Sgt. Schultz

I see mine are notably milked over behind the projector lens and have had good (very good!) results in de-fogging previous car's projectors. Makes the car look new!

Any insight appreciated - I've yet to prod around in there to see what's involved as I just got the car.

TIA.

benzdreams9

yea, i wanna know on this too!

Sgt. Schultz

Here's pics for reference - I did this to my former //S8 and the difference is shocking:




It's amazing the difference a simple 2sec wipe of the lens makes! Just a matter of access 8-/...

Bueller?

Sgt. Schultz

Bueller?

Nobody has any headlight removal tips??? I'm sure I can figure it out but knowing any secret handshakes going into it is always ideal.

Anyone?

cmpcpro

It seems like there is alot of information about this car that nobody knows or cares to share.. If I knew I would tell you.. the BMW guys know every end of their vehicles inside and out..

Sgt. Schultz

I've only been here a few weeks and have been getting that unfortunate impression. If I'd posted about a booming stereo or blingy wheel maybe I'd garner more response 8-)?

Coming from hugely active Porsche/Audi forums with invaluable resoursefullness and amazing community camaraderie, this is a bit of a change for me.

I'd found MercedesShop.com very helpful yearseses ago for my 2.3-16, guess I'll have to further search there. Shame...

02S430

what are you looking to do? remove the headlights from the car or the lens from the headlights?

Sgt. Schultz

YES!

8-)

I believe you need do to one to do the other... just trying to clean the back of the projectors...

02S430

the headlight is held in by two screws, one on top and one on the bottom. bumper is held on by a 10mm bolt, headlight will pull straight out once all is removed, once you look closely at the headlights you will see the tabs and it will make sense.

02S430

the lens are held in by torq screws and have a similar box frame as the pictures you posted, so they must come out the same never took them out but you have made me wanna clean mine too

Sgt. Schultz

Thanks for that detail, I appreciate it.

Hoped to hear what you said about it prob being similar guts method. I know what you're saying about seeing it / will make sense.

Hope I can translate that bumper part - only one bolt or 1/side? Where they at? Whole bumper cover has to come off to pop a headlight? Seems odd, but...

The gain is inspiring huh? It makes such a huge impact looking at the car - with AND without lights lit. If yours are foggy behind you'll be astounded how much more biatchin the car looks w/ them clear - with the side benny of somewhat improved output.

When I tackle it I'll take pics and share I guess...

Skylaw

Look at the marketing of the different brands. BMW, "The ultimate driving machine." Porsche certainly takes a similar stance. As for Audi, I drove them for 20 years, and you'd better have known how to fix them because they broke down so often (fortunately by the '00 model year, things had improved). Nonetheless, the marketing is directed toward "driving enthusiasts."

Mercedes markets the S-Class as a luxury sedan. It is a very different marketing demographic. I suspect that most of the folks who drive them, at least when newer, are satisfied with the cars stock, and have the $$ to turn them over to the dealers, and expect to have the car returned in perfect working order. They simply lack the time, or don't want to turn wrenches in their garages.

The trend I see with the W220 is that as it ages, it is bought by younger drivers with less money than the original owners - and they want to alter it (in my personal view, especially in some of the mods I have seen here, in some unseemly ways). They want to lower it, bling it up, tune it for "performance" rather than luxury. It can be done, of course - and many who would do this want to do much of the work as DIY. With respect to the W220, this is a fairly recent trend.

It is going to take the willingness of folks like cmpcpro to document their knowledge for the rest of the folks, or it just won't happen. And cmpcpro does document what he learns, which is great.

As a moderator on several W220 forums, I often saw requests for more DIY. When I had a break from the grindstone, I put together the W220 S-Class Encyclopedia - a collection of the best stuff I saw from members, related to some of the most frequent problems with the W220. Often, it involves troubleshooting and problem identification - but is lighter than I'd like for the "How-tos" of DIY repair. However I am not an MB tech, and I lack the expertise (and frankly, the desire) to produce a comprehensive DIY manual myself. I am happy to include DIYs in the Encyclopedia when others contribute good ones (and I do update the Encyclopedia every so often).

Sgt. Schultz, while it probably won't fill all of your needs, you might check out the Encyclopedia at http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w220...tart-here.html or at http://www.mbca.org/forum/w220-s-cla...dia-start-here. I used to post it and keep it updated here as well, but too many folks would not respect it as a reference tool, and kept treating it as a discussion forum, which made it impossible to use for research. At least on BW and on MBCA, I can lock the threads and prevent that. BTW, it has a link to many threads on headlight unit removal/replacement, and no, you don't have to remove the bumper.

