared to the Bimmer and Benz. And I doubt your 60-year-old parents case too much about name-brand prestige or whichever car makes them look hipper than the other 60-year-olds so that point was pretty moot. My parting words are that you shouldn't have excluded the Inifiniti Q45 from the line-up.

JFawwaz

i agree. i wouldve gotten the lexus.

first of all, you guys were a little short on cash. your parents werent into technology so they wouldve likes the simple design of lexus and the reliablility as well.

KrispyK

Well, you folks all make good points. As for being short on cash, we're short on cash no matter which car. Further, as for the "prestige" issue, I'd rather not have mom and dad feel as if they didn't get the "right" car at the country club. Nevertheless, additional considerations have crept into decision, and I think my siblings and I need to have another conference before we come to a true final decision.

The Mercedes is becoming just too much money. We'll be paying nearly $10k more for a used '00 S-class than a brand-new '03 LS430. Furthermore, I've read a lot about the '00 S-class being less than reliable. If we're "gifting" a car to our parents, we're thinking that we really should get them a new car. AT the same time, the brand "prestige" of the S500 is making me really want that car instead. So we're stuck. My brothers seem to be thinking the LS430, and are making some excellent arguments for it.

But as for the question posed by the thread -- I think each car is excellent in its own regard. In the end, our decision is hinging around issues such as pricing and prestige of the marque. Is the LS430 the equivalent of an S600? Probably not, but at the same time, you pay about half the price. Is it the same as an S500? From my own test drives, I think they're very equivalent cars, just different finishing details. As for the 745i, I don't think the car's comfortable enough for the 'rents. At any rate, all excellent cars, and I wish all of my difficult choices would result in such wonderful results!

Accord

KrispyK, if you can find a used 2001 or 2002 S500, definetly go for that. However, I would highly reccomend that you stay away from the 2000 model year S-Class. They had a lot of problems with the S-Class that year, every single problem was worked out in the 2001 model year, so if you can, try and find a 2001 or 2002. If you have to, sacrifice the 2000 S500 for a 2002 S430. The difference between the S430 and S500 isn't very much at all, just a mere 15 or so horsepower. Definetly go for the latter in the model year, and if it ends up being too much for a 2001 or 2002 S500, then go for a S430 instead.

Toog4me

Um, the power may only be 15 hp, but what about all the features? Load that thing to the amount of the LS430, and you've still got a car that is a lot more expensive than the LS430, it's slower, and again, it's not as reliable as the LS.

You said you wanted something reliable. Nothing is more reliable than a 2002 LS430 gift rapped in a red ribbon in your 'rent's driveway! Do the right thing!

Accord

Yes, it is more expensive, but you're buying a Mercedes-Benz, not an expensive Toyota.

The S-Class also looks a lot better than the LS430, infact you cannot even compare the looks of both cars. The S-Class is sleak, sexy, and aggressive looking at the same time. I can't say any of that about the LS430, nor can I imagine anyone saying the same about an LS430.

Accord

Read this post: https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...240#post128240

Point #2 by "The German" pretty much sums it up.

Toog4me

That's the best quote for one reason:

If Lexus copied Mercedes Benz, than then they did one hell of a job! In fact, they did a better job than MB. More features, better reliability, better performance, and a hell of a lot cheaper. Seriously!!!

bmms8

we drove the e320 and s430 today...even though we got a 2003 e500...the e320 was alright.....nothing special at all...only material, looks and stuff.....the engine stress was way to much for us...on the other hand the 430 was pretty quiet...i hope the e500 will have less stress....the only bad thing on the 430 was the bad materials....everything was loose, and cheap plastic..

Toog4me

I seriously thought you were a good guy. I thought you were not the typical MB owner and knew stuff about cars. Abviosuly, after reading every post here, you still don't know ****.

An expensive Toyota? Is that supposed to mean something? A MB is just an expensive Chrysler, believe it or not. I can see the lines of the PT on many MB cars.

BTW- didnt the 318ti come out before the C230 Coupe? Yeah, thought so... looks like MB copied BMW... hmm, interesting, no?

Your seriously one stuck up snobby assed, rich kid who doesnt know ****. I'm sure your "Check Engine" light is on but you don't care because your car is so great.


And again, I know so many people who agree that the LS430 is stunning.

Another BTW- The LS400 was the first round flagship car in the 1990s... what do you know? Mercedes Benz changed the box on wheels S and E class and made them both more round... who copied who here?????????????????

Accord

I guess I will have to re-explain everything I stated throughout this entire thread to you .

More features? You must not have seen the 2003 S-Class .

Better reliability? In the numerous Mercedes-Benz vehicles we have owned, we have had not one serious problem. We did get an early model year car which had a lot of problems, which was REPLACED at NO CHARGE by the dealership.

Cheaper? Well, duh! Any Toyota will be cheaper than a Mercedes-Benz equivelant. This is just common sense.

Toog4me

It's commen sence to dumb people like you who dont know **** about cars. You were comparing the LS430 to the S430. So was I, in this case, the LS430 wins.

And where not in 2003 yet. Wait for the 2004 (due to release in 2003) GS and LS... You'll be surprised.