I have written up and photographed many projects of my own that were not "stock." They dealt mainly with electronic components - How to circumvent the requirement to use an MB-branded plug-in phone with the earlier W220s. How to upgrade the voice control module, after being told it couldn't be done. How to add Bluetooth capability without replacing the entire MB phone system (something dealers used to tell people they'd have to do). How to integrate iPod capability when dealers said it couldn't be done. These were mainly things that allowed the older cars to be adapted to newer technology and features - not to remake the car. Cmpcpro, I see you doing the same kind of thing, having documented your COMAND swap-out so nicely. If we (and a few others) weren't doing it, the forums wouldn't have that either.

But that's what it is going to take -- work. We have the ownership demographics we have. The dealer techs have little incentive to write up the "how-tos" and take bread from their mouths.

And, at least for stock repairs, no one has to write a comprehensive DIY manual. MB offers its entire shop manual, including the step-by-step, online. An annual subscription is hefty, but if you know what the problem is, you can subscribe for one day, and download everything you ever wanted to know about making the repair. That is DIY info that's tough to beat. http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/home.jsp - and there is also the Electronic Parts Catalog, the EPC http://epc.startekinfo.com/epc/welcome.jsp with exploded diagrams and parts numbers. It is free, but you'll need a credit card to register.

Many W220 problems require electronic diagnosis, and MB has built the car to permit that. However, Star Diagnostic computers and the software don't come cheap, and OBDII scanners just don't fill the bill completely enough (though they can help).

I tend to agree with Sgt. Schultz about the emphasis on booming stereos and bling on this forum. That is an unfortunate turn. I used to play on MBWorld more, but don't so much - and that's why. I participate more on BenzWorld, in which there is less of that. About two years ago, there were many acrimonious debates between folks who liked their cars stock, and modders (especially those dealing with appearance and audio). As things have developed, the "stock" folks have stayed mainly with BenzWorld, and the "modders" have tended more to play here. The "stock" folks seem to me to be more interested in how to fix what they have, and the "modders" more interested in changing it to something else. I'm not saying that is wrong - but my personal interests lie more with "stock."

It is perhaps not relevant to the W220 owners - but the BW R/C107 forum is every bit what both of you seem to miss from the BMW and Porsche/Audi forums. Lots of folks who (frequently of necessity) do their own work and document it - and the camaraderie is just tremendous. Lots of DIY, from folks who really know their cars (because few techs do, any more). Without that forum, I probably would never have bought my 450SL, and certainly wouldn't still have it. I would love to see that kind of camaraderie develop on any of the W220 forums.

I came across one forum recently - haven't really explored it, but it seems to try to position itself as more technical - http://mercedesrepair.forumotion.com/ - see what you think, and let us know.

Sgt. Schultz

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll def check out your suggested forums, hoping for more of what you quantified.

FWIW the first thing I did after my car was finalized while I awaited transit was surf thru a bunch of your DIY sticky post - and - was floored @ the ignorance with folks responding repeatedly... painful.

Though I'll firmly say that 'modding' does not have to be a BLACK / WHITE debate - when done tastefully I'm alllllllllll for making things better. Problem is taste obviously differs, and the price point these things have gotten to have many purchasing them for the 'air' or the 'look' which tends to gravitate hand/hand to bling. Not my cuppatea certainly, but I'm all for looking more smart and being faster. Certainly.

I 100000% agree about needing a forum to own the types of heaps I'm drawn to - I'd have never bought / sold off each and every one of my former hoors out of frustration / expense if not for the camaraderie which CAN exist.

Now to find it or better like you said MAKE IT.

I'd suggest folks maybe start by putting their name in their sig so I don't have to refer to you as Mr. Screenname when I reply with thanks! 8-)

Back to topic, the way the flash reflects off the lenses in this pic would def change w/ the proposed lens wipeage - the schmutz must go!:

Skylaw

Not a bad idea.

Das Geld 2

I have the same problem, Chris if you find out how to do this, let me know.

MB-Dude

OK, Paul (Sgt. Schultz)... saw the pics and am impressed with the results. Any wink-wink-nod-nod-secret-handshake-silly-walk sort gyrations one needs to go through to get the lens' out? Read the posts here and I think I have the basic concept down - 3 bolts (one top, one bottom, one bumper) and a couple tabs. Am I missing anything here, buddy? Seems too simple for an MB Engineer to design.
Cheers,
Jeff
BTW - Do the lamps have to be realigned after the work?

DRTYLNDY

Hey Paul.
So I am a bit confused about this light fogging thing on the inside of the light itself. Is it really fogging from the inside?
I also was not happy with my headlights on my S55 the other day so I tried something new that was NOT GOOD. I have been wet sanding and buffing my car to make it shiny and new looking and the results were fantastic so I decided to try buffing my lights with my paint wheel and it was a bad bad mistake.
At first they started to look great and then all of the sudden I saw a puff of smoke and I said to myself WTF? Looked under the buffer and I had burned a nickle sized spot on the lens. I tried cleaning up the burn mark but ended up only doubling the size of the burn mark! I was so pissed with myself I just stopped and left it alone for a day or so to think about what I had just done.
So what I decided to do at this point is wet sand the burn marks with 400 grit WET sandpaper and then 600,800, 2500 and finally 3000. Then I got a headlight polishing wheel and sealer and went to town. Well guess what the burn marks are gone and my headlights look shiny, new and fantastic again.
Good luck with the lights man.
Moral of the story don't F up like I did.
Johan

Sgt. Schultz

Hey Johan... heh, yes, yes it is - see here (fogs on flat backside of projector lens):

"It's amazing the difference a simple 2sec wipe of the lens makes! Just a matter of access"


Now, fogginess aside Johan... I must thank you for sharing your burn-hole story with us!

Rest at ease with the solstice that something like ^that^ seems like a page torn straight out of the Book of Paul, and my Fecal Touch. "Hey, I'll just polish 'em up!"...

...d'oh!

Famous last words, like the last words of a Redneck "Hey! Check THIS out!"...

more d'oh

Bet yer lights look purty now tho 8-)

Sir Jeffries-

amen, the difference is amazing and well worth the effort

when I did my //S8 I did not need to realign, as at least in that application the projectors remove w/o fudging with any of the adjusters - they just hard mount on posts

now... moi?

???

I got about as far as well nowhere on this endeavor (much like that Sat-ectomy initiative ha)... life @$$plodes in Q4 so I'm literally just removing my head from a tornado. Oy.

I've not yet found a good (hand holding) how-to-remove-headlight (w/o bumper cover - it can be done I'm seeing?).

Bueller?

Would make a great endo'winter / hellospring projekt...

Good luck to youses, Johan / Jeff... say, howabouts one yous tell me how to pull a light and we'll go from there! 8-)

MB-Dude

I'm off to the dealer today to get a ton of technical info (no one answered my questions in other posts... [sigh]). Will add the procedure for Open Headlamp Surgery to the list. Will attempt this weekend and will document procedure, noting any wink-wink-nod-nod-etc-etc issues.
Cheers,
Jeff

Sgt. Schultz

exxxxxxxxxxxxxxxcellent - THANKS!

I'd be happy to dive in, de-fog, and offer the details / findings - if someone could give a quick how-to-headlight-removal

haoz129

Jeff and Paul,

Not sure what the cause of the fog built up behind your lens. Is it wet or moistrue ? If so here is my experience.
I washed the car when it is very hot one day. Then I found I got a foggy eye on the left. I am too lazy to take it off. I think it is only water inside I could ask my vacuum to take them out.
First I heat the lamp up to make sure most of the water vaporized;
Second I remove bulb on both end;
Third I put my vacuum hose on one side of the bulb hole.
Keep the vaccum running then all the fog come out. Every single bit of water was taken away by the air.

Two things I learned:
Don't wash the lens when it is hot.
If hand can't squeeze in, let the air do the work.

In case the foggy/wear is on outside of the lens then no need to remove it either. Headlight polishing or some tint film will do the work.

Thanks.

Howard

RedC320S

Paul aka Sgt Schultz. I have had one of my headlight assemblies replaced because of a gate failure. Looking at the removed assembly, the clear outside lens is glued/bonded to the black body. I do no see any way of getting at the projector lens without destroying the outside lens. There is no entry from the back either. Hope this helps

Mike

Sgt. Schultz

Thanks for that insight Mike.

On the Audi, the lenses are similarly bonded - you can see it on the floor in one of the pics, you just gently pry from one side and it peels off.

Question is... does reinstall then expose you to potential lens condensation (phenomena Howard notes above)? Dunno. Was fine on my Audi, just reinstalled lens... but those are double redundant - adhesive and clips, so the clips apply pressure to promote re-bonding of the glue (of sorts).

On the Audi tho, lens removal was only done as I was smashing out the built-in yellow corner reflectors 8-)... those boxes afforded projector removal thru the back housing:



Howard, it's the inner projector lense in question that is fogged - not the outer headlight lens... 2 different phenomena.

Once I figure out the unit removal I'll chew on if it's worth proceeding...

Sgt. Schultz

2 different phenomena, Howard - this is fog (schmutz) behind the inner projector lens, yours is condensation inside the outer main lens.

Thanks for that insight Mike, once I figure out to remove the unit I will determine if it's worth proceeding.

On the Audi's, the outer lens is bonded on w/ adhesive, you can gently peel them off (you can see the lens on the floor in one of the above pics.

They are installed double rendundant tho, clips ensure pressure is retained to the glue so that they re-bond (of sorts) when removed / reinstalled.

Question is, is it worth disrupting the seal an potentially opening yourself to future outer lens condensation issues? Was not a problem on my Audi, but it's a gamble I suppose nonetheless.

And on the Audi, outer lens removal was only a consequence of my looking to smash out the yellow corner reflectors, those housings afforded projector removal from the rear:

haoz129

Got it, man.